Kimber 82G barrel quality....

D

Deke

Guest
how good is it?

First, a disclaimer...I am not an experienced BR shooter, as many of you are, but I am intrigued by the potential for rimfire accuracy.

I have searched several rimfire forums and have gotten conflicting opinions (not necessarily facts) on how good the Kimber 82G factory barrel is. Since KofO is long out of business, I guess we'll never know for sure from whom Kimber got its barrels or what quality they ordered.

Since the Army contract accuracy spec was .7" @ 50yds, are we safe in assuming these aren't match barrels? One poster in a Kimber 82G thread said they are "$7 pieces of junk." Another said they have "match chambers." I've read that some of you have 82G barrels stamped with a "star" that presumably indicates enhanced accuracy. I'm confused. Here's why:

I have been unable to get consistent accuracy from my 82G barrel. I have a high quality set-up....Fudd front rest and expensive Protektor rear bag with heavy sand. The glass is a T-36. Oh, and I have a nemohunter trigger job and it's set at about 6 oz. The gun is not pillar or glass-bedded, however.

Some range sessions have me very encouraged....5-shot groups measuring in the high-teens/low 2s measured CTC. Other sessions with similar weather conditions and ammo are over half an inch with an occasional really bad flier. Typically, my barrel takes several shots to warm up and foul up before groups tighten. How about yours?

Today, I had another one of those confusing sessions. Started with a clean gun. I warmed the barrel up with Wolf ME and SK Match...about 10 shots in approximately .5". I followed that with two 5-shot groups using Ely Black Box and Ely Tenex. Both groups were in the 2s, CTC. Then all hell broke loose. Using all of the aforementioned ammo, she just wouldn't group under .5"...after the initial 25 shots fired. The weather hadn't changed. I ran a dry patch through the bore, groups tightened a little but not much. I got frustrated and quit.

I'd love to hear your experiences. I'm at the point where I'm considering rebarreling with a match barrel, knowing that this will never be a hard-core BR gun, but I'd sure like a consistently good shooter. Rebarreling would essentially double my $700 investment in the gun (less scope and rings). Is it worth it? Have any of you done it? If so, how much of a difference did it make?

Thanks for listening to my rant.
 
are you shooting over flags? have you made sure the barrel is completely floated. the 2 I have experience with have been bedded and have tuners and are fairly accurate. these seem to like eley match in the 1065 range. take the hand stop rail and reverse it, countersink and re-install flat side outward it will ride the bags far better. the bottom of the stock will be flat. that .700 grouping at 50 yards is a 10 shot group. prety tough in the 80's. the .300 grouping was 5 shots. that kimber star grade price was $575 a considerable amount for that time.
 
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Well for one thing, you are IMHO asking for trouble with the alternative brand warm up. Clean the gun completely, throat and all, then stick with the ELEY.
 
Kimber of Oregon used Wilson barrels

I had several including some Custom Matches and Super Americas' back in the 80s. My dad visited the factory in Oregon. They were nice and showed him around. I had noticed on my Kimbers that there was damage to the rifling lands about 3/8 inch from the muzzle. I had him ask them about this. They were surprised and said it was a pilot they inserted into the muzzle to spin the barrel to polish it and it was supposed to "slip" and not cause any damage to the bore. Every single Kimber of Oregon I've examinded has had damaged lands near the muzzle. Sometimes its minor surface scarring other times the lands have been totally removed for about 1/16 of a inch leaving a gap in each land. It can be very difficult to see without a borescope. The lighting has to be just right.

I too have heard that Kimber used the cheapest grade of barrel that Wilson made. Even heard that Wilson was frustrated with them because for just a few dollars more they could have supplied a much better barrel.

I would also suggest, as others have said, that you don't switch bullets. If you need to get some cheaper warm up at least get a lower Eley grade with the same lube.

