Help with early Hart bench rifle

R

rockthehorse

Guest
I recently picked up a early Hart bench rest rifle from an estate this past weekend. This rifle is a .222 with a Hart barrel, Hart receiver, wood stock without a pad and a very, very light trigger with no safety. The best I can tell the bolt appears to be a modified Remington. Overall this rifle is in near mint condition and the best I can tell has been used little.

The receiver has a three digit serial number, 3xx range, without prefix or suffix letters and without a model number. The rifle also has a skeleton like extension forward of the receiver where one of the scope blocks attach.

Cannot wait- I plan on taking this to the range as soon as I can break away to see what she (and me) can do.

I was wondering if anyone had any information or insight pertaining to these early Hart rifles such as rough date of manufacture, comments on the receiver, desirability, and even value.

Anyway, always seeking knowledge from those willing to share. Thanks in advance, Scott.
 
rockthehorse said:
Cannot wait- I plan on taking this to the range as soon as I can break away to see what she (and me) can do.

I was wondering if anyone had any information or insight pertaining to these early Hart rifles such as rough date of manufacture, comments on the receiver, desirability, and even value.

Anyway, always seeking knowledge from those willing to share. Thanks in advance, Scott.
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Getting a read on the chamber neck diameter should be first priority. It may have a 222 Rm chamber but it may be tight necked and may,or may not, require turning case necks. First, look on the barrel, If it is a tight neck the diameter may be stamped there. But for safety sake, make sure you have a good read on this.

Otherwise, congratulations on owning a piece of benchrest history, and have fun.
 
That is really good advice. No additional marks on the barrel. Today- will search for a smith in my area with the proper guages. What made me feel a little better about this purchase- there were 8 boxes of new factory amminutuion included and no evidence of any reloading equiiptment or reloaded ammo. The ammo appeares to be age appropiate to the rifle, suspect from the 60's or 70's. Did not mention previously, but the rifle came with a 24x
Unertl target scope with posa mounts. Amazingly, the scope is also in essentially mint condition. Had Unertl scopes years ago, sadly let them go, but now I am back!! Two red flags for me when buying used firearms are the presence of reloaded ammo and dies, and a battered scope on the rifle- IMHO.

Scott


JerrySharrett said:
Getting a read on the chamber neck diameter should be first priority. It may have a 222 Rm chamber but it may be tight necked and may,or may not, require turning case necks. First, look on the barrel, If it is a tight neck the diameter may be stamped there. But for safety sake, make sure you have a good read on this.

Otherwise, congratulations on owning a piece of benchrest history, and have fun.
Click to expand...
 
rockthehorse said:
That is really good advice. No additional marks on the barrel. Today- will search for a smith in my area with the proper guages. What made me feel a little better about this purchase- there were 8 boxes of new factory amminutuion included and no evidence of any reloading equipment or reloaded ammo. The ammo appeares to be age appropriate to the rifle, suspect from the 60's or 70's. Did not mention previously, but the rifle came with a 24x
Unertl target scope with posa mounts. Amazingly, the scope is also in essentially mint condition. Had Unertl scopes years ago, sadly let them go, but now I am back!! Two red flags for me when buying used firearms are the presence of reloaded ammo and dies, and a battered scope on the rifle- IMHO.

Scott
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Wow, sounds like you really do have a piece of benchrest history. I can see why you are happy with not having found reloading dies or evidence of reloaded ammo, BUT, you can most likely get improved accuracy by reloading, especially with benchrest quality equipment.

I hope you can state who the previous owner was so shooters who might have known him might be able to provide additional info, but, I would respect you reservation for not doing so.
 
Absolutley agree about loading your own ammo. Currently loading for my high volume pistol calibers and some 45-70's. Never lost a bit of accuracy with most an improvement over factory. Looks like it may be time to step up to the bottle necks!!

As to the previous owner, unfortunatley I did not get any information. His sons were selling "dads rifle" and led me to believe their dad was the avid gun collector while they were not. Paid cash, shook hands and that was that.
 
Could we get a picture. I always thought those were neat looking with the cantilever mount that some referred to as a "duck bill" I believe. It's also my understanding that if it has the original 3 piece laminated wood stock that Hart grew the trees themselves. Also according to the "Benchrest Actions and Triggers" book the Hart triggers are one of the most consistent...at least at the time of writing...
 
