Cleaning Question

Apollo

Apollo

Jason Stanley
I have a Rem 788 chambered in a 22-250. I've been cleaning it for the past 5 days. Still getting dark blue on patches. The process is:
1. using wipe-out with accelerator before bed
2. patching out then using wipeout with accelerator before work
3. patching out then scrubbing with bronze brush and eliminator
4. patch out - repeat 1 or 2 more times before starting over with step 1.

Been doing this for the past 5 days and still getting lots of blue - dark blue. I shot 2 shots the other day to see if there was an impact change and both shots went right where they were supposed to go. My question is - do I really need to clean it down to bare metal? It is shooting good now - and all I'm doing with it is calling coyotes. Other than the fact that I know it isn't clean - is it harming anything? I'm also wondering if I am doing more harm by cleaning it - than having the copper in there.?

Thanks in advance

Stanley
 
may i suggest..
fibre brush a bit over size say a 243 for your 22 cal.
7.62 sweets....soak the brush and 20 strokes.
sit for 10 min, patch out..2 patches...no solvents
do this over and over, increasing brush stroke count by 10 each time, till while scrubing the brush stays white instead of blue grey.....
wash the brush in hot water after each use.
once the sweets is done you can then try longer slower chemicals like no 9

the only real issue is pressure build up from a tight throat.....if it shoots well its up to you, but i like squeeky clean...

mike in co
 
Jason, get in there with some JB on a patch wrapped around a worn bronze brush. Add a few drops of solvent, then push the JB patch 'til it comes half way out the muzzle, then pull it back. Do that 15-20 times, then sluice (I like that word :D) the barrel out with 5-6 sloppy wet patches, followed by 15-20 sloppy wet bronze brush strokes, then dry patch it to make sure all the JB is gone. Finish with a patch slightly damp with a bit of oil. Dry patch the oil out before your first shot..it may take several rounds before the p.o.i. stabilizes.

Good shootin'. -Al
 
My coyote rifle stays dirty most of the year. Only two things make me clean it:
If I see a change in point of impact (gradually or suddenly). This is due to carbon buildup and pressures increasing.
And,
If I start to see blue or green streaks appearing at the muzzle. If that happens, I check my dessicant can to see if it needs a re-charge, and then clean the bore down to bare metal and leave it with a bit of oil in the bore.

In a coyote rifle, I don't think copper in the bore makes much difference as long as it still shoots well and shoots where it should. Now, my competitive BR barrels may be a different ball of wax..................
 
Probably the jag or brush

Applying copper solvents with bronze brushes or patches on jags can deposit copper into the barrel you see later on another patch. Even fibre or nylon brushes often carry a bronz stem. Try applying the solvent on a patch using one of those carbon fibre jags. Then patch it out an hour or so later and see if it comes out blue. Chances are it won't.
Andy.
 
having used swaps and patches to apply sweets , i can tell you that sweets is much more affective when used on a fibre brush..all of which i have used have steel cores. the bristles work the surfaces much better than a patch or a swap...
which may have been why i posted the way i did.....
not picking on andy or anyone else...but he said "lots of blue - dark blue. "..not traces from cross contamination...

guys i revive ancient mil rifles with unknown material in the bores..been there done that....

i have never used any of the new bore foams..as my techniques have worked well so far......

mike in co
 
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I've been using patch out with accelerator for a very long time. I once read from the manufacturer that after 15 minutes PO w/accel is done. There is no advantage in leaving it all night. For the most part, this has worked well for me. The significant exception was a Cooper in Tc 20 that needed 6-7 applications before it came clean. After 3-4, it started pulling twists of copper. That barrel was very dirty. I tend to agree with Francis about the copper coming from the brush. Also, what Al said is very good. With my BR barrels, I clean using Rem Clean now and then to slick things up and get the carbon out of the throat. It feels like it makes a difference and I can see improvement on the targets.

Rick
 
Apollo said:
I have a Rem 788 chambered in a 22-250. I've been cleaning it for the past 5 days. Still getting dark blue on patches. The process is:
1. using wipe-out with accelerator before bed
2. patching out then using wipeout with accelerator before work
3. patching out then scrubbing with bronze brush and eliminator
4. patch out - repeat 1 or 2 more times before starting over with step 1.

