Help with an LRPV

M

milomad

Guest
Hi,

This is my first post on this forum, but I've been lurking for a while. I recently purchased a Savage LRPV 6mmBR 1:12, and I'm not quite satisfied with the results.

Today was my first time out with it and I shot at various distances from 70 yards to 200. I went through a total of 50 rounds (70 grain bullets), and towards the end I averaging about .6" to .65" groups at 100 yards. I was really hoping/expecting to be in the .375" ranage. Am I expecting too much? So what next?

My thoughts of ways to tighten up the accuracy are...
1. Skim bed the action and recoil lug. It seems preetty rigid right now, but maybe this would help.
2. Seat the bullets further out. Today I was shooting hand loads tailored for another rifle. I don't have much experience with hand loading, but I suppose there's a combination of powder, bullet, primer and depth that would improve accuracy.
3. Keep shooting the rifle to see if things improve. The groups tightened up a bit towards the end of the day. Maybe it just needs to break in a bit.
4. In another thread, someone mentioned removing some of the stock around the bedding block. Not sure where to remove it, but I'd consider doing it.
5. Rebarreling or rechamber. Don't really want to do this, but might consider this as a last resort.

What should I try first? What else did I miss?

Thanks.

Mike
 
A couple things I would try....

Different powders.
Less powder.
More powder.
Different bullets
Lenghten the bullet (seating)
Shorten the bullet
 
My first question would be, did you shoot over wind flags? If you didn't, put everything else on hold and get some flags, then use them. If you did, then next, loosen and retorque the actions screws. I'm thinking I've been told that the middle screw can be a problem if you over tighten it. Check to see if the barrel is touching the stock anywhere.

There are a few of these in the hands of shooters now and some one will post the loads they've had success with.

Rick
 
Rick,

No wind flags, but I also shot another 6mmBR rifle at the same time and it grouped just fine.

Good idea about the action screws. From what I've read, the front and rear action screws should be 65 in-lbs, and the middle should be snugged up. I did have the action out of the stock and when I reinstalled it just tightened them all up to "tight".

I checked the barrel floating, and its got at least 1/32" clearance all the way up to the action.

Thanks.

Mike
 
Savage Lrpv

Do NOT tighten the rear action screw. Front and middle screws should be tight. The receiver behind the middle screw should float and if the rear screw is tight it reduces accuracy.

Check the upper edges of the bedding block. Mine had a small amount of stock material that prevented a perfect fit between the receiver and the block. I scraped it off--result was no movement when the action screws were tightened. This is the goal--if there is movement, accuracy will suffer.
 
I'll second Adrian's and Greyfox's posts...both very important...

Even if the other rifle grouped fine, there is plenty of time for wind to change if you're changing to another rifle...

Tom
 
flags

Even if you get some type of flag. I learned this lesson the hard way. If nothing else, just get some orange flag tape and tie it to a couple of dowl rods suck in the ground. Use at least 3. As my reloading and shooting skills progress I just couldn't figure out why things seemed to go to pot. It was the wind. It is really a killer at 300 and beyond.

Here is an example of the influence.

70 gr Nolser BT at 3300 fps with a 2 mph crosswind at 3:00 yields over 0.2 inches of drift. That is only a 2 mph change in wind. That is nothing. Any time you are trying to shoot sub-1, the wind becomes a factor.

Luck with your LPRV. I bet you can get it dialed in to do sub-0.5" with just a little time. 0.375" is a lot for a factory barrel but you never no.

tiny
 
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group improvement

What load are you using?

Second, it NEVER hurts to skim bed, my LRPV was loose-as-a-goose in the stock when I got it - bedding helped a bunch.

Third, taylor you loads to your gun. We have found that seating the bulelts to a .020" jam with a .001-.002 neck tension helped our groups.

We are shooting 6mmBR, but with a 1:8 twist barrel for heavy bullets out to 1000 yards, so my loads won't help you.

Also, read the article on 6mmBR on the Accurate Shooter Forum. http://www.6mmbr.com/6mmbr.html

Good shooting - love the Savages.
 
You guys are great. Thanks for the advice.

I removed some aluminum from the upper edge of the bedding block. I could see (using black shoe polish) that there were two distinct points of contract between the action and block on opposite corners of the aluminum block. There now seems to be a much more consistent contact area. Skim bedding will be next for the stock/action, but not until after I work on the load.

The bullets were 70 grain Nosler balistic tip in Lapua brass. Not sure about the powder. I just ordered some new Lapua brass along with 75 grain and 80 grain bullets. I'll try a couple different powders along with different seating depths to see what affect they have.

After remeasuing and averaging my last four groups, I'm really not as disappointed as I was a few days ago. The average of all the groups would equate to about .65" at 100 yards. I figure bewteen the load, stock bedding, and breaking in the barrel that the groups will improve to <.500".

I won't be able to shoot until after the 4th, but I'll report back then. Keep the suggestions coming.

Thanks again.

