bolt handle soldering

C

c.g

Guest
best type of solder for soldering a bolt handle.would the solder pastes be a good choice for this job,or would hi-force 44 be strong enough?the paste have a high melt temp so does that mean it has a higher tensile strength. thanks
 
High temperature silver solder is much stronger...
 
Try this place http://sra-solder.com/section.php/2/1 This is what I have used in the past, Ill go to my shop and get the p/n that I used. I have been told that this is the product that Remington uses 2nd hand info however. Tig welding is also an option search Dans40X he can help with the welding.ETA the matl. I used was STL-1205-655.
 
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Absolutely use silver solder . Over the years I have replace many abused Rem 700 and 788 bolt handles using silver solder paste . Easier to use than a ribbon or wire silver solder .

Chris
 
According to Otteson in his first book " BOLT ACTIONS", Rem bolt heads and handles are furnace brazed with copper at about 2000°F. This procedure was developed to allow subsequent heat treating at 1500°F. without affecting the joints.

RWO
 
colchester said:
try this place http://sra-solder.com/section.php/2/1 this is what i have used in the past, ill go to my shop and get the p/n that i used. I have been told that this is the product that remington uses 2nd hand info however. Tig welding is also an option search dans40x he can help with the welding.eta the matl. I used was stl-1205-655.
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this must be the same paste brownells offers stl 1205 silver braze.never used the paste before looks like it be easier to use when setting up your bolt and handle in a jig .do you just clean apply the paste set the bolt handle heat till it flows? Thanks for the help
 
c.g said:
this must be the same paste brownells offers stl 1205 silver braze.never used the paste before looks like it be easier to use when setting up your bolt and handle in a jig .do you just clean apply the paste set the bolt handle heat till it flows? Thanks for the help
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Thats is esentially all that is reqiured I abrasive blast the contact areas then clean with degreaser apply the paste position the handle heat until it flows.
 
Looks like the place colchester mentioned is about $40.00 cheaper than Brownells for the exact same stuff.
 
I understood that Remington Brazed the bolt heads on after they are finished machined, in the final heat treated state. But you're saying that then they go through a 2000 degree heat, (which will totally anneal the steel), then they harden it at 1500 or so, then temper for strength.

That doesn't sound quite correct.

Or maybe the bolt head is not finished machined untill after it is brazed onto the bolt body........jackie
 
glbreil said:
Looks like the place colchester mentioned is about $40.00 cheaper than Brownells for the exact same stuff.
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Check with SRA with silver over $34.00 an ounce today the prices may have increased. I live very close to the factory where they make the stuff but they will only sell smaller amounts through the distributor.
 
Dan Armstrong in Fairbanks, Alaska tig welds these on as Colchester has stated , he does a superb job(have had him do probably ten for me and friends over the last 6-7 yrs.) mostly XP-100, prompt service and return time, great work. I think he has a post in the classified section now, maybe under miscellaneous?
Mack
 
Regular solder - 60%lead 40% tin. 450 deg F, - low strength.

"Silver solder" 95%tin, 5% silver (% varies) - 2-3 times as strong as regular solder. Needs 450-600 deg F. and more aggressive flux. Great for restoring old "regular solder" joints on shotgun ribs, etc.. This is HI-Force 44 and Stay Silv type solder.

"Silver braze" alloy 15-45% silver, remainder copper. Considerably stronger than "silver solder". The term is not properly used and it is often called "silver soldering" in the vernacular. Requires borax based flux and 1200 deg F. or so, depending on percentage of silver in the alloy. More silver in the alloy makes the solder able to flow into small spaces, less means thicker solidus state and gap bridging ability.

Copper or brass brazing - brass (copper and zinc) or copper alloys - 1850 + deg F. to flow and strong borax flux or inert atmosphere (furnace braze usually in the gun trade). Somewhat stronger than Silver braze if properly done. Could allow some carefull heat treatment after joining. 4140 steel in the gun trade is hardened below 1500 deg F. and is tempered around 900 deg. F. so it should survive normal heat treat. I'm working from memory here, but I believe the figures are approximately correct.

TIG welding - tunsten inert gas - 2500 + deg F., and actual melting of steel with or without filler metal, shielded by argon or other inert gas mixture. Fully as strong as the base materials (with some heat affected areas).

All in all, the bolt handle in the common shop should be put back on using silver braze. Silver braze pastes will work if things are dead nuts clean and things are fixtured and already "tinned". I haven't had much luck with pastes when used between raw steel surfaces, but it works fine on raw brass and copper and for repair use of tinned materials. My prep is usually to clean with solvent, then abrade, as sometimes the solvents will degrade the surface if you use them after the abrasion. I prefer to "capillary" a high silver alloy into the joint, but there are many good methods (even when I use a solder paste I usually also make sure the joint is full by addding a little extra solder to ensure a small fillet). Both heat control and proper fixturing are important.

If you have the time and money the TIG weld attachment is by far stronger and better, but this needs to be done by someone who has good equipment and solid experience.

Scott
 
jackie schmidt said:
I understood that Remington Brazed the bolt heads on after they are finished machined, in the final heat treated state. But you're saying that then they go through a 2000 degree heat, (which will totally anneal the steel), then they harden it at 1500 or so, then temper for strength.

That doesn't sound quite correct.

Or maybe the bolt head is not finished machined untill after it is brazed onto the bolt body........jackie
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what your concern is, but that's what Otteson reports. Are you thinking that heat treating after finish machining will not allow for any distortion? It might be that that they harden the bolt head and cocking notch selectively with induction coils, thus minimizing the distortion, but that is just a guess. Otteson doesn't comment further
except to say that Remington's fabrication procedure makes possible an action with excellent concentricity of bolt, receiver and barrel at lower cost and with better results than with traditional forged bolts.

RWO
 
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