Better Machinist than Trim Carpenter

Rustystud

New member
Not Gunsmithing but using my brain. I have a Compound Miter Saw and my girlfriend asked me to put red oak crown molding on the top of her kitchen cabinets. I thought this want be rocket science and I could figure it out. I knew the cuts would have to be right on because paint and filler are not an option. I started on one end and everything was going pretty good until I got to the first inside corner. I have read and studied everything there is on the internet. I have tried cutting it upside down up against the fence and facing away from the fence as described in the best instructions I have found. I have tried cutting it on the flat side with the miter and bevel settings found in the tables off the internet. Non have works to my satisfaction. I know there are many folks here that are much brighter than myself. I am open for suggestions. I have gone through 2 sticks of procatice pine molding.

Nat Lambeth
 
tape before cutting and restain before install ???

mike in co
 
My angles are not right..

Common sense would say these angles for the corner caninet would be 22.5 degrees. The wall corner behind the cabinet is 90 degrees. There are two equal corners across the face of the caninet. The protractor actually says they are 132.3 and 136.1 degrees and the miter setting is 23 and 26 degrees.

A friend told me to butt cut one end and cope the other. I was hoping to just miter both ends.

Nat Lambeth
 
Cope joints at Crown Molding

It is always best and really easiest if you cope the inside corners. Butt one length to the wall or cabinet and "cope" the other length to it w/a coping saw_ easier than it looks at first. Hold a length of crown up to another piece and trace the shape with a pencil_ cut to the line for a water-tight fit.

We are in the Kitchen business_ see Paula Deen's TV Kitchen Our craftsmen do it this way.

Good luck,

Bill Scheider
 
Nat

You have two options.

Hire a carpenter
Look for a new Girfriend:D

Of course there is the old tried and true method of waiting untill she is gone somewhere, hire the carpenter, and lie to your Girfriend by saying you did it.

That has worked with my wife over our 40 years of marriage quite well.......jackie
 
I've been on a job or two and known several trim carpenters. Few jobs seldom have true 90's, 45's etc. They get close but, they're still off. Stain grade crown is the hardest trim to run and you've bitten off a good bite. The trim needs to be cut upside down and sit against the fence just right. Most use a guide that’s set to the trim dimensions. This can be easily made with a piece of scrap c-clamped to the chop saw bed. Visualize the trim installed, the measurement from the wall to the front of the trim (against the ceiling) is the distance from the fence to the inside edge of the guide. If the trim is allowed to cant in the saw, the cuts off and it won’t work. Use a bevel square to establish the true angle of the walls and cabinets, use the guide as described and hopefully you're using a power chop saw. Most outline the trim dimensions on the wall and or ceiling with a pencil as a visual guide for installation. Good luck.


I'd opt for a carpenter.
 
Nat,
One important thing you have to watch out for with crown moulding. At the big box stores often the new trim gets added with the old. Check your profiles by laying the pieces end to end. Often what happens is the pieces are milled at diffrent times or suppliers and the profile does not match. You will NEVER get and acceptable miter with 2 diffrent runs of crown. I always buy my crown from a reputable yard and try to get it all from the same bundle. Even then I still check eack piece end to end just to make sure. It is time consuming but needed. Also the butt and cope is the way to go. I find a dremel tool with the little sanding drum really shines to fine tune the cope cut.

John Luitink
 
Definitely cope inside corners. Even if the corner is a true 90 degrees, you'll probably open the joint nailing it. A cope takes care of that.
 
What do I know? I would just cheat and use a bevel gage up against the work piece and transfer to the saw blade.:D
 
My stomach is sore now

Hi Nat,

My stomach is sore from laughing. Not at your predicament but the one I was in almost 20 years ago. I had three windows to trim for an A Frame home I was living in. The top window was a triangle. The other two were aposing widows, side by side further down the A frame. Each window had two 90 degree corners. The other two angles on each window were different. Added to that, the damn things weren't identical and even crooked.

I sanded and stained 147 feet of molding. By the time I was finished I had the nicest pile of kindling you ever saw.

I ended up hiring my neighbor and he was finished in two hours.

Get help while you still have your sanity.
 
not all crown is 45* you need to determine the spring angle first. or all your bevels. miters will be wrong. I cut crown flat on the bed of the saw, have run several 100,000 LF of it. I never cut inside miters everything gets coped with a jig saw, crown, chair rail, base, Do it once and you will throw away the coping saw....

ML
 
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I figured this out once myself........cheat.

