Hard Turning?

[Pete Wass]

Tried to sink the hole where the sizing bushing sits in my Harrell's Die today and found it harder than, well, one can only imagine. Was able to get .015" but I'm sure I trashed the carbide boring bar! I was hoping to take .060" out of it, at least. ANy suggestions?

Thanks,

Pete

 

[alinwa]

Tried to sink the hole where the sizing bushing sits in my Harrell's Die today and found it harder than, well, one can only imagine. Was able to get .015" but I'm sure I trashed the carbide boring bar! I was hoping to take .060" out of it, at least. ANy suggestions?

Thanks,

Pete

I got one..... "Hey Lynnwoood, Howsa'bout y'all send me out another die for 75.00"......

Them carbide boring bars ain't cheap! And having it ground out will cost more than a new die.

Meantime, I'm curious..... plunging the hole 60thou will seriously screw up the n/s junction. Are you trying to make a 30BR die from a 6BR or what? (If so, there's a better way)

 

[jackie schmidt]

Tried to sink the hole where the sizing bushing sits in my Harrell's Die today and found it harder than, well, one can only imagine. Was able to get .015" but I'm sure I trashed the carbide boring bar! I was hoping to take .060" out of it, at least. ANy suggestions?

Thanks,

Pete

Pete, most dies are case hardened, but not sure if Harrel’s are.

The case hardening is usually only a few thousandths deep. Once you break through it, it cuts easy.

I assume you are trying to size the neck further down by cutting the shoulder that the bushing seats against.

 

[alinwa]

.....
I assume you are trying to size the neck further down by cutting the shoulder that the bushing seats against.

The Harrell dies I've got don't have a land at the bottom of the hole, they essentially come to a knife edge. If you cut them ANY deeper, the hole gets bigger.

When I order my dies I request a .100 land area at the n/s junction with the neck-hole at the same diameter as my reamer.

 

[Pete Wass]

Exactly

Pete, most dies are case hardened, but not sure if Harrel’s are.

The case hardening is usually only a few thousandths deep. Once you break through it, it cuts easy.

I assume you are trying to size the neck further down by cutting the shoulder that the bushing seats against.

got in .015" The top of the die isn't as hard as the body, which doesn't make a lot of sense. I guess I turned .012" off the top so the cap would hold the bushing down. Looked to me like there was enough meat down there for .040" at least. The bullets I'm using need a longer sized neck to hold properly, ergo why I was a tryin.

Pete

 

[Pete Wass]

Not really

I got one..... "Hey Lynnwoood, Howsa'bout y'all send me out another die for 75.00"......

Them carbide boring bars ain't cheap! And having it ground out will cost more than a new die.

Meantime, I'm curious..... plunging the hole 60thou will seriously screw up the n/s junction. Are you trying to make a 30BR die from a 6BR or what? (If so, there's a better way)

I have two of them dies and they both only size the necks about half way down so obviously there is meat above the shoulder junction, quite a lot , actually; half the neck worth .

Pete

 

[Al Nyhus]

I have two of them dies and they both only size the necks about half way down so obviously there is meat above the shoulder junction, quite a lot, actually; half the neck worth .Pete

Pete, my Harrel's are (actually....were ) also like that. I've cut the bushing seat on all of them to size the entire length of the case neck....as close to the neck/shoulder junction as possible while still leaving enough floor for the bushing to sit on (about .030). It took a little tinkering to not leave a radius on the outer edge. It's easier to just cut a radius on the bushings, though.

Rather than cutting the top after lowering the bushing in the die body, I made some spacers to go on top of the bushing. These spacers can also be used to space the bushing up, leaving an unsized portion of the lower neck, if so desired.

Just my approach to it. -Al

 

[alinwa]

Interesting, thank you guys.... I just might have to order me a newer Harrell die and check this out!

That makes the dies much better IMO

 

[Pete Wass]

Thanks Al

Pete, my Harrel's are (actually....were ) also like that. I've cut the bushing seat on all of them to size the entire length of the case neck....right down to the neck/shoulder junction. It took a little tinkering to not leave a radius on the outer edge. It's easier to just cut a radius on the bushings, though.

Rather than cutting the top after lowering the bushing in the die body, I made some spacers to go on top of the bushing. These spacers can also be used to space the bushing up, leaving an unsized portion of the lower neck, if so desired.

Just my approach to it. -Al

some great ideas. Are those dies just case hardened or did you have to hard turn them the whole way?

Pete

 

[savet06]

Pete,
I am curious about this project, and was wondering if this is for a 30br or variant. If it is and the bullet you are using would need to be seated further into the case thus losing powder capacity, is getting a throating reamer to extend your freebore an option?