Kimber of Oregon was sorta a amature gunmaker IMHO. I'll never forget a rifle THEY sent to Finn Aagard to review for the American Rifleman. It had the screwholes that held the sight rib drilled all the way into the bore of the rifle. While testing it the rib blew off the rifle. The rifle did look like a million bucks however!

All that being said I have a early custom match that will flat out shoot. Great guns to squirrel hunt with but not one I would want to try to compete with.
 
Your right about the Kimber "star grade" guns. Kimber made no bones about it they culled the best shooters from the Government contract and sold the "hummers" to the public. An army surplus store is the wrong place to shop for BR equipment. None of my 3 Kimber of Oregons would shoot worth a rat's a**
not even my Custom Match with the best Ely and Lapua.
 
bilrus, I don't agree with your assesment of kimber and of the barrels. I have articles here that the wilson was chosen over anschutz. the criteria chosen by the army was the strictest ever required. name one rifle that guarenteed that kind of accuracy in 1985? at that time there wasn't any ammo manufacturers that would even guarentee that grouping consistantly.those rifles were considered so accurate for that period the sights are designed as 1/5th. it's well known that rifles such as 37, 52's and the kimbers down fall were the cost to manufacture were prohibitive. how the later # were as the company struggled who knows and every rifle made by man has a few dogs, but the 2 I've tuned and shot are as accurate as any rifle costing double. fact is I have yet to see a factory anschutz that is as accurate as these 2. not saying there isn't any I just haven't seen one.
 
karls 42 you haven't seen old sidewinder's, tomc or any of my cmp 40x's shoot. if you got a chance to see any of the 6 40x's just finished you might have a different opinion about surplus rifles.:)
 
Thanks to you all for your comments and insights. Re my last shooting session, I wasn't shooting over flags, but did have a telltale streamer attached to the target frame. I shot when the streamer indicated dead calm at the target, but understandably, that doesn't account for wind from the line to the target. I didn't think that wind on a basically calm day would account for the kind of variation I was seeing, but I could be wrong. Thanks for your advice, I'll try to borrow some flags from a friend who shoots BR. Also, I'll heed the advice to stick with Ely entirely for my next session to eliminate the mixed-ammo variable.

Though my Kimber isn't bedded, the length of my action screws seems okay and the barrel appears to be free-floating. If either of the conditions were the culprit, wouldn't accuracy be consistently bad? As I indicated, I'm getting variable accuracy...from reasonably good for a non-BR gun to pretty mediocre. Also, I can't account for accuracy deteriorating after 20-30 shots with a clean gun. I keep going back to my original question: would a match barrel behave like this?

Thanks, in particular, for insights into Kimber of Oregon and the quality of their barrels, to include the Army contract guns. I see we have a difference of opinion here, but it sounds more factually-based than anything I've read to date, especially the Wilson vs. Annie comments. I do believe, however, that the "star" barrels probably didn't end up on the Army contract guns. That now raises another question in my mind. Is it worth dropping $250 on a tuner/weights to try to "tune" the Kimber barrel or is it throwing good money after bad? Would it be more cost-effective in the long run to go straight to a custom barrel vice trying to tweak the Kimber? Then a tuner?

Meanwhile, I'll shoot the Kimber some more heeding the suggestions you all have made re wind flags and ammunition. I really appreciate all of the expertise on this board and your willingness to share.
 
Deke, when I say fully floated make sure there is enough room for a business card not a dollar bill test. these are heavy rifles and as they settle into the rest any presure from the stock can cause problems. also what does your crown look like? when checking accuracy you need to shoot match ammo. sk+ and wolf may be ok for practice but don't quite cut it for determing if your going to spend money on a rifle. 1062 to 1071 black box shot the best overall in these kimbers with 1065 eley team being the most accurate.
 
