Choosing .22BR dies?

B

Bold Lion

Guest
For my benchrest .22BR I want to get a nice full-length sizing die. It's the "Norma" not the "Remington" chambering.

I've heard Harrells does good work and can make a custom die, but I have a friend who can get good deals on the Redding Type S full length .22BR die.

I was thinking of using the Redding .22BR Type S full length bushing die with the Redding Competition shellholder set to just get that crush fit.

Which should I go with?? Thanks!
 
but I have a friend who can get good deals on the Redding Type S full length .22BR die.
I was thinking of using the Redding .22BR Type S full length bushing die with the Redding Competition shellholder set to just get that crush fit.

Which should I go with?? Thanks!
Click to expand...

Lion,

Think you have two good plans.......... I did the S die with a few comp shell holders....... Works wonderful with the Norma/Lapua brass...

cale
 
caroby said:
Lion,

Think you have two good plans.......... I did the S die with a few comp shell holders....... Works wonderful with the Norma/Lapua brass...

cale
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply,

I got a guy who is selling Redding parts at 10% over dealer cost. So for about the same price as the Harrells die I could get the Type-S die, shellholder set and bushings...
 
Not sure if you realize it, but you'll need a real FL die to make 22BR cases and for using longer headspaced cases that were fired in another chamber. Most bushing dies and even the Redding Body die will not get the whole neck or the neck shoulder junction.
 
tricrown said:
Not sure if you realize it, but you'll need a real FL die to make 22BR cases and for using longer headspaced cases that were fired in another chamber. Most bushing dies and even the Redding Body die will not get the whole neck or the neck shoulder junction.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I do realize that. I have a Redding form die that I use to bring the neck down from .243 to .224. I have a Forster .22 BR die, but it's a typical die with the expander ball and from what I've read, running the expander ball through the neck of the case does nothing for accuracy and works the case excessively...

I think the Redding Type S full length bushing die with the Competition shellholder set will fill the need...but I'm still wanting to hear other opinions.
 
Guys,

Went ahead and got the Harrell's die, it came in the mail today. Pretty nice piece and can't wait to start using it.

Another quick question - obviously I need to determine what size bushing I need. I plan on turning the necks for this rifle, even though its a "no turn" neck I figured it would be good to just clean up the necks. I need to determine what size neck thickness I want to get to...after measuring 5 pieces of brass that's been fired approximately 2-3 times and unsized, I got a measurement of .252" on every piece. Reading an article on 6mmbr.com, it says if you add .001" to this measurement you will have a very close measurement of your chamber's neck diameter. In order to just clean up the necks on the Lapua brass, what neck wall thickness should I be looking for?

Then once I've got the number as far as what my neck wall thickness goal will be, I'd then account for the thickness in both sides (for example, .0125"*2=.025), then I'd add the bullet diameter of .224" and arrive at .249", and subtract .002" from this number correct?

In order to load up brass for this thing, I run them through the form die, through a standard FL die, trim, then neck turn and now I'm ready to use my FL bushing die??

Thanks all :D
 
Bold Lion said:
Guys,

Went ahead and got the Harrell's die, it came in the mail today. Pretty nice piece and can't wait to start using it.

Another quick question - obviously I need to determine what size bushing I need. I plan on turning the necks for this rifle, even though its a "no turn" neck I figured it would be good to just clean up the necks. I need to determine what size neck thickness I want to get to...after measuring 5 pieces of brass that's been fired approximately 2-3 times and unsized, I got a measurement of .252" on every piece. Reading an article on 6mmbr.com, it says if you add .001" to this measurement you will have a very close measurement of your chamber's neck diameter. In order to just clean up the necks on the Lapua brass, what neck wall thickness should I be looking for?

Then once I've got the number as far as what my neck wall thickness goal will be, I'd then account for the thickness in both sides (for example, .0125"*2=.025), then I'd add the bullet diameter of .224" and arrive at .249", and subtract .002" from this number correct?

In order to load up brass for this thing, I run them through the form die, through a standard FL die, trim, then neck turn and now I'm ready to use my FL bushing die??

Thanks all :D
Click to expand...

OK, this entire post is in answer only to you. It doesn't comment on anything anyone else has said. These are MY opinions.

You did well with the Harrell die. Don't be discouraged if you have to send it back and get it re-fitted, it happens, a lot.... but in the meantime it's truly a FITTED die, something the others simply cannot offer. It will do things the Redding couldn't be expected to do.

YES, you understand correctly. You have approximately a .253 neck diameter in your chamber.