No problem- I should be able to post some pics within the next couple of days.
 
That sir is definitely, freaking cool! Nice snag for sure!! I bet it shoots lights out. I will be awaiting patiently for pics of your first targets or groups that you shoot. Please share them with us. Welcome to the forum by the way. lots of good people here. Lee
 
skeetlee said:
That sir is definitely, freaking cool! Nice snag for sure!! I bet it shoots lights out. I will be awaiting patiently for pics of your first targets or groups that you shoot. Please share them with us. Welcome to the forum by the way. lots of good people here. Lee
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Lee,

Had the rifle checked out by a smith- no problems. Took it to the range yesterday afternoon and naturally, being a guy, have three excuses to return with: 1) the wind was terrible.....how bad....let's say so bad no other bench rest shooters were at the range. Excuse #2) I used various boxes of original standard factory ammo that came with the rifle....vintage late 60's to early 70's. (I even tapped each round to "stir" the powder up). Excuse #3) still working on that one...will get back to you.

With that said, my best three shot 100 yard group was right at 1'' ......three shots touching or in a 1" sticker (the best groups were with a really old box of 50 grain Norma ammo). With that said, I am optimistic that the best is yet to come. My next step is to acquire the "best" (looking for opinions here) commercial match quality ammo available and see what see can do. If the groups continue to tighten, then I plan to invest in the reloading dies and components.

Four observations that I made- the rifle has a really tight lock up, due to the weight of the rifle recoil was minimal, definitely do not touch the trigger until ready and lastly- wind sucks!!!!

Not to totally change the direction of this thread, I would love some ammo suggestions or maybe I should ask.......If this were your rifle what would be your next step (considering that I am not currently loading for the .222).

Scott
 
Scott, what a great piece of BR history. I'm not a rifle collector but I'd make an exception for a rig like that! :cool:

As Jerry said, the main thing to do is figuring out what neck diameter the chamber has. Once you know that, you can safely and accurately make hand loads for it. If you have an accurate micrometer (not a dial caliper), mic the outside dimension of a loaded round, then recheck it after it's been fired. A chambers neck dimension will generally be around .001 (one thousandth) larger than the neck measures on a fired round, as the brass will 'spring back' after being fired.

Enjoy that rifle. And call me if you ever get bored with it or think it needs a new home...... ;)

Good shootin'. -Al
 
Maybe Hornady would offer something for you to shoot. When i was using factory ammo to hunt coyotes with, I regularly used hornady. With good results in the accuracy department, i might add. Like said before, loading your own is the only real way to see what your old rifle has to offer. Good luck. Lee
 
Al Nyhus said:
Scott, what a great piece of BR history. I'm not a rifle collector but I'd make an exception for a rig like that! :cool:

As Jerry said, the main thing to do is figuring out what neck diameter the chamber has. Once you know that, you can safely and accurately make hand loads for it. If you have an accurate micrometer (not a dial caliper), mic the outside dimension of a loaded round, then recheck it after it's been fired. A chambers neck dimension will generally be around .001 (one thousandth) larger than the neck measures on a fired round, as the brass will 'spring back' after being fired.

Enjoy that rifle. And call me if you ever get bored with it or think it needs a new home...... ;)

Good shootin'. -Al
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Al,

Planning on picking up a micrometer this weekend. In the mean time, playing with my dial caliper, I measured the necks of fired and unfired cases. Maybe the dial caliper is not sensitive enough, but I can see no difference in diameters between the fired and unfired cases. Is older ammo more likely to spring back? Is this good, bad, or expected?

Anyway, I was getting neck diameters around .250 when I applied what I felt was proper tension on the caliper. I will compare numbers when I acquire a micrometer, but in the mean time wonder what this is telling me and where do I go from here?

