bronze brush life???

T

tiny68

Member
Another rookie question. I know this sounds a little like "how many licks to the center of the lolly pop"....that kind of ages me....., but how many strokes do you typically get out of a wire brush before replacing? I used Bruno's brushes and typically clean with 2 wet patches of solvent and 6-10 strokes of a wet brush, follow by 2-3 dry patches. I have been using some brushes so long that I don't realize the resistance is decreasing until I put a new brush on and I can't hardly push it down the barrel. Always harder with the smaller calibers.

Just wondering if you have a routine on when to replace a brush.

Merry Christmas, tiny
 
My normal routine....

tiny68 said:
Another rookie question. I know this sounds a little like "how many licks to the center of the lolly pop"....that kind of ages me....., but how many strokes do you typically get out of a wire brush before replacing? I used Bruno's brushes and typically clean with 2 wet patches of solvent and 6-10 strokes of a wet brush, follow by 2-3 dry patches. I have been using some brushes so long that I don't realize the resistance is decreasing until I put a new brush on and I can't hardly push it down the barrel. Always harder with the smaller calibers.

Just wondering if you have a routine on when to replace a brush.

Merry Christmas, tiny
Click to expand...

During a match is to run 10 - 15 strokes of Pro-Shots Copper Remover 4, let sit while reloading, then come back before next relay an run enough wet patches until I see no blue an all white. Then after the match has concluded..., trash the bronze brush until next match/practice session, But that's on a new barrel (low shot count). One a barrel that has a decent amount (1000 +), I normally run the same routine..., but every other relay..., not every relay.


Just my two cents, an merry holidays to all :)

JD
 
brushes

I buy 100 brushes at a time from Bruno, those will do me about two years.

My cleaning procedure is pretty standard, upon returning from the line, I run 3 wet patches through the bore, then I brush, about 10 strokes. I then run enough wet patches through to remove the "brush blue", and I let soak while I load for the next relay. Before I go to the line, I run a wet patch, then how ever many dry patches it takes to get the barrel reasonably dry.

For what it is worth, for the past 6 years, I have not put anything in one of my competition barrels except Butches Bore Shine.

As for the brushes, when it feels like it isn't doing much, or is sheading too many bristels, I just screw another one on. I have enough junk to carry around without worrying about spray cans, water bottles, etc.....jackie
 
WOW..everyone is still using bronze bristle brushes after one of the better barrel makers recomend NOT using a wire brush..:eek:
Over on 6mmBR.com website there was an article on how the bronze bristle brushes we destroying the delicate crowns on all these match grade barrels..
stating that reversing the brush at the crown would wipe out the delicate crown..???
I still remain in the nylon brush camp myself..:D

"We recently had a discussion with the barrel-makers at Bartlein Barrels. They confirmed that they have seen many, many more barrels harmed by crown damage caused by improper cleaning than by anything else. If you use a bronze brush, Bartlein recommends that you remove the brush after it passes through the muzzle. This is because the bristles take a set (pointing to the breech) during the out-stroke. In other words the bristles angle back as you push towards the muzzle from the breech. If you drag the brush backwards at the muzzle, you force these bristles to reverse direction abruptly right as they cross the delicate crown. In time, that can damage the crown. John Krieger of Krieger Barrels also advises his customers not to pull a bronze brush backwards across the crown.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Crowns and Brushes

I don't disagree with our fine barrel makers on many things, but on this one, I think they are overplaying the situation.

I set my barrels back on a regular basis, and in the proccess, inspect the crowns. Not only with a 10x loop, but with a .0001 indicator if I decide to chuck it up.

I have never seen any evidence of damage caused by a bronze brush.

Now, what I HAVE seen damage from is shooters using those long strokes, allowing the cleaning rod tolay on the bottom of the bore, while traveling at high speed. This will, over a period of time, damage the bore.

The simple fix to that is simply stop the brush, or patch jag, the instant in clears the bore.

Of course, if you can't sleep at night believing that you brush is destroying your barrel, then by all means follow their procedure.........jackie
 
jackie schmidt said:
I don't disagree with our fine barrel makers on many things, but on this one, I think they are overplaying the situation.

I set my barrels back on a regular basis, and in the proccess, inspect the crowns. Not only with a 10x loop, but with a .0001 indicator if I decide to chuck it up.

I have never seen any evidence of damage caused by a bronze brush.

Now, what I HAVE seen damage from is shooters using those long strokes, allowing the cleaning rod tolay on the bottom of the bore, while traveling at high speed. This will, over a period of time, damage the bore.

The simple fix to that is simply stop the brush, or patch jag, the instant in clears the bore.

Of course, if you can't sleep at night believing that you brush is destroying your barrel, then by all means follow their procedure.........jackie
Click to expand...

Well said Jackie.