Now, fuh'GEDDABOUT all the other math junk. Just load a round or 5 and MEASURE them. Yes, they might be around .249 and yes an appropriate bushing would then be .247.......for a very SOFT seat.

Were I you I'd get .247, .246 and .245 for bushings

Also were I you I'd ditch the idea of turning the necks. You can't possibly gain anything but you definitely will increase inbore yaw and shorten the life of your brass.

Actually, SCRATCH THAT.... :) ..... try it both ways, turned and unturned. TEST it out.

Have fun

Be safe

Happy New Year

al
 
Al,

Thanks for the post and all the info in it. I think turning the necks on this rifle may be not be of much help. The idea of having a variety of bushings also seems good.

Just another few questions; when you said you may have to send it back to have the Harrell's die refitted, did you mean in the case of a rebarell and thus a different chamber?

Also, is it necessary to use my regular FL die after using the form die and then using the bushing die, or can I just got form the form die to the bushing die and be good? Thanks again!
 
Bold Lion said:
Al,

Thanks for the post and all the info in it. I think turning the necks on this rifle may be not be of much help. The idea of having a variety of bushings also seems good.

Just another few questions; when you said you may have to send it back to have the Harrell's die refitted, did you mean in the case of a rebarell and thus a different chamber?

Also, is it necessary to use my regular FL die after using the form die and then using the bushing die, or can I just got form the form die to the bushing die and be good? Thanks again!
Click to expand...


OKOKOK.......FULL STOP...... :)


Just another few questions; when you said you may have to send it back to have the Harrell's die refitted, did you mean in the case of a rebarell and thus a different chamber?
Click to expand...

This means that the die you got from Harrell's may not exactly fit your chamber. YOUR chamber. I'm guessing you sent Harrell's some of your fired brass??? This is how they gener'ly do business. They took measures off YOUR brass, hence YOUR chamber, and sent you a die accordingly. This die is to be used as your only sizing die from here onwards. It's a fitted full length sizing die. But depending on the cases you sent them they may not have exactly matched your existing chamber in which case they'll trade you out for no cost.


Now, when you burn out that barrel you start all over again. Unless you use the same gunsmith, same reamer AND he's good enough to cut you the same chamber.

Also, is it necessary to use my regular FL die after using the form die and then using the bushing die, or can I just got form the form die to the bushing die and be good?
Click to expand...

Proof this carefully please, I'm not exactly sure I've gotten the sense of it but I think my answer is "yes." Form die one time, Harrell die thereafter.

For clarity ask lots of questions on this board. Communication is hard. But people here have done it all and will help you once you're understood.

al
 
Al,

Thanks again for all the information. I used the die from Harrells just to bump the shoulder and it set it back .001"...besides this how would I know if I need them to modify my die?

Just re-read my second question and I apologize it came out so gramatically incorrect. I usually reply to these threads using my mobile device and spellcheck doesnt happen.

The question i was trying to ask is this. Lets say i have a new lot of unfired brass. I would first bring the neck in using a form die...but after do i use my regular Forester .22 BR die and then my Harrells bushing die? Or would i only need to use the Harrells die. For subsequent sizing i understand i only use the harrells die. Thank you.
 
You neck down to fit using (probably) a cheapo full length sizing die as a "form die."

Then you use your Harrell's die to full length resize and size the neck, every time........ the Forster is never used.

Keep asking/clarifying until it's clear, the only stupid question is the one unasked.

I think we're in the same room here already.

al
 
Al,

We are definitely in the same room, I think I might just have my foot outside the door :)

The only reason I ask about the form die and the regular FL die is because i currently have both. I bought the form die because I thought it would be easier on the brass as there is no shrinking down of the neck then re-expanding via the expander ball. I'll stick with form die and Harrell's for all my sizing needs, maybe I'll sell the Forster. Thanks Al you've been immensely helpful.
 
alinwa said:
OK, this entire post is in answer only to you. It doesn't comment on anything anyone else has said. These are MY opinions.

You did well with the Harrell die. Don't be discouraged if you have to send it back and get it re-fitted, it happens, a lot.... but in the meantime it's truly a FITTED die, something the others simply cannot offer. It will do things the Redding couldn't be expected to do.

YES, you understand correctly. You have approximately a .253 neck diameter in your chamber.

Now, fuh'GEDDABOUT all the other math junk. Just load a round or 5 and MEASURE them. Yes, they might be around .249 and yes an appropriate bushing would then be .247.......for a very SOFT seat.

Were I you I'd get .247, .246 and .245 for bushings

Also were I you I'd ditch the idea of turning the necks. You can't possibly gain anything but you definitely will increase inbore yaw and shorten the life of your brass.

