243 problem

T

terryhawk

Guest
hello all,
i,m in need of some input here, i've quizzed all the local minds and i,m still not gaining on this problem. i have a 243 catbird (270win necked down to 243) rem 700 pacnor 1 in 7 twst i came across some berger 6mm 115gr vld which i was hoping to be just the pill for this gun. here,s my problem i loaded 12 rounds 6 of these hit under 1" 6 never touched the target, i mean hit the dirt at least a foot away! thinking i probably screwed up at the realoading bench i went back and carefully loaded 5 more ck'd everything twice case length, powder charge etc. cleaned the gun went back to the bench same thing 3 less than an inch 2 completly off the target what the heck is going on??anyone have any clues
 
Without actually seeing what was happening, I'd guess that the jackets are coming apart from the fast twist and likely high velocities for the bullets. You might want to send an e-mail to Berger, they can likely give you better advice on their bullets than anyone else.
 
I've found bullet jacket failure to be common with the 115's above 3000fps when fired from an 8" twist. By 3200 or so they'll pretty much all let go IME. Your 7" twister will probably be limited to under 3000, depending on the barrel. (Some rifling patterns/designs are more forgiving)

The new "thick" Bergers are being made specifically to combat this tendency. It's not a "flaw" per se, just the point at which these bullets fail. ALL bullets will fail at some point. I can't see any gain in letting Berger know.

al
 
I'd start by chronographing your loads. I'd like to know what velocity you're getting (handy information). That sounds like a great cartridge. It would also be good to shoot at a much larger paper target stapeled to a heavy cardboard backer. That will show you a "crisp" picture of the bullets (or jacket fragments) as they pass through the paper. That will give you more to talk about when you call Berger.

- Innovative
 
thanks to all for input!
spoke with tech assistance at berger they also think that the load is on the ragged edge velocity wise their advice was to back off the powder charge slightly and see what happens so i loaded 2 grs less( by the way i'm using 50 grs h-1000 as a starting load for this)i here's the new wrinkle they all hit the paper under an inch as the others but one key holed high and right 4 inches the hole is distinct the bullet was definately intact when it hit the paper. lost shooting light gonna set up the chrono tomorrow and ck velocity

thanks again, you guys were once again right on the mark with your advice

mark
 
243 Problem

I recently read about another shooter that was experiencing key holing on this website.

If I recall correctly he solved keyholing by single shot loading as bullets were being pushed back into case when attempting to load from magazine.

Would single shot loading be a consideration in your case?

Hope this helps!

Cob
 
Wow!...this is interesting....

I've got a Box of Berger 115VLD's intended for my 1-9 twist .257WBY. With the WBY quite capeable of high velocities with this bullet, what I'm reading here makes me wonder whether to even bother with them???:confused:

Rod.
 
Hey Terryhawk....

That .243/270 seems like a round capeable of high velocities. Have you ever checked out this bullet company?

http://gscustom.co.za/

These monometallic bullets will obviously not expand like lead-core bullets, but one thing is certain, they will not come apart due to high velocities!

The bullets from GSC are not cheap and it takes a while to receive them. I have successfully acquired some through a great distributor in Alaska. I have yet to reload with these but I'm up against the same issue as you are with my .257WBY; finding bullets that will withstand high velocities.

GSC seems to have quite a good selection of .243 bullets.

:)
 
terryhawk said:
hello all,
i,m in need of some input here, i've quizzed all the local minds and i,m still not gaining on this problem. i have a 243 catbird (270win necked down to 243) rem 700 pacnor 1 in 7 twst i came across some berger 6mm 115gr vld which i was hoping to be just the pill for this gun. here,s my problem i loaded 12 rounds 6 of these hit under 1" 6 never touched the target, i mean hit the dirt at least a foot away! thinking i probably screwed up at the realoading bench i went back and carefully loaded 5 more ck'd everything twice case length, powder charge etc. cleaned the gun went back to the bench same thing 3 less than an inch 2 completly off the target what the heck is going on??anyone have any clues
Click to expand...

Hey All,

Finally found out what a 243 Catbird is, heres a link

http://www.jarrettrifles.com/calibers.html

Very good description of the round, quite impressive.

My thoughts are that for the case capcity, considering the closet parent calibers that I can find with that weight of bullet, Powder, and some data available is the 270, 25.06 and 6-06 Ackley.

Think the powder charge is a tad bit too light for the case capacity of a necked down 06 Improved case. The 25.06 and the 270 will take between 8 and 11 grs more of the same powder as he is using. If the improved 35 deg shoulder is added in, give 1 to 2 grs more case capacity for the round. Its like owning a race car and driving it like grannys caddy.

Sugestion, Try a diffrent powder, look to the published loads of the calibers mentioned. Reloader 22 is a nice powder for the 06 class, and improved versions of the class. gives good velocity for the charge. H4831SC is another good powder. A 25.06, Nosler 115 grs, 52 grs reloader 22 chronys at 3000 fps right at the edge of what alinwa stated has been the problem with the Berger VLD.
Try to keep the powder charge of an 06, 06 improved class to at least 85% case capacity.

Good luck, Hope this helps

DR
 
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hey guys
clocked the rounds yesterday. as mentioned by most earlier, bullet failure is at 2880 fps anything under stays together. accuracy however ,shows real promise at 2850 unfortunatly at that speed it is somewhat similar to idling around with a 500hp hotrod .as far as case capacity i have tried rl-22 7828 as well as h-1000 all seem to show pressure signs with equivacal measured loads (within a gr or 2) i'm thinking a new barrel 9 or 10 twist is probably the only answer to maximize the potential of this cartridge.

thanks for the help everyone

mark
 
artist, you'll be fine with the 115's out of the 257
 
Ackleyredmist...Berger's and high velocities..not sure.

Well, I'd like to think that all will be well with the Berger 115's but there are some concerns. I talked with tech support at Berger and they advised that there should not be any problems - until I filled in a couple of details - then the prognosis changed a bit.

My Savage .257WBY has a 1-9 twist; a bit faster twist than usual for a .257WBY. The barrel is a 30 inch barrel with a very short (minimum) freebore, thus capable of producing some higher velocities.

Berger estimated that there should not be any problems with the 115 gr. VLD's up to around 3500fps; after that, who knows? I guesstimate that the Savage will produce velocities in the 3500fps range quite readily and therefore I'll at least be watching the 115's very closely but also looking to the GSC and Barnes bullets as possible alternative choices.

Rod.
 
Artist, i've seen 115's up to 3500. after that i can't tell you either bud
 
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