 

[Al Nyhus]

some great ideas. Are those dies just case hardened or did you have to hard turn them the whole way? Pete

They seem to have a bit of surface hardening...nothing like a production die (RCBS, Redding).

A four flute, square edged end mill worked well. They are under $35 for carbide. Make sure you get the square edged version if you go this way.

Hope this helps. -Al

P.S. I editted my original post to reflect how thick the floor is under the bushing. In essence, the floor thickness is how much of the neck length remains unsized.

 

[Pete Wass]

Yes, a BR die

Pete,
I am curious about this project, and was wondering if this is for a 30br or variant. If it is and the bullet you are using would need to be seated further into the case thus losing powder capacity, is getting a throating reamer to extend your freebore an option?

118 BIB's are long enough to go past the sized portion and what I have been shooting.

Pete

 

[savet06]

Seat them suckers into the lands, man!



Or just get a reamer with .030 freebore and give yourself the powder capacity that we need to get that baby humming.

Or shim the top of the bushing and go for it...I think the bushing rattles when you shake the die in it's original form?

 

[Al Nyhus]

118 BIB's are long enough to go past the sized portion and what I have been shooting. Pete

Pete, I know the rule of thumb is to not have the base of the bullet below the sized portion of the neck.

We stumbled onto this with the 30 WareWolf case (basically a 308W -.165). No matter where the base was, accuracy remained excellent. In fact, I won the IBS Hunter Championship with bullets whose base were about .025 below the sized portion of the neck. The fact that these .30's like a bit more neck tension doesn't hurt.

This was one of the things that encouraged Stan and I to proceed with the WolfPup project (.085 neck length).

 

[Pete Wass]

I had to go to

another brand of bullet recently because I ran out of my 118's and am waiting for more but the new supplier's bullets seat OK. I suspect they may be 8 ogive or the like. I still would prefer to size most of the neck. I've had dies that did that in the past and foolishly sold them with rifles I've sold. I have to be crazy to re-arm at my age but I'm liking being with the old gand again.

Pete

Pete

 

[Pete Wass]

As it turned out

the amount I turned off was enough so that I don't loose the body grip anymore so I'm all set!

Pete

 

[Pete Wass]

Not my style

Pete,
I am curious about this project, and was wondering if this is for a 30br or variant. If it is and the bullet you are using would need to be seated further into the case thus losing powder capacity, is getting a throating reamer to extend your freebore an option?

I gave up on Speed a long time ago. I shoot 34.4, 6" thou in. They go into the same bullet hole. I find this node stays in tune most of the time and with only 6 thou in, I can open the bolt without pulling a bullet if there is a reason to do so. KISS is the way to go and learn to read the wind flags cause speed cant beat em.

It is in fact a 30 BR. the reamer has .040" freebore in it in spite of the fact that it says zero on it . Its simpler to shoot bullets that fit that configuration but I had a supply of these and they shoot dern good. Tennyrate, we fixed er.

Pete

 

[savet06]

I have always stuck with 34.8, and shot the 118 7s that Randy made. I used to shoot a heavy jam, but have moved to .007 or .008. Brian has had very good luck with this seating depth, and I remember you and I talking about 10yrs ago about this "light" jam working well. I have since gone to the 112 7s and they shot great.
Glad to hear it all worked out, Pete.

 

[Pete Wass]

Thanks

I have always stuck with 34.8, and shot the 118 7s that Randy made. I used to shoot a heavy jam, but have moved to .007 or .008. Brian has had very good luck with this seating depth, and I remember you and I talking about 10yrs ago about this "light" jam working well. I have since gone to the 112 7s and they shot great.
Glad to hear it all worked out, Pete.

I have been using .006" for years when I can. Some barrels want more but mostly 6 thou has worked well. I'll try 34.8 and see if it my guns like it. Thanks for the input. I am shooting the 118-7's in the Rock Creek and the Berger 115's in the other rifle, same load, same seating depth and it works there too.

I wish you and your family a happy 4th.

Pete

 

[hayscott]

Leave the die alone and get you one of these!

Find an old Lyman neck sizing tool and a die for your cartridge. It will size the neck all the way down to what ever size you want. Put an oversized bushing in your regular die that barely slides over the neck and then use the Lyman to squeeze your neck. I use mine with a .002 bigger bushing to tighten my necks a tad bit in the area just below where my button stops in my sizing die. At times when I test a sized case in my chamber this area gets tight, I want it to barely fit into the barrel to center the bullet but without resistance. I can tell when it needed it when my cases start to stick in my custom seating did made with my reamer.

The only trick is finding one... I got one on Ebay after a month of hunting for one to show up. If anyone knows of a source for these or the dies please pass it on!