Actually, SCRATCH THAT.... :) ..... try it both ways, turned and unturned. TEST it out.

Have fun

Be safe

Happy New Year

al
Click to expand...

I have a 22BR with a .254 neck chamber. If a loaded round measured .249 don't you usually want a bushing between .001 - .002 less, so a .248 or .247. I would think that .245 is way to tight. So far my experience has shown that the resizing with a Redding FL die seems to add to the wall thickness. Also a factor is the age of the Lapua brass (meaning newer blue box vs older paper box). The older Laupa has a thicker neck. My loaded rounds (without turning the neck), using the older Laupa, seem to be around .252. I am using a .251 bushing.

Ed
 
ehkempf said:
I have a 22BR with a .254 neck chamber. If a loaded round measured .249 don't you usually want a bushing between .001 - .002 less, so a .248 or .247. I would think that .245 is way to tight. So far my experience has shown that the resizing with a Redding FL die seems to add to the wall thickness. Also a factor is the age of the Lapua brass (meaning newer blue box vs older paper box). The older Laupa has a thicker neck. My loaded rounds (without turning the neck), using the older Laupa, seem to be around .252. I am using a .251 bushing.

Ed
Click to expand...

Ed,

you need to find out how a Redding die can make your necks thicker. Something odd's going on there....

al
 
alinwa said:
Ed,

you need to find out how a Redding die can make your necks thicker. Something odd's going on there....

al
Click to expand...

Its not the die that makes the neck thicker. It is the physics that you are flowing the brass somewhat as you size down from .243 to .224.

Ed
 
ehkempf said:
Its not the die that makes the neck thicker. It is the physics that you are flowing the brass somewhat as you size down from .243 to .224.

Ed
Click to expand...

uhhh, no, You said "resizing" as in "So far my experience has shown that the resizing with a Redding FL die seems to add to the wall thickness."

What do you mean by this?

al
 
alinwa said:
uhhh, no, You said "resizing" as in "So far my experience has shown that the resizing with a Redding FL die seems to add to the wall thickness."

What do you mean by this?

al
Click to expand...

It called displacement. The brass has to flow somewhere, some it is in the added length of the neck and some to the neck walls. This happens when you take a 6 MM BR case and run it thru the 22 BR FL die to go from .243 to .224. The first step in making 22 BR brass. I am not talking about the resizing that is done in the following steps. In my case I do the following. Size to .224 by using a Redding FL standard die with the decapping and sizing button removed (resizing of a sense). Trim to the proper length. Then I use a Redding Type S FL die with a proper bushing.

Ed
 
ehkempf,

Your verbiage is not at all clear to me but hopefully others don't find it as confusing as I do.

Bold Lion,

please keep asking for clarity if you're not getting it.

al
 
Al,

Since we've pretty much decided that neck turning for this rifle probably won't do me much good, since the chamber looks to be a .253" or so and is specified as "no-turn neck", I've realized that I need to use a different method of calculating the bushing size.

I measured 5 loaded rounds using brass that I got with the rifle when I purchased it (don't know the age, but I'm thinking a few years old based on the age of the rifle), and got exactly .252" on all the rounds...

So this would leave me with a .252+-.001"=.251" bushing size?

Order .251", .250" and .249" then? Or maybe one on each side of the .251" number (.250", .251" and .252")?

Thanks! Happy New Year!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Bold Lion said:
Al,

Since we've pretty much decided that neck turning for this rifle probably won't do me much good, since the chamber looks to be a .253" or so and is specified as "no-turn neck", I've realized that I need to use a different method of calculating the bushing size.

I measured 5 loaded rounds using brass that I got with the rifle when I purchased it (don't know the age, but I'm thinking a few years old based on the age of the rifle), and got exactly .252" on all the rounds...

So this would leave me with a .252+-.001"=.251" bushing size?

Order .251", .250" and .249" then? Or maybe one on each side of the .251" number (.250", .251" and .252")?

Thanks! Happy New Year!
Click to expand...

The usual recommend bushing size is .001 to .002 smaller than a loaded round. Therefore you should start with a .251 (like I do in the post I made) or .250. What you need to understand is that the difference in size relates to the amount of tension that is being created to hold the bullet. That amount is a factor of many things, such as power being used, bullet type, seating depth, etc. If your loaded size is .252 you would not use a bushing of the same size. By the same token you probably would not want to go to small in bushing size, as it would make it impossible to seat a bullet. Another thing to remember that as you increase neck tension you are also increasing pressure.

Ed
 
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