Just purchased Kimber 84M in .223 and need help

R

rjpyne

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This is my first post with this website so please be kind. I have searched but find little constructive responses. I just purchased a Kimber 84m .223 with the short fluted 18" barrell. I took it to the range today and all that I had with me was the Hornaday 40gr. Vmax. Just when I thought I was getting it dialed in around 1 MOA it would all of sudden be all over the place. After getting home and searching around on the internet all I could really find was negative things about the gun. I feel pretty stupid for putting so much money in to a rifle without doing more homework. What i need is some suggestions for factory ammo since I am not yet set up for reloading. Should I go to a heavier bullet? Has anyone had success with their Kimber and if so what were you using. If I am unable to find a factory load that will work well it will give me an excuse to start reloading. Please help me figure this beast out!!
 
Well, first of all were you cleaning the bore ?
Factory barrels are notorious for being rough and usually require a special cleaning regimen to "break-in".
Secondly, if the barrel is a skinny contour, it will heat up quickly...and being a factory barrel it will will throw shots as it heats up due to internal stresses inherent with factory tubes. Shoot groups of three, then let barrel cool between groups.
Thirdly, as barrel heats up, heat waves coming off barrel are creating mirage which will cause you to aim at a bullseye which ain't really there.....at least not where you perceive it to be. Place a strip of paper or cardboard along barrel length securing with small strips of tape.
Lastly, place at least 2 ribbons tied to sticks near your line of fire to observe "conditions" and only shoot your group when ribbons agree with one another. A light wind DOES move the bullet.
 
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Welcome.
I am guessing by the description you have the new SVT model 84M. Its speced at a 1 in 9 twist. It may be better to try a heavier bullet 55 to 60 gr. Also if not reloading now, then you should start.

As another poster wrote proper breakin of the barrel is a must for any rifle. Shoot and clean, shoot and clean. at least for the first 25 to 30 rounds then go to 3 shots and clean. It gets kinda old but is worth it.

I have seen and shot several of the Kimber rifles around the local gun clubs, the owners really didnt like em too much for what they paid. They look extremely nice, but it seems their Quality Control is a little lacking, and customer service isnt much better.

IMO Kimber makes the #1 production 1911 pistol out there, period ! But they should have stayed there. For a high end factory rifle, I would have popped for a Cooper Model 21 in 223 they definately can shoot.

Good Luck
DR
 
I agree with LHSmith`s assessment of heat getting to your barrel. I`ve a M84Classic in 260 that heats very quick due to the pencil wgt barrel they use. The extreem light weight of the rifle overall also is not condusive to accurate shooting without some concintration. The fluted barrels they use are med/heavy sporter wgt, or so I`ve been lead to believe. These will not take as much shooting without a cooling down as a heavy varmite or bench barrel will.

BTW which model do you have with a 18" tube? I was under the impression all Kimber barrels are 22"-24". I must have missed that one.
 
Clean it good. I mean squeeky clean and start over with heavier bullets (as posted) Considering all the different exotic twists they're putting in .223's nowadays, it is important that you know what your rate of twist is. Somewhere in the literature you got it should tell you. If not, call the factory. Assuming it's somewhere between 1/10 -1/14 try 55 or 60gr bullets. And watch your rate of fire. Wait at least 1 minute by a watch between shots. I ain't much of a believer in "shoot 1, clean" but I'd clean it down to the bone about every 10 shots and don't be afraid to make liberal use of some JB Paste when you're cleaning. There should be a recent thread in here about JB Paste.
 
So that we can better taylor our advice, what sort of shooting/reloading experience do you have? Often, I see fellows at the range, with a new rifle, and it is the little things that have escaped them, like knowing that they should have checked the tightness of their rifle's action screws, or that they should watch to make sure that their sling studs don't catch on their sand bags. You would be amazed at how often this sort of thing is a problem. As to matching bullet weight to barrel twist, if the bullets are of good quality (jacket runout) and the goal is modest, say half moa, this may not even need to be considered. I knew a fellow that had a tuned up savage varmint rifle that shot 40 grain Vmaxes from a 9" twist barrel, with good results.
 
Unruly Kimber

The single thing that will influence the preformance of your rifle wil be the prevailing conditions. Choose your time of day carefully,early morning and late afternoon just before the range closes are the best. Barrel heating should not be much of a problem with a fairly modest round like a 223. Have never had much luck with factory ammo and would expect groups around 11/2", so to get decent groups you really need to hand load. If all else fails get one of the experienced guys who always hang around rifle ranges to try your rifle and see how his group compares with yours. Having said all that I must confess that I am not a big fan of Kimber. Used to own a model 84m in 308, it was a pretty rifle but had some very serious manufacturing falts and I never did get it to shoot even after about 4 cannisters of powder.:D
 
Thank you for all of your replies up to this point. My rifle is the SVT with the heavy fluted stainless 18.25" barrell, 1 in 9 twist. I would certainly rate myself a novice with respect to time at the shooting range. I have hunted for over 25 years consecutively but never put much time in at the range or even considered reloading. I have made a decision, however, to pick up a new hobby and start shooting regularly and also start reloading. The two guns I want to get dialed in first with custom loads are this Kimber mentioned above in the .223 and my Rem. 700 with 24" heavy barrell, synthetic stock chambered in .22-250. Most important right now is getting this kimber working right. Today I noticed that the stock was touching the barrell so I sanded down the bad areas and reassembled.