Mike
 
i sure don't want to go against the wisdom on this sight,,but i have been fighting the LRPV fight for almost a year..1st..you didn't mention the sear tripping when you closed the bolt..8oz seem to work..next DODN'T TIGHTEN THE CENTER STOCK BOLT..the front & rear to 65 inlbs ( per h-s stock ) the center bolt snug hand tight,, next i laped the barrel w/ jb & finished w/ flitz. i have never seen a rifle so particular to seating depth & powder.i have a 22-250..h380 is supposed to be the powder..not in this one..ww 780..to the lands..ww primer ..50gr vmav;;5 shots @ 100m ..,259..it was a hard rode geting there..they are able to shoot very good ..the trick is getting there
 
I finally got a chance to shoot it again tonight, but I'm still not quite satisified. I skim bedded the action and recoil lug with Devcon, and tightened the front two action screws with the rear screw being snug (next time I'll try tightening the front and rear screw with the middle snug).

I shot two five shot groups at 100 yards and averaged about .5" to .52" on each shooting 70 grain bullets seated about .015" away from the lands. The bedding seemed to help a bit, although I don't know if the slight increase in accuracy was due to the bedding, different shooting conditions, or the barrel breaking in.

I purchased some 80 grain bullets to try along with the 70 grain bullets. My plan is to try three different OAL's for each to see if seating depth make a difference.

My goal is to get the rifle to consistently shoot .375" groups at 100 yards. Am I asking too much from the LRPV?

Thanks for the responses.

Mike
 
The movement of the shooter due to breathing and trigger pull also movement in the rest torque cant etc cause more accuracy problems than bedding crown issues. .001 inch deflection causes 1" off at 100yds.

try flitz or other fine rubbing compound coat inside of barrel then borrow or buy some of the longest heaviest bullets for the .243 caliber 105 grain. make a slow or medium velocity load for the heavy bullets. This polishes or laps out imperfections in the bore and several new used guns really improved from this as well as new ones for me.

http://www.bulletsamples.com/

http://www.shootersproshop.com/

Next adjust the trigger to its lowest accutrigger 6oz or 8oz weight and overtravel.

I have some real inexpensive guns that I shoot really well because of the loads I develop and familiarity with the guns. That said get used to the gun.

Make sure you have a 24x 36x scope at least.

http://www.6mmbr.com/6mmbr.html

Then work up a load for the rifle I would use 75gr Hornady or Sierra BTHPM with the 1x12 twist. 80gr are perfect in 1x10 twist. If you have a chronograph 2900fps is a good area to begin with.

Primers Small rifle try a CCI BR4, Remington 71/2, or Fedral 205m.

FL size brass trim to length.

Try 30.3 gr H4895 with 75gr 80Gr at OAL of a similar cartridge.

Start 28.5 28.7 28.9 29.1 29.3 29.5 29.7 29.9 30.1 30.3 30.5 31.0 grains

Shoot 2 rnds of each test at 50yds to remove wind and shooter error.

the charges that produce the best 2rn groups near each other say 30.1 and 30.3 then load 5rnds 30.2gr test . After best group try adjusting overall length for best groups.

practice let the barrel break in and clean every 10-20 rounds.
 
Mike,

Your accuracy standard is achievable (.375) IMOP... Your gun is knocking on it...
Your willingness to work on the rifle and experiment is a big +... You will achieve and surpass your standard a tad...

Tiny68 is right......... Ya gotta see the wind my friend. Even on """calm""" days. Simple flag will assist ya BIG TIME... Shooting this small REQUIRES seeing every little twittle of the wind.
Another example of an easy cheap flag... Home Depot/Lowes get 3-5 4' high rebar and a role of surveyors tape. Pull off 3' lengths of the tape and tie them to the tops of your rebar. Stake them out roughly 20 yds out from bench and then every 20yds there after (3 flags at 100)... Other shooters may look at ya odd but ignore them.
Yes, this simple flag can get tangled up (wrapped around the rebar) and can be a pain .... But it's telling ya there are switches (varying angles).

I wouldn't shoot ANY of my irons on the range without flags ... Anyday.

Are you using a stable front rest and solid stable rear bag..? Off solid stable bench top, preferably a concrete bench.

Scope.. At least a 20x power scope.. Preferably 24/36x as stated.

Can ya load at the range..? If ya can, you'll experience quantum leaps in load development.

Shooting technique.... This is a toughy..... Though I believe your OK here cause your groups are getting better.

Good luck and I believe your on your way to owning a consistently < .5 factory rifle

cale
 
Viper and Cale,

Thanks for the replies.

Interesting points about shooter error. I know I'm not the most experienced shooter, and I do want have someone better than me shoot the rifle as a reality check.

As far as the wind goes, I didn't use flags, but the entire range is lined with trees, and things appeared very calm yesterday. Probably <2mph wind. Although I know any wind will induce variability into the results. Same goes for my bench. It's a typical varmint bench, which means that it's not a rigid platform like some of the concrete shooting benches I've seen. I do use a good front rest and sand bag on the rear.

Part of me thinks that if I correct those things not related to the rifle and ammo (wind, bench and rests, and me) that the gun may be shooting much better that what I'm measuring.

I plan to test a couple different loads over the next few weeks to see what happens. I'll also have someone with better skills shoot it.

Thanks again.

Mike
 
wind flags unless your in beggs tunnel, also keep trying diff loads as adrain suggested,,, and if you decide to rebarrel call me, ill buy that 6br barrel,,,,,,,,

the wind is my friend,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

DD
 
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