Use inside corner blocks like these

http://www.hoganhardwoods.com/hogan/pages/products/02_Moulding/cb_02.htm

looks like this
inside%20corner%20blocks-small.jpg


then all the cuts on the molding are straight cut. Convince the GF that it is a decorative addition to the molding - and life is good.
 
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Cope, and make the cut so that the angle of the cut at the face of the molding that will show is slightly less than 90 degrees, and then install tight against the piece that was run into the corner. To get your line for making the cope cut, first make a cut like your were going to miter, where the cut meets the face is your line.
 
You got an easy project........be thankful you don't have a cathedral ceiling.:D

Scott D has it correct.......buy the corner blocks .....it will make it so much easier......so easy you can even crown mould slanted ceilings.

The problem is corners are most often not 90 degrees....and the ceiling to wall angle is not a true right angle due to spackle/ plaster joints....it is so easy to "roll" the crown moulding. All this expensive trim and you get big gaps between the trim and wall or ceiling. The blocks allow you to cheat the angle and get a tighter fit.
 
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Two things will help you install crown molding.
A Marking Block to mark the ceiling and wall as to where the crown should fall. If the crown is twisted as it goes into the corner, the apposing miter joint will be difficult to make. I mark all along the wall and ceiling every three or for feet to avoid any wavy lines.

The second thing is a small half round file. (For us amateurs) Cope the joint, but stay away from the line, about a 1/32 of an inch, the thickness of the coping blade. Then use the small file to sneak up on your final mark. Use a piece of scrap to check your fit before you take it to the wall.

Try to cope one end first before the crown is cut to length, use square cuts for length if you can. If the final piece needs to be coped on both ends, try to work it out that it is the shortest piece.
CrownMolding.jpg
 
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Nat,

Some good advice in these posts. I did finish carpentery back in my youth, and have run a bit of crown molding, chair railings and baseboards that required coping.

As stated, check your material. If it's not all the same width, you'll drive yourself nuts.

I always cope my inside corners, as I have never been able to get a satisfactory look and finish with 45's. A lot of times there is a build up of texture/drywall mud in the corner that prevents one from getting the work all the way in the corner, and the 45'd joints don't look too shiny.

Despite having an infinitly adjustable compound miter Makita chop saw, I hold my work up against the fence as it will be on the wall, and make my cuts. 90's are no problem. With 45's, I measure to the top side of the crown molding that I have installed to get my measurement, mark, and cut accordingly on the piece to be installed.

To set up a coping cut, I hold the molding as described and cut a 45. You then take the coping saw and cut to the inside portion of the 45. If your material is stained, you'll be cutting away the unstained portion of the 45...cutting right up to the stain line. Make some relief cuts straight in from the end of the cut up to the stain line. As you cut, these relief cuts allow little pieces to fall off, making it easier for you to turn the saw blade as to follow the cut/stain line.

The dremel tool advice is spot on. They are great for taking the last bit up to your cut line. I also use it to cut a back relief on my coped piece to ensure there's no hang up there.

I make a slave piece of crown molding, about a foot long, with coped cuts on both ends so I can check fit before commiting a big piece.

On your 90 degree butts into an inside corner, don't nail in the last foot when you put it in. With the last foot not nailed, take your slave piece and run it into the opposite side of the corner and check fit. If it's good, finish nailing the 90 degree piece. Often it is not, due to warpage, texture, etc. You can use the slave piece and with some pressure, make it straight. If that doesn't work, trying twisting/pushing by hand to make it straight. Or you can use a thin chisel or something similar to tweak it to where you want it. You may have to shim it a bit. Once it's there, check fit with the slave piece and nail.

Also try and "hide your joint", i.e., plan your inside corners so that your 45'd and coped piece joint is on a wall that will tend to hide any gap. Often times, there are places in a room that don't get much traffic. Arrange your inside corner so that your coped piece, where your more likely to have a gap, faces that unused area of your room...make it less visible. Hope that makes sense.

All of the above is helped considerably by using very bad language throughout the process.

If it doesn't turn out, don't feel bad. My father, back in the day, used to machine a little titanium gizmo that went on the SR-71. He's a very good machinist. He couldnt make a decent joint with two pieces of wood if his life depended on it.

Justin
 
Thank You all for your advice..

Being a sucker for gadgets, I bought a Special jig for cutting crown molding in a miter saw. This jig allows for 38, 45, and 52 degree molding. The jig is made so one can make his cuts away from the fence so it is not reversed and or upside down. I will keep you posted on my success.

Nat Lambeth
 
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