A brass or bronze brush doesn't harm barrel steel. It will not remove barrel steel even though a lot of guys will say that brushes scuff steel or scratch it. The only scuffing or scratching that they are noticing if the the actual truth be told is the brush polishing the steel. A brush is not as hard as steel, therefore it can't remove steel. I think that nylon brushes don't really do much if any to remove copper, lead, or heavy carbon fouling in a bore.

There are a lot of brush myths out there that get floated around the net or from shooters who really don't know what the heck they are talking about, but it sounds good when they are spreading their opinions and they just keep on adding to the myths without knowing the facts.
 
jackie schmidt said:
Now, what I HAVE seen damage from is shooters using those long strokes, allowing the cleaning rod tolay on the bottom of the bore, while traveling at high speed. This will, over a period of time, damage the bore.
Click to expand...
I shoot with a guy who took a barrel out in a few hundred rounds because he wasn't rodding straight, threw a bend on it & ground off the lands 6-7" in.
 
Bronze Brushes

I totally agree with Jackie, first of all I probably would have quit shooting if
I had to take the brush off at the muzzle each time. I have checked a lot of crowns and brushes do no harm. Most of the damage is done with a loose brush or jag hitting the meaty part of the core. Further more if you are not using a brass brush to clean you are not able the get the powder fouling out, copper is the easy part the chemicals desolve it rather than having to scrub it.
 
I don't use any brushes. I really don't see the need to. I haven't used a brush since about 1990. The way I clean my barrels I don't see a need to use a brush.

I tell guys this. If you want to use a brush use a one caliber smaller or worn out one and wrap a patch around it. Push breech to muzzle. When you exit the muzzle remove the brush. Don't drag the brush back over the crown. Number one thing we see damaged to a barrel is the crown.

This is what everyone has to keep in mind. Regardless of how I or the next guy down the street cleans his gun I tell guys this. If you have a cleaning system that works for you and you get the barrel clean and are not damaging/wrecking anything than I will not be the first to say you are doing it wrong and just because the next guy cleans his differently doesn't mean he is doing it better than you.

Even in custom barrels and buying from the same maker on a regular basis you can get some that clean easier than others etc....Some foul more than other etc.....You should still treat each one as a individual and look to see what it is telling you. A lot of people over clean and do more damage than good. I saw it to much when I was at Krieger and still see it here. I see it at matches also regardless of the type of match being shot. High Power, Bench etc....

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
 
Stephen, Reread the post I made.

I said, "This is what everyone has to keep in mind. Regardless of how I or the next guy down the street cleans his gun I tell guys this. If you have a cleaning system that works for you and you get the barrel clean and are not damaging/wrecking anything than I will not be the first to say you are doing it wrong and just because the next guy cleans if differently doesn't mean he is doing it better than you.

Not using a brush works for me. I have no accuracy issues etc.....it is what I'm comfortable with.

Yes some barrels shoot better than others dirty etc....again reread the post. Look to see what the barrel is telling you and what it likes. Cleaning etc.....

Jackie, You also made a good comment about setting the barrels back on a regular basis and inspecting the crowns. Some of this is overlooked.

The only question I have for some is this. Why then when most barrels are damaged why is the crown the part of the barrel that seems to be the first thing that gets damaged more than anything else. How is it being damaged. The way it is being cleaned is our first suspect. Is the guy using a stainless metal cleaning rod and it is dragging on the edge of the crown? The list is can be endless.

Yes you also get a gas cutting effect from the powder and this will wear the crown also and boat tail bullets will do it worse than flat base bullets. Keep in mind they're are a lot of variables. Again it was nice for Jackie to say he inspects his barrels on a regular basis and I think it is important for people to look over they're equipment on a regular basis.

Eww1350 made the comment about what John Krieger said also. He advises the same thing about dragging the brush back over the crown. I'm not saying it is the total cause of damage but it should be watched. Thanks Eww1350!

Later, Frank
 
Frank,
How do you clean, and what calibers and powders do you use the most? Since you make barrels, and probably own a bore scope ;), maybe I could learn a thing or two.:D
 
Last edited:
I myself would much rather use a hard stainless steel rod with a rockwell hardness of 35 on the Rockwell C scale like Denny Phillips rods. Most barrel steel has a rockwell hardness of about 29. You want the rod to be harder than the barrel steel so that if the rod flexes, it will return back to being perfectly straight. Bill Myers can tell you about how a rod that is a certain hardness will take on a spring temper effect and make it harder to bend the rod. Denny polishes his rods to look like chrome. A good, hard, smooth, polished rod will glide easily across the barrel steel even if it does come in contact with it which minimal contact is almost unavoidable to some degree. A polished rod will less likely allow contaminents to adhere to the rod, too. I have used the cheaper softer one piece rods, and I can tell you from experience that Denny Phillips rods will smoke em. The worst thing you can do to a barrel is push a bent rod through the bore. I have tested a lot of the so called good rods, and I can tell you they aren't all straight even when they are brand new.

