How can this be? Price of "custom Dies"

Z

zeke mccune

Member
Hi All:

I recently contacted the three most popular reloading die manufacturers for an estimate for a full length sizing die made to size my fired shells. All wanted me to send them 5 fired cases for making the correct die.

I was shocked to find such a wide gap in the cost of the die. For example:

Die co. #1 $53.00

Die co. #2 $103.00

Die co. #3 $295.00

Why is there such a large price difference? The quality can not be that varied!

Stay well,

Franchi
 
zeke mccune said:
Why is there such a large price difference? The quality can not be that varied!


Franchi
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Really? I think you're an Aussie, or I'd offer you some of my pristine ocean font land in the state of Arizona, U.S.A.

Quality is a tricky notion in any case. One way to look at it is, it isn't how many good ones get out but how many bad ones. That costs more.

Price, too. If you're just getting a little extra money, that's a different notion of return than if your product is your livelihood, where you gotta make enough for a vacation now & then, and maybe get something for when you get too senile to hold a job.
 
Buy the Neil Jones, it really IS a better system than all the others. Completely different, proprietary in fact. The Jones is fully adjustable, with neck/shoulder bushings and is the only setup that sizes clear to the n/s junction. The only one that's NOT worth the money is the die company that charges more than that, for a distinctly lesser die.

Jones or Harrell with Hornady Custom Shop as third. Hornady can get the fit but they'll cost you $200USD for a clunky non-adjustable die.
 
alinwa said:
Buy the Neil Jones, it really IS a better system than all the others. Completely different, proprietary in fact. The Jones is fully adjustable, with neck/shoulder bushings and is the only setup that sizes clear to the n/s junction.
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My Micro-Sizer & -Seater dies for 6PPC and 222Rem. have worked flawlessly from Day One (August 1987). C/S is beyond reproach, as well.
 
=alinwa;
...Jones or Harrell with Hornady Custom Shop as third. Hornady can get the fit but they'll cost you $200USD for a clunky non-adjustable die.
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One of the reasons the Harrell is so inexpensive is it is only available in 6mmPPC and 6mm BR. They make up a bunch with slightly different sizes, have them hardened, and fit your fired cases to an existing die. As long as they don't mind inventory & the initial expense of making all the dies, that's one way to keep the price down.

Having said "only 6PPC and .6BR," truth to tell, both my .30 BR and .30 PPC dies are from Harrell. I don't know if they generally offer them on request or not. Nor do I know what they should cost -- I put an extra $15 in the envelope to cover boring out that little place on the shoulder & Lynwood hasn't squawked yet...
 
Youu're right, Boyd. Your post prompted me to go & look at their web site, and I found

Hardened stainless steel .002 undersized for easy chambering. Can be cut to length for short chambers. Comes in PPC and BR Remington. 47mm Lapua and Dasher.

Unless you know exactly which die you need, do not order online. We have 8 different sizes of each caliber. Please call (540)380-2683.
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Apparently they make a die for the 6.5 and 6x47 Lapua, too.

Edit:

Then down below in the ordering section, it seemes that they offer ".308" and "Mag" too. No idea what that is about...
 
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Cheaper to buy a properly sized reamer and fix the gun.
 
When I started chambering for the 6 Dasher, I bought a resize reamer at the same time I ordered the finisher. Bought some of Dave Kiff's FL die blanks, and while they'll do the job, Troy Newlon's die blanks are diamonds in the rough. I've made my own FL sizers in several chamberings before they were commercially available, and the Newlon die blanks are by far the nicest I've seen.

However, if I were looking for another Dasher die, I'd go with the Harrells in a heartbeat. I certainly can't compete with their pricing, and mine aren't polished nor are they hardened.
 
If you want the Ultimate, get a die by Alan Warner.

rk8ttt.jpg


He custom manufacturers the body insert and neck insert. You can use one die for multiple calibers.

2nk16bp.jpg


It is just an unbelievable piece of work.
 
Butch Lambert said:
If you want the Ultimate, get a die by Alan Warner.

rk8ttt.jpg


He custom manufacturers the body insert and neck insert. You can use one die for multiple calibers.

2nk16bp.jpg


It is just an unbelievable piece of work.
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So it should be Die company 1, 2 & 3 and then there's Alan Warner dies - in a class by itself!
 
