Floating and bedding?

M

muslmutt

Guest
Based on your experience, If you take a factory rifle that you have been developing loads for and then re-do the trigger job, float the barrel, and bed the action, will that rifle shoot its favorite loads better? Or will the change in barrel harmonics etc... change all variables within the rifle to the degree that load development must start all over? Meaning it may hate the loads it used to shoot acceptably and vice versa.:confused:
I ask because I just had this done to a Rem 700 bdl .17 Rem and the loads it used to shoot 4 into 1/2 inch and 1 flyer resulting in a 1 inch group now shoots 3 inch groups with those same loads. Oh, and BTW I am quite sure that is not the stock that was on the rifle when I dropped it off!:eek: Thoughts?

Thanks.
Matt N.
 
Saying a rifle has been bedded is one thing; knowing that it has been done correctly is another. How can you trust the guy's work, when he can't even get the correct stock back to you?
 
To add to Boyd's answer...

muslmutt said:
Based on your experience, Or will the change in barrel harmonics etc... change all variables within the rifle to the degree that load development must start all over? Meaning it may hate the loads it used to shoot acceptably and vice versa.:confused:
I ask because I just had this done to a Rem 700 bdl .17 Rem and the loads it used to shoot 4 into 1/2 inch and 1 flyer resulting in a 1 inch group now shoots 3 inch groups with those same loads. Oh, and BTW I am quite sure that is not the stock that was on the rifle when I dropped it off!:eek: Thoughts?

Thanks.
Matt N.
Click to expand...

Yes, after bedding (done properly of course) and floating the barrel, your rifle may like a completly different load. This was the case with my Rem Model 7 260. However, when I finally did find the load it liked, the group was half the size of the original rifle.
 
It does make a difference.

My CZ 527 Varmint in 17 Remington experienced the same situation. It shot pretty well before I had it bedded, but the factory bedding was so crappy that it eventually had to be fixed. When I got the rifle back the original load required some tweaking and now shoots groups half the size they used to be. I used to like that rifle, now I love it!

If you check the bedding job you may find that the first inch of the barrel has been bedded. This is enough to change barrel harmonics significantly, thereby requiring a change in your ammo to compensate.
 
I'm gonna go against the tide here. "IF" the stock has been properly bedded, it should shoot ALL loads better. Proper bedding does not CHANGE the harmonics, it DAMPENS the harmonics. Assuming you do not have distorting pressures to begin with.
I'm gonna opine that you have some improper pressure some where. Make some paper washers out of card stock (aka biz cards) and put them on the action screws between the stock and the action. You're, in effect, free floating the action, and see what that does to your pet load.
BTW, what does the guy say about the stock switch?
 
Interesting! When reworking up a load what variable in the load remained the same? Meaning did the rifle still shoot the same powder or bullet the best? I have not asked the guy where my stock went, but I am a bit torqued about it. Mine was better looking.
 
My experience is

If you have the trigger done, and the action bedded, this in itself should not do what you state, but floating the barrell on a factory rifle can cause problems. You have removed a pressure point on the on the front of the forearm ( which Remmy sporter wieghts are known for) which has changed the harmonics of the barrell, if the bedding was done right and you handload, then back the load off to minimum and work up. You should find one that works.
But unfortunately finding a good smithy isnt what it used to be.

Good Luck
DR
 
Yeah that is what I was wondering! I identified it as not being my stock by a scratch on the black forend missing and the black tip looked like it had been repainted. I had sealed the identifing scratch with clear nail polish. The guy said he thought he had gotten epoxy on my stock and attepmted to clean it off the resulting uglyness is what I have now. He says it is my gun and stock.
He did do a nice job on the beding etc... Really, I am so irritated I am not sure I want to keep the rifle.
 
Didn't have to check the numbers, but I did. It's my rifle. I could tell when I cleaned it. It has a uncommonly smooth and unique barrel that I can feel through the cleaning rod.
 
Bedding

I would take the stock back to the person who bedded it and have him refinish it or replace it. When I do a bedding job I go to great lengths to prevent that from happening, I would also expect that if I screwed the stock up I would be liable for it.
 
And I'll opine in a different vein.....

Even properly bedded and floated, PERFECTLY bedded and floated, your rifle will be an entirely different animal. I would absolutely not expect any of my old loads to group. I've seen groups move around as much as 8moa from load to load with a factory rifle, free to move. The real reason for pressuring the rifle into the stock is to improve consistency between the various factory loads. The gun may only group 2moa but it'll group this with ANYTHING. (hopefully)

Now it may well walk all over the target and show dramatic variation as you develop loads. It's all dependent on how straight it was assembled. I've seen factory rifles which grouped 1.5moa before floating and would put several brands of ammunition into the same area. SAME AMMO, after free floating would group better, but groups of different brands were 6-8"moa apart.

It's a crapshoot, let the rifle tell you.

And it's like a marriage, expectations can make you miserable!

al
 
I'm guessing you have a wood stock, so.............

I would check to see if the barrel really floats ALL the way back to the recoil lug. If it does, check the screws to make sure they are nice and tight, not Gorilla tight, but firmly snugged. When they are both tight(on a Rem. I loosen both, then tighten the forward one first, then the aft) stand the rifle on its butt on a table with the screws facing you, and supporting the rifle with your off hand wrapped around the barrel and your fingertips resting on the top of the wood next to the barrel. Now, take a screwdriver to the lower screw, and loosen that screw. Your fingertips will feel any irregularity if the barrel moves as that screw is loosened. If the barrel moves, :mad: maybe you need to find someone ELSE to bed your rifle :rolleyes: , so you won't "Roam Between the Winds" :eek: with a dissatisfied spirit. The 17s are supposed to be "Touchy", but I don't find that so, with patience; its just that any impropiety in any rifle seems to be magnified to a greater degree in that smaller caliber. Floating that barrel is very important because a wood stock will shift, but shifting is more pronounced with the barrel touching, in my experience. I was range testing a .17 one day, after I had floated the stock. Now, when I got the stock done, I had sealed it the same day, it was only about a 1-1/2 hr job, but I wanted to maintain the float close to the barrel, not one of those wide-open affairs. So, next day I'm shooting, and the second shot is 1/4" to the right of the first. I let it cool about 8-10 minutes. Third shot is cutting the first, stacked like an over-under, waited a minute, and shot #4, does the same thing, 1/4" to the right of shot #3, cutting to the bottom of shot #2! Well, I got out the ever-present dollar bill, (Remember, this was a CLOSE job, :D:D a hunnert couldn't POSSIBLY fit!!) ran it down, and there was a spot about 3/8" where it almost got by, but wouldn't. No wood tools, just a couple screwdrivers and a pocketknife. Pulled it down and scraped it gently a bit, put it back together, no more problems THAT day :) , but, eventually it got some new synthetic clothing. sorry you're having the troubles. Good Luck ;)
 
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