Equipment For Range Loading ??

H

Hombre0321

Guest
A fellow poster has a thread about load work-up. In some of the response's it has been recommended that he should load at the range. I know this is a common pratice for benchrest Shooters, but it raises a few questions.

These questions may be elememtry in nature, and old hat to you experianced guys but those of us or at least me ( I guess I shouldn't pretend to speak for a group like "US") need to now the "HOW" of doing this, and the goals and rewards of loading at the range thus loading for the conditions.

I do realize a few fundamentals of this type of loading as it pertains to equipment. Such as a press and dies. But what are you using for "Scales"? Is not the wind at the range a factor here? What about a changes in the load as it may pertain to the conditions? How have you determined what changes to make and when?

Any light you guys can shed on this would be good, as right now I am in the dark....

Roland
 
<<<I do realize a few fundamentals of this type of loading as it pertains to equipment. Such as a press and dies. But what are you using for "Scales"? Is not the wind at the range a factor here? What about a changes in the load as it may pertain to the conditions? How have you determined what changes to make and when?

Any light you guys can shed on this would be good, as right now I am in the dark....

Roland >>>

Roland,

This for 100 / 200 and the occasional 300 shoots.......... "Shortrange" or "pointblank" Benchrest.

THE best advice I have.... I believe is....
1. Find a mentor in THIS sport... Current COMPETITIVE shooter who can advise and show you the ropes about ALL of your questions in person.. There are plenty in Bama.. SR BR Shooters that is!
You may have the gun, most of the equipment but need good pointers to make the best of your practice time and match time.
A quality Culver powder measure will get it done... Harrels, Bruno... Great measures. With a little practice one can get 133 (typically the powder most difficult in SR Benchrest to run consistently through a measure) running at < +-0.10gr(E.S. run out of no more than .2gr is acceptable)... Patients and practice.

>>>>How have you determined what changes to make and when?<<<<

That's a loaded questions.............!
EVERY powder has its "unique" charicteristics............. TUNE AND a gun that will SHOOT... Is rather important...Hu Wilbur..!
This will take time Roland... There is NO good way to assist here on-line.....

BUT............

With wind flags set....

Finding a tune... Seat a bullet to >> just barely << a land mark on the bullet (in the .001 - .003 range) this is a good middle ground for bullet seating in a 6PPC.... Common powder like N133... Start @ 28.0 and work up.....

You'll find various nodes and >keep notes< Temperature and Humidity of those nodes... To save on components and to really find a tune for the given temp/humidity... Keep your shots or groups to two or three shots.. By doing this you get the shots off in the >>>same condition<<< to see how the gun is shooting... Loose .3's.... Probably not there... Tight ONES....Or better.. Your prob there... Now.. Test these under simulated match conditions for 5 shot groups...

Hope this helps ya, this is a great sport..... TOUGH for sure...! Find a shooting partner and I'd bet your shooting success will improve, find a new GOOD friend to boot!

Excellent books.............
Tony Boyers book at www.brunoshooters.com
Mike Ratigans book at www.extremerifleaccuracy.com

cale
 
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Most long-range shooters "preload" -- load at home for a match. But that does no good for testing. Either you preload everything for a series of tests -- and wind up with lots of unusable stuff loaded, or you load at the range.

What you need at the range is simply the equivalent of what you have at home, but a little lighter & transportable

Case sizing: There are high-dollar presses, but a RCBS Partenr Press is all you need. Or a Lee, for that matter. A properly set up press has the die made so the shellholder contacts the die when FL sizing sets the headspace just right. Under those conditions, any trueness issues with the press are out of the equation -- it is all die. I'll allow that most don't have custom dies that fit this well, but epoxying shim material to the shell holder or die is an acceptable shortcut. Also, Redding makes a set shell holders in the .308 body size that will let you get quite close with a 6BR

Powder measuring: Two choices -- either an electronic sale/powder dispenser such as the RCBS Chargemaster (has a wind shield), or a powder measure, as others have mentioned -- Harrels makes a good one. What I do at the range for long-range load development is treat the measuring device -- Chargemaster or measure -- as if it were accurate, and do my work. When I find a good load, I throw five charges in a film bottle, and weight that on the lab scale when I get home. Best of both worlds. Relative accuracy for development, which is all you need, and a precise scale at home to determine absolute numbers for record keeping.