To answer a few questions about my shooting experience at the range a few days ago with the Kimber. I cleaned the gun extremely thoroughly before coming to the range and then after about 20 shots I cleaned again. I did not give my barrell enough time to cool down so I am sure that this was a major factor. I will go to the range on monday and follow the above advice.

Does anybody have a suggestion for a custom load? I know there are so many ways to skin the cat but I need to start somewhere. Should I experiment first with factory ammo and find what works best there? Then start a load based on that?
 
223 Load.

53g Sierra, 27g Varget or 26g of 2206H, Rem 71/2 primer. Start with bullet just touching lands and move back in 4 equal increments to a final O.A.L of 2.2". Somewhere in there there will be a good load.:D
 
thank you for the suggestion. Just out of curiousity, how "hot" is this load?
 
My rifle is the SVT with the heavy fluted stainless 18.25" barrell, 1 in 9 twist

Ok, knowing this and you are right now just looking for an excellent paper punching load...

Pretty much factory or hand load with the 69gr Sierra bullet. Period.
Factory ... Federal Gold Medal Match 69gr Sierra. Same with an offering by Black hills.

Handload... With several boxes of Sierra 69gr MK....Test, test, test... IMR 4895, H BLC-2, heck even Varget... 22.5gr and work-up...

And as said above, watch barrel heat AND watch the condition. stick with ribbon on top will help... Better than nothing!


Hope your SVT behaves,
cale
 
I`ve had very good luck with either H4895 or Benchmark and the 52gr Hornady or Sierra match Hps`. One rifle has a 1/9" twist the other a 1/12". Heavier bullets (55-69gr) over Varget work quite well also, but I see no real world difference out to 200-250 yds with them in either wind or drop. Also the lighter slugs seem to be a couple tenths tighter grouping for me over all.

JMO...
 
If you've a .223 and a 22-250 that you plan on shooting a lot, you can just give up on buying store ammo unless you're rich. And learn to reload. I had the same problem. Sierra makes a good bullet in 52grs (bt) and 53grs (fb) and, of course, one of my rifles liked one the the other liked the other.
I used a lot of H335 with my .223.
Hunting experience is almost a negative when you start trying to shoot from a bench. I know it was for me. There are several things you have to unlearn to begin with. How to mount your rifle to start. But there are others in here that can better tell you about that.
 
What do you plan to shoot, paper of varmints? You bought a 223 hunting/carry rifle not a benchrest/long range shooter. The twist rate max is for 69 grains in 223. Look for reality shooting of 350 yards plus or minus. The barrel needs to be broken in. Get a single stage quality reloading press and take a year to learn what it's all about. Maybe ought to just sell it and take your lumps now, it'll be cheaper. I have a Kimber Longmaster VT 22/250 and put dabs of peanut butter to shoot flies at 100 yards so am stumped that there is hate on the net for Kimber rifles, but the advice given costs nothing and reflects it's value.
 
To ripyne

The loads I have suggested are mild in my rifle, yielding about 3,200 fps but it always pays to be safe and start from a few grains below. I don't tune my loads with powder steps though, I tune by seating depth.:)
 
Little 40gr bullets are pain in the butt. They are just hard to hold on to.

Your rifle sounds like a "walking varmint" rig, a similar rifle is a Sisk with a 1:8 twist barrel and about 6lbs total weight. It shot 40gr really well. But for 5k, it better do everything you ask.

If you are set on the 40gr, because of trajectory or other reason, then try some different brands.

I think a 50gr or 55gr varmint bullet with plastic tip or the match bullets in 52/53gr would work pretty well for you. Plus the bullets are cheap.

Twist and ideal bullet weight is not set in stone. Reading several sources, anywhere between 1:11 and 1:16 (or more) twist is ideal for 168gr Match King in 308 Win. Plus the bullet length has a lot to do with it and not all bullets of one weight are the same length.

Call Kimber and ask them what shoots well in your rifle, that may save some time and effort.

I bought a bunch of bullets(36gr -75gr) and powders for my 1:9 twist AR, and I get accuracy from .64 to 1.2in at 100 yards. Varget with 50gr V-Max was the first one that shot better than the others with my first guess.
 
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