Copper Fouling

P

pro160

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Hi I am looking for some advise on copper fouling in barrels? I recently read an article on it in a magazine and I never heard about it. So I inspected my Savage model 10 FP 223 looking at it from the muzzle end and I could see
copper in the rifling. I bought the gun used and I don't know how it was maintained. I seems to shoot very accurate. I can punch a hole in a dime or a penny at 100 yds. So I cleaned it with Hoppes copper solvent and a new brass brush and got a lot of dirty patches compared to using the regular Hoppes # 9 regular solvent. How do you know if you need to replace a barrel due to copper fouling? Even after cleaning it, I can still look down the muzzle end an see the copper in the rifling. However when I remove the bolt and shine a high intensity LED from the rear of the gun and I carefully inspect the rifling from the muzzle end, the rifling looks good not worn out or filled with copper. It looks like a uniform channel in the steel. Also, I cannot see the copper in the rifling when the light is shining from the opposite end. The inside of the barrel looks shiny. Any comments greatly appreciated

Steve
 
Steve, If you can shoot a hole into a dime or penny at 100 yards consistently I don't think you have much of a copper fouling problem. I have never heard of anyone having to replace a barrel due to copper fouling but I suppose that could happen. I think you just need to keep cleaning with the copper removing bore cleaner until your patches come out without any blue or green coloring on them. Also remember that using the copper removing bore cleaners that they will work on your bronze brush also and may look like there is still fouling in there. The only way to be sure if it all is removed is by looking at the bore with a bore scope. Hope this helps, runningbear.
 
pro

I might suggest your getting some JB Bore paste, USP, or other bore paste from Brownells or Sinclair, etc. Follow the directions of using a smaller brush wrapped with a patch rubbed with the bore paste.
After two or three bore paste patches clean the bore with your favorite solvent and then leave the bore wet. Wait a few minutes and see if any blue or green appears on a dry patch pushed through the bore. If there is color repeat the bore paste treatment followed by wet bore solvent. Eventually you will remove all the copper, etc. Now you will have a starting point for the future.
The bore paste will not hurt your bore. It will just remove all of the build up.
Repeat
Centerfire
 
Steve ...

Read this:

Comments on JB Paste and abrasives by two well known sources:

"I personally believe in the use of JB Bore Cleaner... I use it after every yardage. 3 to 5 tight fitting patches with JB will get the powder fouling out... I do a full cleaning before I use JB and also after I use JB, to make certain I've got all the JB out of the barrel. ... Tony Boyer"

Source: The Benchrest Shooting Primer, ON THE TOPIC OF BARRELS, by Tony Boyer, Page 349, upper left.
-----------------------------------
Krieger Barrels Inc,: Q&A

Q: Will a paste-type bore cleaner such as J.B. hurt a barrel during cleaning?

A: No. There is nothing that we can find that shows that it will harm the barrel provided you use a rod guide and refrain from exiting the muzzle.
--------------------------------------

Instructions received from Krieger with my Krieger barrel: Break-In and Cleaning, Under Cleaning:

"Abrasive cleaners work well. They do not damage the bore, they clean all types of fouling (copper, powder, lead, plastic), and they have the added advantage of of polishing the throat both in 'break in' and later on when the throat begins to roughen again from the rounds fired. One national champion we know polishes the throats on his rifles every several hundred rounds or so with diamond paste to extend their accuracy life." :)
 
Steve

If you're shooting pennies and dimes at 100 yards why would you want to change anything?:rolleyes::cool:

To paraphrase Charlie the Tuna, "You don't want rifles that look good, you want rifles that shoot good."

JMHO

Ray
 
Barrel maker Ed Shilen is quoted as saying that a little copper in the bore doesn't hurt accuracy. That appears to be the case in your rifle. Leaving Hoppe's #9 in the bore will slowly remove copper without harming the bore if it bothers you. Removing all the copper might harm your rifle's accuracy too, and it's likely to be laid back down as soon as you shoot anyway. :eek:
 
Copper can destroy accuracy

I recently had a lesson in bore copper effect. While testing loads for a new 30-30, I found one lot of 150gr bullets caused heavy copper deposition in the bore and caused the 100 yd groups to enlarge from 1 - 1.5 inches to 3 -4 inches. I have mailed the bullets to the manufacturer to get an opinion.
In other rifles, I have seen bore copper not affect accuracy significantly.

best, nrb
 
Heck the easy solution is just don't get the copper out, be the "guy" that one days wondering why his rifle's accuracy, one day went south on him?

I bought a rifle for a friend of mine in 30-06 (used) the guy I got it from told me the tale of it was at one time the best shooting/ most accurate rifle he had ever owned. He didn't know why it quit shooting like it used to?

After getting the bore clean, he was right, it was and accurate rifle.:D
 
In my factory

guns I do not worry about the copper unless the accuracy really goes south.

Factory barrels are by no means the quality of a barrel from our top barrel makers. They are mass produced and pretty rough inside. Outside of an initial short breakin I do not worry about the copper. I figure it helps smooth out a pretty rough bore.

The aftermarket Gaillard barrels I shoot show no visual copper signs after shooting an agg with them. Cleaning is a breeze with some Butch's, patches and a brush.

My factory Rem 700 243 Winny, is as orange, as an orange, at the muzzle and it still shoots great for a factory gun out to the 500 yards I have been testing the last 2 days. I clean it as I do my match barrels but just so the powder fouling is gone. It is about 4 wet patches for them to show no signs of powder residue.

JMO
Calvin
 
AVanGorder said:
This is the best stuff I have found for cleaning cooper that just won't come out.
Search the net and you'll find some independent studies of this stuff. It truly works wonders.

Adrian

https://www.kgcoatings.com/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=9

Link to test
http://www.eabco.com/KG12Test.pdf
Click to expand...

I agree with your assessment. A quick link without a PDF down load is below. I keep it in my Favorite file for just such occasions as this.


http://www.cleenboreusa.com/kg/kg12testresults.asp
 
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