Bullet seating: If you want a threaded die, one of the Redding competition seaters, or equivalent Bonanza or Foresters. You can get a blank sleeve to have the chambering reamer run in. In other words, the same as what you use at home, but in the light-weigh press.

For straight line dies, a Wilson seater is just fine. You'll need an arbor press. K&M sells a good one at a reasonable cost., but there are several out there. I have a K&M I use for point-blank benchrest, but prefer the B-Square for long range chamberings -- but them some of my 1,000 yard loaded rounds are over 4 inches long, not an issue you'll face with the 6mmBR. But again, what you use at home works fine.

And that should do it.
 
I have helped friends work up loads, at the range, for magnums that use powders too coarse to throw, using this. If you are handy with tools, it is easy to make. If you make one, use tempered glass for the front panel. Plexiglass causes static charge problems.
Scale%20wind%20box%20002.jpg.jpg
 
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Guys I guess that explains the scale problem. You do surprise me though with the Powder Measure at the range, Even using one of the better Measures like a Harrel I didn't think it would be accurate enough, guess that's what I get for thinking.

Boyd, I really like your "BOX" don't mind If I steal that idea do you?

Charles, I do pre-load for my practice sessions and I am getting real good at pulling bullets. I am glad I started this thread lots of good ideas. Seems like a Boyds Box or maybe just a BB, and George's press stand and a set of range tooling and a feller would be all set. Sure would simplify the load work-up. It's just what I need --- More stuff to get up those stairs---Maybe I can get an elevator installed next.

Thanks Guys!

Roland
 
Roland,
It's "match" season..... Go to one and SEE for yourself.... Shake hands and have fun.

They do what they do cause it works... Most use a powder measure and don't frett with .2gr spread... 30min between each match goes fast and weighing is slow.... + I have done fairly extensive testing in a PPC with .1gr increments ... > .25gr Max ES is about where things START to go "off"... < .25gr Max+ - is acceptable and WILL Agg.

Go to matches and meet the people.... This is a BIG HELP..!
Your area for NBRSA shoots... http://www.nbrsa.org/Southeast-Region

cale
 
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I don't use a scale for loading at the range for my 6PPC, because for that set of powders, I can throw well enough to test loads at 100 yd. (after a lot of practice, and experimentation). As my previous post stated, I use the box for powders that are too coarse to throw, to my standards. My friends usually are in a rush to work up a load. They have busy schedules, and it is easier for them to schedule one day at the range, than a series of shorter test sessions. Loading at the range, for a well prepared rifle, shooting over flags, We have a pretty good batting average for getting the whole thing done in a single trip. I find shooters generally very resistant to loading at the range. Recently, a friend told me he didn't have time. Later, I reminded him of what he had said, after he had taken five trips to find his load, and used a lot more components and barrel steel than he would have on a well organized load at the range day. (IMO) BTW I love my friends' Chargemasters. They do coarse powder really well, and we have taken one to the range with good results. When I do one of these days, I load, and run the schedule, and let the rifles' owners work on their flinches. My other trick, for those magnum testing days, is a sissy bag, or strap on recoil pad. It really makes the fellows happy when I make the pain go away.
 
ASIDE:

Some of you guys need to read the entire thread before commenting. Roland is a brand-new long-range shooter. He is also new to benchrest generally, but a long-time competitor in other shooting venues. Perhaps his posts should be on the long-range forum, but the "new to benchrest generally" kinda means this is a better place to ask questions. So skip the "my PPC" answers and generalize a bit.