Been doing this for the past 5 days and still getting lots of blue - dark blue. I shot 2 shots the other day to see if there was an impact change and both shots went right where they were supposed to go. My question is - do I really need to clean it down to bare metal? It is shooting good now - and all I'm doing with it is calling coyotes. Other than the fact that I know it isn't clean - is it harming anything? I'm also wondering if I am doing more harm by cleaning it - than having the copper in there.? Thanks in advance Stanley
Click to expand...

5 days [5X24] is 120 hours divided by 20 minutes at the most, is 360 cleaning sessions. WOW! That's got to be some kind of world record.

More barrels are ruined by over cleaning than by actual use.

Traditional cleaning methods normally are over and done with within 20 minutes or less.

Cleaning with patches and a brush using Butch's Bore Shine followed by 3 to 5 tight fitting patches of JB Non-Embedding Bore Cleaning Compound followed by a good cleaning with Butch's again to remove the JB paste should remove everything in that barrel in less time then it takes to watch the evening news.

If you've never used it, go get some JB and use it after about every 40 to 50 rounds. It makes a big difference. Here's one good source, there are many: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4v7spb32Huc
 
ab..i think you over read his description of his cleaning...
twice a day..maybe three times a day and then over noght soaking.

mike in co
abintx said:
5 days [5X24] is 120 hours divided by 20 minutes at the most, is 360 cleaning sessions. WOW! That's got to be some kind of world record.

More barrels are ruined by over cleaning than by actual use.

Traditional cleaning methods normally are over and done with within 20 minutes or less.

Cleaning with patches and a brush using Butch's Bore Shine followed by 3 to 5 tight fitting patches of JB Non-Embedding Bore Cleaning Compound followed by a good cleaning with Butch's again to remove the JB paste should remove everything in that barrel in less time then it takes to watch the evening news.

If you've never used it, go get some JB and use it after about every 40 to 50 rounds. It makes a big difference. Here's one good source, there are many: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4v7spb32Huc
Click to expand...
 
Mike, From start to finish is equivalent to. The point is, that the process, can be shortened considerably. :)
 
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What kind of barrel

After re-reading the original post I thought I had better calrify what kind of barrel steel we are talking about. My guess is the original barrel would have been chrome moly or has it been rebarrelled with something else.
Andy.
 
Wow. Thanks for all the replies. I am pretty sure that I am gaining ground on the chrome moly barrel. Time for some Ioso. I'll let you know how it turns out. Thanks again for all the replies.

Stanley
 
Have you bore-scoped it?

I bought a well-used 721 in .257 Bob that looked pretty good looking down the barrel. I only shot it two times, about 10 to 15 shots each time and it didn't shoot too bad. Both times it took about 3 days to clean up with Accelerator and Wipeout, which is too much for my taste. I bought a bore-scope awhile later and took a look and about threw up! The bore looked like a dry lake bed that had been cluster-bombed for about the entire length. It went straight out for a new barrel. I use this stuff on all my rifles and find that J&B, brushes and the like are not necessary with a decent barrel. If it's good enough for Tony Boyer (see the book) it's good enough for me. I have tried about every cleaning method known to man and a good barrel will clean up easier with this stuff than anything. Sure there is some "wait time" but I'm doing other stuff then. The overall effort is very slight.
 
Often what looks like Firecracking in barrels is carbon. Once one JB' s the doggy doo out of that section, they will begin to see shiny barrel again. What works especially well with JB is to use a jag that requires a patch be wraped around it. Fit a TIGHT patch to that, lathered up with JB and stroke it back and fourth 10 or a dozen times. You might find the barrel isn't nearly as bad as you thought. I once got in a trade an old 788 HV rife chambered in .223. It didn't shoot very well so I set about cleaning it; this was before I discovered JB. Took me a week to get the carbon out but once I had it clean, it would shoot teeny tiny groups once again.

Recently I have been using 1200 grit non-imbedding compound. I find it cuts down the clean up time, on the "hard Cases", considerable.
 
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Carbon vs Gatoring

In the past when I have borescoped barrels that wouldn't shoot I have found that the baked on carbon looks quite different to the gatoring effect of surface stressed barrel steel. I am not sure how you would mistake one for the other.

If carbon is the issue I just give the barrel a soak in CTC or one of the equivalents and
( although many people wouldn't go near the stuff ) it's clear of carbon in 20 minutes.
Andy.
 
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