The short answer as to why Kimber 82G sights have 1/5 clicks is that they were manufactured in Australia and have metric threads.
 
and the anshutz were manufactured in germany and they had?
 
further reply to the barrel on the kimbers as far as I know untill april 17 of 2007 no one had put a tuner and had a 82g pillered and bedded. in addition untill nemo came up with his trigger change on april 12 2008 it was impossible to have a safe trigger under 16oz. so how could anyone evaluate wether a 82g was accurate enough for bench without having a 2oz trigger, tuner and proper bedding? the short answer is they couldn't and if they said so were only guessing.
 
slick willy again and again you are just being a wise guy and fail either to read or are incapable of understanding what was written.if you cannot help this fella out why don't you just butt out with the negativity or contribute something positive, which you can't.
 
Oh, oh....didn't mean to start a pissing contest. Just looking for some help from you experts. Martin, I hear what you're saying. Not many folks have given the 82G a fair shake, but I understand that too. To be competitive, I guess it's easier to eliminate the risk and go with a custom action or a 40X, for example, that will accept a Jewell trigger. I have Jewells on my custom CFs and I love them. Then add a Hart, Lilja, Shilen, etc., and a BR stock. I'm not there yet, so I'm trying to wring out as much accuracy as I can from the 82G without breaking the bank. And it's a fun project, but I don't want to throw good money after bad. Should I go with a tuner first and have it bored to the OD of the Kimber barrel and then have a custom barrel made to the same OD if I determine that a new barrel is in order? I would hate to buy a tuner that wouldn't fit a new barrel. Meanwhile, I try to get smart on bedding and take that on. Oh, BTW I've seen pictures of Nemohunter's 82G with tuner/BR stock and it looks great, but I don't recall him saying how well it shoots. I was hoping he'd chime in.
Thanks again,
Deke
 
Deke if you would allow an observation. My 82G shoots but leads up before 25 rounds. Not much leads but just a speck or two or smear stuck in the lead is enough to mess things up. If your still working on your project take a brass brush with you next time, a dry patch will not correct mine. I saw no change with a tuner but i'm no expert either.

I'm sure your aware these factory Kimber are nice but just not up to match quality in smoothness, keep the brass brush handy and give it a chance. Jack Chastain
 
Jack, thanks. I didn't have a brass brush with me when accuracy headed south. I'll take one to the next session. I do recall reading in another thread on Kimber 82Gs that one shooter said his best groups were between about 8 and 30-40 rounds, then groups opened up substantially. I guess we're not the only ones experiencing that phenomenon. Like you, I'm no expert, but my CF match barrels don't behave this way. Do RF match barrels foul up this quickly?
 
If the throat is ruff, it will lead quickly. After the brush, you might want to put JB bore paste on a patch, and then give it about 20 strokes in the throat. After a few treatments like this, it may not be needed further.
 
Deke said:
Jack, thanks. I didn't have a brass brush with me when accuracy headed south. I'll take one to the next session. I do recall reading in another thread on Kimber 82Gs that one shooter said his best groups were between about 8 and 30-40 rounds, then groups opened up substantially. I guess we're not the only ones experiencing that phenomenon. Like you, I'm no expert, but my CF match barrels don't behave this way. Do RF match barrels foul up this quickly?
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Deke "I guess we're not the only ones experiencing that phenomenon." plese don't allow your thinking to be thrown off track with the word "phenomenon". I honestly think you and the other "best groups from 8 to 30-40 shots" are dealing with a fouled barrel, a dirty barrel is not a "phenomenon".

I think it is common practice for some of the benchrest crowd to clean after every card or 25 shots and they use the best bbls made in the world. Jack
 
Jack, re "phenomenon"....poor word choice on my part. I guess I was just taken aback by the early fouling of the Kimber. I'm principally a CF guy and my match barrels came hand-lapped from the manufacturer, so fouling hasn't been a problem. I can go a couple of hundred rounds without issues with those barrels. I'll take some JB to the throat and and the remainder of the barrel to see if that helps. I'll bronze brush after 25 rounds or so during my sessions. Thanks again for your observations and recommendations.
Deke
 
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