It took me a while, but I finally broke a friend of throwing around SAAMI mimimum when he had no idea what the dimensions are. It is better to size some fired brass, that is well used, and order your reamer from that, adding the desired clearances. Do you know the critical dimensions of a SAAMI minimum chamber for your caliber? Neither did he. Working with actual dimensions can save you from unexpected results, particularly when trying to coordinate with a sizing die, or in throat length. I have another friend who got talked into a match reamer for his rebarreling of a.243. He shoots short bullets, the reamer was throated for an over the course rifle that would shoot long bullets. That's what he got for not working with numbers.
 
Boyd Allen said:
It took me a while, but I finally broke a friend of throwing around SAAMI mimimum when he had no idea what the dimensions are. It is better to size some fired brass, that is well used, and order your reamer from that, adding the desired clearances. Do you know the critical dimensions of a SAAMI minimum chamber for your caliber? Neither did he. Working with actual dimensions can save you from unexpected results, particularly when trying to coordinate with a sizing die, or in throat length. I have another friend who got talked into a match reamer for his rebarreling of a.243. He shoots short bullets, the reamer was throated for an over the course rifle that would shoot long bullets. That's what he got for not working with numbers.
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That's probably exactly why he's having trouble. A reamer was made to fit whatever brass the original gunsmith had the reamer made to fit. As a result, the chamber is smaller in diameter than what a standard full length resize die will size. A size die has to be made to fit or the chamber can be opened up to fit the size dies that are available. You can have the chamber recut with a Saami minimum reamer that should work with the dies that are available. A Saami minimum reamer is made to work with the maximum size of case that still falls into Saami's specs. That said a Saami minimum chamber is oversize by benchrest specifications. When I order a reamer, I either spec the reamer to fit Lapua brass or whatever brass I currently want to use or have the body made to Saami minimum and then have the neck spec'd to the diameter I want whether it's a no turn neck or a tight neck chamber and the freebore length and diameter spec'd to what I want for the bullets that I or the customer want to use with the reamer. When you have a reamer made to fit with .002" oversize of a certain brand of brass is where you can run into trouble with having factory full length size dies that act more like a neck sizing die than a full length size die.

Saami dimensions are easy to find, they have them on their web site. If you really want to see where Saami (or maybe Nosler) goes awry, take a look at the Saami specs for the .280 Ackley and then take a look at the Saami specs for the .280 Remington. The Saami specs on the .280 Ackley are set for the Nosler chambering with Nosler brass. Although, the .280 Ackley had been made for years before it became a Saami spec'd chamber, the Saami specs for it are about .012" longer on the body than what was the previous "standard" that everyone used. As a result, when headspace is set with a Saami minimum go gage, you can no longer take .280 Remington brass and fireform it in the new Sammi Ackley chamber or you'll risk case head separation. All factory .280 Ackley dies now are being made to the Nosler Sammi spec. You either chamber the .280 Ackley to the Sammi spec for use with Nosler brass or you chamber it for the old standard where you can fireform .280 Rem. brass. If you do the latter, then the current dies would have to be shortened to work with the old standard. Redding recommends going with the Sammi standard for the .280 Ackley and using Nosler brass which is what their dies are now made to fit.

I've been shooting PPC's for around 30 years and I'm just now getting to where I need to be with the PPC chamber to die fit that I need to keep from having extraction problems. However, for a large majority of the time, I used Wilson neck sizing dies as did most everyone. It hasn't been except for the last ten years or so that people have gone to the screw in full length bushing dies and wanting to shoot as hot a load as you can put in the case and still not have extraction problems. It's pretty difficult to come up with exactly the correct die to match your chamber so that you won't have extraction problems, yet not size the case too much.
 
I guess that I should have explained that I was talking about specifying dimensions for a reamer for ME....for my barrels, given that I know what my FL die produces. As you explained, using such a reamer for a customer, who does not have an identical die would not be a good thing. The friend that I spoke of was in the process of ordering his first reamer, for his own barrels. Having one's own reamer has advantages. All barrels that are chambered with it will be a good fit with your die, assuming that cases sized with that die were used to come up with the reamers dimensions.
 
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