Thanks again, Scott
 
Hello All,
''Newbie" here, having only joined today. I found by accident rockthehorse's posting when searching for details on the same rifle. My Hart is exactly the same as rockthehorse's; S/N 346, 20'' barrel, 1 in 14'' twist. My rifle however is chambered for the .222 Magnum, and has a Redfield model 3200 12x target scope, with fine (VERY fine) cross-hairs. I bought this set-up when cars still had fins on the back - well, mine did, anyway - in a rather weak moment, and before I even shot it, was howled down and laughed at, at the range for purchasing ''an old rifle chambered for an obsolete cartridge", and ''a too-slow twist for ANY bullet over 55gns''. So I quietly packed up my gear and never went back. This was 1986, and the rifle & gear has been packed away ever since.
Now I live in another state, and am seriously thinking of going back to benchrest, but thinking back about what those Troglodytes said about my Hart, I may be in a different age-group that has absolutely NO knowledge about my OLD rifle - this could be a real advantage!
Being serious now, and in receipt of reading such glowing references to rockthehorse's rifle, I feel confident to shoot the beastie again. However; not being up with MODERN loads, I wonder if there is a kind soul who would suggest a good starting load for a 222 Magnum with that 1 in 14'' twist. My never-fired load back in 1986 was 53gn Sierra, with 22.2gns 4198, and CCI primers. Any recommendations would greatly be appreciated.
Cheers,
Steamboat.
 
Steamboat said:
Hello All,
''Newbie" here, having only joined today. I found by accident rockthehorse's posting when searching for details on the same rifle. My Hart is exactly the same as rockthehorse's; S/N 346, 20'' barrel, 1 in 14'' twist. My rifle however is chambered for the .222 Magnum, and has a Redfield model 3200 12x target scope, with fine (VERY fine) cross-hairs. I bought this set-up when cars still had fins on the back - well, mine did, anyway - in a rather weak moment, and before I even shot it, was howled down and laughed at, at the range for purchasing ''an old rifle chambered for an obsolete cartridge", and ''a too-slow twist for ANY bullet over 55gns''. So I quietly packed up my gear and never went back. This was 1986, and the rifle & gear has been packed away ever since.
Now I live in another state, and am seriously thinking of going back to benchrest, but thinking back about what those Troglodytes said about my Hart, I may be in a different age-group that has absolutely NO knowledge about my OLD rifle - this could be a real advantage!
Being serious now, and in receipt of reading such glowing references to rockthehorse's rifle, I feel confident to shoot the beastie again. However; not being up with MODERN loads, I wonder if there is a kind soul who would suggest a good starting load for a 222 Magnum with that 1 in 14'' twist. My never-fired load back in 1986 was 53gn Sierra, with 22.2gns 4198, and CCI primers. Any recommendations would greatly be appreciated.
Cheers,
Steamboat.
Click to expand...

Steamboat- very cool....my receiver is about 40 digits older than yours!!! Cannot wait to hear the responses. When reloading, is any caliber really obsolete? Sure, I may not buy a new rifle chambered for .222 as mine is, but if components are available, would not render it obsolete. If your rifle can shoot..... who is to criticize??? Beyond accuracy, the only thing that matters downrange is mass and velocity.

Any idea as to the date of birth of your rifle???

Scott
 
It might be worth a try to call Hart and see what they could tell you about it.
 
Steamboat said:
Hello All,
''Newbie" here, having only joined today. I found by accident rockthehorse's posting when searching for details on the same rifle. My Hart is exactly the same as rockthehorse's; S/N 346, 20'' barrel, 1 in 14'' twist. My rifle however is chambered for the .222 Magnum, and has a Redfield model 3200 12x target scope, with fine (VERY fine) cross-hairs. I bought this set-up when cars still had fins on the back - well, mine did, anyway - in a rather weak moment, and before I even shot it, was howled down and laughed at, at the range for purchasing ''an old rifle chambered for an obsolete cartridge", and ''a too-slow twist for ANY bullet over 55gns''. So I quietly packed up my gear and never went back. This was 1986, and the rifle & gear has been packed away ever since.
Now I live in another state, and am seriously thinking of going back to benchrest, but thinking back about what those Troglodytes said about my Hart, I may be in a different age-group that has absolutely NO knowledge about my OLD rifle - this could be a real advantage!
Being serious now, and in receipt of reading such glowing references to rockthehorse's rifle, I feel confident to shoot the beastie again. However; not being up with MODERN loads, I wonder if there is a kind soul who would suggest a good starting load for a 222 Magnum with that 1 in 14'' twist. My never-fired load back in 1986 was 53gn Sierra, with 22.2gns 4198, and CCI primers. Any recommendations would greatly be appreciated.
Cheers,
Steamboat.
Click to expand...