Roland -- a tactic I use for long-range load development is to take sized, primed cases to the range. That way, the only "range equipment" you need is a way to drop powder and seat bullets. This requires enough cases to do your testing, something the point-blank guys don't have, as their procedures for competitive shooting usually require loading at the range anyway.

Beyond this, you can weigh powder at home, and put individual charges in 35MM film containers -- or any such bottles. That keeps range equipment down to bullet seating.

But there is a point to doing it all at the range. You never know where a test will lead. It might suggest something you've not planned on doing. Or you might run out of sized, primed cases chasing an idea.

Hand tools for reloading are a bit slower, but just as accurate, perhaps more so. And chosen carefully, they can be small and light. For a 6BR, a powder measure should handle any powder you're considering with ease. If you move to a .338 Lapua improved, the measure will have some problems with the size of the appropriate powder kernels.

I'd say that for 500 meter testing, thrown charges are just fine. You can develop a good technique for throwing charges at home, just practice. Alternatively, the RCBS Chargemaster can be run off batteries.

I would say that absolute precision in powder charges during testing isn't required. I know that seems odd. But the loop is (1) Do this, and (2) see how it works. Two is all about what prints on the target, and the conditions under which it did it (temperature + bullet + powder + seating depth + etc.). When something looks good, throw five charges in a 35MM film container, take it home, weigh it (and divide by 5) and use that number in your log book along with the other variables. Remember that all powder is somewhat temperature sensitive, and the Reloader series doubly so. You need notes.

I can't remember if it's been said in your thread, but three shot groups are good enough at first, because all you're trying to do is determine what works. No point chasing what doesn't work -- a group never gets any smaller with more shots.

Both the equipment and reloading techniques you develop for long-range benchrest will serve you well for short-range benchrest, either group or score, should you want to pursue that. Very generally, long range is more about equipment, short range is more about wind reading. A number of people don't like long range because you can't see your bullet holes at 1,000 yards. It's more intuitive. You use the sight-in period to plan -- or, you put the sight in the center & hope, not always a bad tactic. Success with the latter is always about equipmet & reloading.

A lot of people don't like long range benchrest because "we don't get to shoot enough." That's one of the things I do like about it. Every shot counts. "Oh well, I'll make it up on the next target" doesn't appeal to me.
 
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Roland,
Where in Alabama are you located? I'm in Birmingham and my club has monthly 100 yard and 500 yard benchrest matches. The club website is http:\\www.scssa.org

Depending on where you live I might be able to hook you up with someone that can help.

Steve
 
Roland, every time I go to a match I take a small digital camera and take pictures of all the good ideas on the benches and reloading tables. Learned not to trust my memory.
 
Charles...
"Some of you guys need to read the entire thread before commenting. Roland is a brand-new long-range shooter. He is also new to benchrest generally, but a long-time competitor in other shooting venues. Perhaps his posts should be on the long-range forum, but the "new to benchrest generally" kinda means this is a better place to ask questions. So skip the "my PPC" answers and generalize a bit."

Where did you read he was a long range shooter. I have reread his posts several times but found no reference other than being a newbie! Has it been edited out? Randy J.
 
Randy, Charles actually does have it right, my plans are to shoot long range Benchrest. Charles and I have had a couple of conversations so maybe that knowledge may not be clear in my posts.

I also competed for many years in the shooting sports even at long range but not high power long range. I shot BPCR-- ( Black Powder Cartridge Rifle) both Silhouette and some long range, not a lot but some. I did attended the Long Range Nationals in that sport at the Whittington Center, and have shot the Long Range State shoot at Ben Avery in Arizona but that was some time back. Now with that said this Benchrest is a whole nuther deal from the BPCR sports, I mean shooting a 650 Grain bullet ( thats correct folks 650 grains) at 1250 to 1300 fps, has absolutly nothing what so ever in common with these little bitty bullets at a smidgen over 3000 fps that we are shooting in High Power Benchrest. Sorry if my post were unclear....

Roland
 
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