Action truing options

M

mioduz

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I will be blueprinting or truing my first remington 700 (22-250). Can someone tell me about what kind of accuracy gains I should expect from reaming the actions and getting an oversized bolt? vs truing off of the existing bolt raceways?
 
mioduz said:
I will be blueprinting or truing my first remington 700 (22-250). Can someone tell me about what kind of accuracy gains I should expect from reaming the actions and getting an oversized bolt? vs truing off of the existing bolt raceways?
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I doubt you will see any accuracy differences between the two methods if both are done correctly and the quality of the barrels and chambering are equal... I also doubt there has been a definitive test done as well...
 
No one can predict X amount of accuracy gain. I'll go Dennis one further and say that you may not see any meaningful difference between truing and not truing. There's no easy way to say this but the best action in the world is no guarantee of success. Just like any barrel maker will tell you that his best barrel is not guaranteed to shoot tiny dots. A perfectly true and straight action coupled with the best barrel and perfect chambering may build your confidence enough that you'll shoot better, and the combination may actually shoot better in spite of your bench techniques, but it's all a lottery.
 
I believe that an Rem 700 action with a tight fitting bolt will perform better than it did with a sloppy bolt.
 
When a customer asks me about blueprinting an action I always tell them that it will help if the action is "out" somewhere. If the action is good and straight it won't help. Kinda like aligning the front end on your car.....if it ain't out it won't help but the only way to know is to blueprint it. The set up time to check everything will be as much as blueprinting.
 
My intention for this rifle is for it to be a tactical/varmint rifle. I have shot 1/4 MOA at 500 yards but with someone elses rifle. I would love to have a rifle that can do that of my own. Since this is my first blueprinting operation my plan is to order a new barrel (ive heard good things about krieger but through out any options i should look at), but before I even think about chambering the new barrel i was planning on using the original remington barrel, cutting off the old trunnion, rethread and chamber the original barrel. This is more so for practice so I do not damage the new barrel. I am interested to see if I assemble the newly chambered rem barrel how it will shoot.

Again this is all just for myself and its a hobby, I want the best results for my money and time. It seams as though alot of pros are leaning away from reaming the action
 
mioduz said:
It seams as though alot of pros are leaning away from reaming the action
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All you can do is set it up and check it and then decide from the results of those checks what route to take. As you're doing the work yourself there's no cost involved in the set up/checking time.
 
I don't tighten up the entire bolt, I just bush the section that engages the rear, which keeps the trigger cocking piece from lifting the bolt too much.

When I first did my old 721 project, I noticed that the firing pin strike was still a tad off center, despite my best truing efforts. I then bushed the rear section to where it only had about .001 clearance, and now the firing pin indention is dead center. It was cocking the bolt that much.
 
When you look at all the issues with a remington, most of the problems envolve the bolt. What I prefer doing
is to order a bolt from PT&G that just fits. Coned with sako extractor or std. You won't have to machine the lugs
or bush anything. That leaves the receiver face and threads the only area that needs attention. You will save time
and money. Both lugs will mate better than lapping a sloppy bolt which is near impossible.
 
I use the tooling P T & G sells for truing 700 action and bolts. I charge $150 and have no shortage of them to do. Doing the bolt is not big deal and lot less than replacing it. I never lap after machining the lugs, because you don't have to. Just a little sticky grease on them... I charge $75 for bumping the bolt but don't do that many. It doesn't make that much of a difference on the majority of varminter/hunter/precision rifles. I would not consider any Sako extractor conversion on a 700 of mine.
 
I've only had a couple 700s, and the only one we trued, we put a Savage bolt head(s) on. But what I've seen, and some experienced professionals have mentioned, is that the inside of the bolt, (firing pin fit, shroud, etc.), are just as important for benchrest accuracy.

Whether or not any particular action needs this depends on where it falls on that long, bell-shaped curve of "how close is it to being perfect" from the factory. As far as that goes, I've put a small delron washer in a custom action that had a similar "insides" to a Remington. It wasn't a clone, just a similarly designed firing system. The firing pin now drives straight at the nose end.

Also a question is whether or not true benchrest accuracy matters for the application.

* * *

Do the Kiff bolts come with a well-fitted shroud? Can you order them that way? Would make a difference to me as to which was less work -- redoing the existing bolt, or replacing it.

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Most everybody who has posted makes good points. Far as I'm concerned, "blueprint" means just that. The whole system has to work as designed. How much to actually do is a cost/reward thing.
 
Getting firing pins to function like they belong in a Benchrest rifle is really the frosting on the cake. Poor
quality shrouds are common, but the culprit is actually the bolts. I really doub't that the threads are put in
very many bolts with a piloted tap. Done in a machine or not, the threads are generally off axis. It is also possible
that there is distortion when the bolt handle is attached. The remington design which includes any and all clones
askes the firing pin to find the center on its own prior to striking the primer. By bushing the firing pin tip, you are actually
pre-alligning it before it moves. This along with some hand work on the cocking piece and shroud you can actually
get a long action rem to sound similiar to a 52 winchester. At 50 cents an hour, this is not real profitable as it sometimes
takes all day.
 
Dennis,
PTG sells two versions of the tooling. If the bolt is not replaced, is the lower priced one the one to get? I have several to do & been considering getting the PTG tooling.
Regards,
Ron
 
I bought 9 bushings and the piloted tap and the piloted cutter/facer for the standard thread 700, not the over size. I bought some bolt facing tooling from Brownells. The bushings go from .7010 to .7050. I cut the forend and butt stock off an old stock and use it to hold the action. I use the cutter/facer in the lathe at about 45 rpm and hold the action/stock by hand. I use the piloted tap by hand with the action/stock held in a vise.
 
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