Luckily I have no need to hang out with people like that. And one thing about this shooting board, somebody treats you like that and he'll be dogpiled, HE will be the one slinking away. This rifle was specifically designed to shoot only light bullets. It's a target rifle. It's an old target rifle in the same sense that your car with fins is an old car but so what? No it won't be competitive in today's BR environment but I'd cheerfully bet a hunnerd dollars it will handily beat any factory rifle and most "TAC" and varmint rifles. Especially those rifles owned by the cavedwellers who'll laff another down....

Anyway, sounds like you will be able to shoot this thing "necksize only" or even without neck sizing, just reprime and shoot.

As far as loads, get a reloading manual to help you get a grasp of the correct powders to try and then load carefully, increasing powder charge until you see real pressure signs. REAL pressure signs are easy to spot......If you're getting shiny marks on your casehead from the ejector hole that's real pressure. If your primer pockets are loosening up, that's real pressure. If you're 'popping' or 'piercing' or blanking primers, that's real pressure. This last means blowing a hole in the primer not 'cratering' or 'flattening' or any of the other descriptions you'll see. When you've established MAX using these pressure indicators then you can back down a grain and continue to work DOWN searching for your most accurate loads....BTW, throw away all the cases with enlarged primer pockets lest you permanently damage your bolt face by gas cutting it.



Here's an idea to keep in mind. The rifle, upon firing, makes a perfectly fitted round.... in other words, after firing a virgin case, that case should come out with a scrupulous fit to your chamber. As it sets this perfectly fitted case offers opportunity to get the BEST accuracy from your rig.......Your job now is to MAINTAIN that scrupulous fit so that each successive shot is generated consistently. This is more important than "working up loads" IMO. Case maintenance and fit is HARD. Start working on a method of maintaining this fit early on and you'll save a lot of hairpulling and barrel wear. If you choose to do as I suggest and fire your rounds without sizing make sure you grease your bolt lugs A LOT, like every 25rds max. Back when these rifles were competing this is exactly how they were used, neck-size-only and lever the bolt down on the fired cases. And people would show each other their bolts proudly proclaiming "look at that, shiney as a new penny, NEVER BEEN GALLED!" Shooting this way guarantees a galled bolt unless you ALWAYS have well-lubricated locking lugs. Also keep the root of the bolt, the primary extraction cam lubed. It will be working hard for you, keep it slippery.

Also keep the scope lubed. I've used wax the little I've messed with this type but I'm no expert. Maybe someone will offer you some help in this regard.

have fun, ask lots of questions. If people jeer you're hanging out with the wrong people.

al
 
Hi Scott, fc and al,
Firstly, many thanks for your replies and encouragement. I did email Harts about 15 months ago as to when my rifle was produced, but didn't get a reply. Given fc's suggestion, I will give them another go.
Thanks al, for your lengthy reply. That is the first time I have ever heard of greasing the locking lugs and the bolt root, with the primary extraction cam to be lubed; but all this now makes sense to me, now. I do appreciate these ''trade secrets'' which I suppose, in reality, only come from years of BR comps.;and taking in good advice as to what others do. To be honest al, I had never heard of the word ''Galled" until reading your post!
All this has given me much encouragement to try the old girl out at the range now. Scott; I hope you are like-minded. No doubt your Hart has the same twist as mine, 1 in 14 ??. It's amazing that two Harts have surfaced so close together re S/No's. al's comments equally apply to your rifle.

Cheers,

Steamboat
 
I have not checked my twist (it is not marked on the barrel)......will send a post when I measure it. Been thinking about what Al said in regards to lubrication and it makes total sense. I found this video on YouTube about bolt timing, helps to further understand the importance of lubrication. Sure will make me pay attention to the bolt when contemplating a used rifle purchase, or for that matter, even a new rifle. It seems that the more I learn, the less I stare at a gun and the more I study it....for what that's worth!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjpWYmLpZA0&lr=1

Thanks again to all, Scott
 
That is a 2" Unertl. I will probably bring more that you paid for the whole out fit, maybe twice more. That rifle may well just be bedded in wood. These days you could just unscrew that cantilever front exstension, and have a fine custom action for another build. That hart is a good action no matter when it was built.
 
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