I will also bet that a lot of the barrels that were prematurely worn out due to cleaning or even over cleaning were in fact caused by either user error, a cheap bore guide that wasn't bored to fit the rod or line up perfectly with the chamber, or a rod that was bent and used and the shooter unaware of it. It's very easy to see if a rod is bent. All you have to do is roll the rod on a flat smooth surface with the handle just off the edge of that surface. I will also tell you that a rod that is softer than the actual barrel steel even if it is straight when new, won't stay straight very long. It never hurts to test your rod for straightness ever so often. The Phillips rod I have was perfectly straight the day I got it, and it remains perfectly straight to date.

http://ivyrods.com/
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Stephen Perry said:
Your better at making barrels than cleaning them. Nice try you have continued that push and remove brush idea again. Why not just use tampons that fit the barrel. All my Krieger barrels shoot better clean than dirty using bronze brushes.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
Click to expand...

maybe thinking before punching keys on the keyboard will help you in the confrontation arena here. Have you seen the inside of Franks barrels? He offered a opinion and has to contend with your post afterwards. I do almost exactly what he described in his post and I would be willing to bet your barrels get no cleaner than mine. clean is clean!

my handle, Ron Tilley
 
Guys,
Tiny answered his own question(you replace a bronze brush when it loses resistance).This ain't rocket science,we're cleaning gun barrels here.
On the sub topic of "can bronze brushes cause crown damage"or "can haphazard cleaning wreck a barrel " I gotta say Yes! If you watch the average group of shooters clean their barrels at a match you will get an eyefull.Crappy cleaning rod guides(sorry Sinclair,we love you guys but you should make a BR rod guide).Worn out rods(coated rods with the coating chipped off near the end)carbon rods with the crimped on ferrules that smack the crown every time you pull them back through the bore.Froze up bearings,It's frightening!
Now check out the gunsmiths and barrel makers as they clean their barrels.Quality bore guides and rods,polished and tuned jags and brushes.Something else as well, they are VERY careful and deliberate as they clean.They put a lot of time and effort into making and chambering these barrels and they are not about to kick the crap out of them with a rude cleaning job.
So if a barrel maker wants to take his brush off every time he exits the muzzle, I can understand why,but I don't think it's realistic in a competitive environment.The underlying message here is, to clean your barrel carefully.
Joel
 
thinking out loud

I certainly don't have the experience to offering much here and since this was my original question, I have another? Why not just make a bore guide for the crown end of the barrel? Slide/clamp it on the end of the barrel and it would hold the brush/jag in perfect alignment on the return stoke. You could even design it with a solvent/patch trap on the end to aid in range clean-up and cut down on the environmental hazard of breathing in some of the more toxic solvents. Put some little plastic fingers in it to assure alignment of the rod on return.

Bash away if that is a bad idea. Just thinking out loud. Maybe it has been tried.

tiny
 
Frank Green said:
Stephen, Reread the post I made.

I said, "This is what everyone has to keep in mind. Regardless of how I or the next guy down the street cleans his gun I tell guys this. If you have a cleaning system that works for you and you get the barrel clean and are not damaging/wrecking anything than I will not be the first to say you are doing it wrong and just because the next guy cleans if differently doesn't mean he is doing it better than you.

Not using a brush works for me. I have no accuracy issues etc.....it is what I'm comfortable with.

Yes some barrels shoot better than others dirty etc....again reread the post. Look to see what the barrel is telling you and what it likes. Cleaning etc.....

Jackie, You also made a good comment about setting the barrels back on a regular basis and inspecting the crowns. Some of this is overlooked.

The only question I have for some is this. Why then when most barrels are damaged why is the crown the part of the barrel that seems to be the first thing that gets damaged more than anything else. How is it being damaged. The way it is being cleaned is our first suspect. Is the guy using a stainless metal cleaning rod and it is dragging on the edge of the crown? The list is can be endless.

Yes you also get a gas cutting effect from the powder and this will wear the crown also and boat tail bullets will do it worse than flat base bullets. Keep in mind they're are a lot of variables. Again it was nice for Jackie to say he inspects his barrels on a regular basis and I think it is important for people to look over they're equipment on a regular basis.

Eww1350 made the comment about what John Krieger said also. He advises the same thing about dragging the brush back over the crown. I'm not saying it is the total cause of damage but it should be watched. Thanks Eww1350!

Later, Frank
Click to expand...

frank,
do not let this poser pull you into its world. there is an ignore function on this board, do a search and use it.
there are useful posters and there are posers......
sorry to see a member of the manufacturing side of our world pulled down by his poor behavior.
mike in co
 
A clean barrel is a happy barrel and brushes are required. My tubes (Kriegers and one or two others) are cleaned correctly and the crowns are not damaged. The bore scope does not lie....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top