LV

Art Binley- 242-8X, 227-7X, 248-10X= 717-25X

248-11X, 241-10X, 245-6X= 734-27X

Ed Hosier- 249-12X, 249-10X, 249-16X= 747-38X

247-7X, 249-9X, 249-12X= 745-28X

John French- 246-10X, 244-5X, 246-8X= 736-23X

242-7X, 248-7X, 248-9X= 738-23X

HV

Pete Roberson- 249-11X, 248-11X, 250-17X= 747-39X

248-12X, 248-14X, 249-14X= 745-40X

Open

Paul Bendix -249-14X, 250-19X, 250-21X= 749-54X

Unlimited

Paul Bendix- 250-20X, 250-16X, 250-22X= 750-58X

John French was the only shooter not shooting a Thomas, he shoots a AA 400 MPR for LV class.

Next and probably last indoor match is Sunday, March 19th. Our first outdoor match is tentatively scheduled for Sat., April 15, hoping the snow is gone by then!

Todd Banks ]]>

A friend from TX called me and asked me about shooting BR in the rain, he read a post by someone at another forum and was confused and skeptical of ever shooting BR while raining…

I don’t read nor participate in that forum and I thought that this topic would be a good one to discuss here, where BR shooters meet and where there is a lot of knowledge and accumulated experience.

Before continuing, please go to the link below and read the

This guy from Kangaroo land states that he was able to see the pellet path of 3 pellets all the way to 71 yards while pouring rain at a rate of 1.5 inches/hour!!!…He then says that he saw those 3 pellets actually hit water droplets, saw the "splash" effect of the impact and that those same 3 shots impacted just 1/2” below the target…Tell me about the amazing accuracy of his gun at 71 yards!

Then there is the calculation of a BC for a rain droplet plugged into the equation as if water drops were the same size and NOT DYNAMIC and not varied in shape and volume/size over the fall and then the thread gets so out of hand into unrealistic and unproven external ballistics and other assumptions that it becomes pathetic and too boring to read…

To me BS may be entertaining when everyone knows it is BS and everyone is having fun…But non-sense, fabrications and complications that fall in the science fiction category are not fair nor legitimate for shooters who are looking for reliable information on these forums or anywhere else…I find that these kinds of guys looking for notoriety are usually loners who repeat and post their same BS over and over again everywhere, as if a lie repeated 1000 times will turn into something true or a fact.

The way I see it, this topic of rain and shooting accuracy is VERY SIMPLE and a matter of probability of certain events happening, but I may fall short on my perspective and this is why I post this thread for an honest discussion.

What do the military, most shooters and many long range champions say?

Experienced 1000 Yard shooters in the US all agree that rain DOES NOT interfere with the bullet path and that it doesn’t affect accuracy if they are able to see the target clear and the winds stay within 10-15 MPH…They all say that the rain actually HELPS them for improving their accuracy given the fact that they are able to SEE how the wind is blowing by the inclination of the rain and that there is no mirage when raining. One reason mentioned and frequently discussed is the shock wave traveling in front of the bullet that prevents rain from interfering with the bullet path, but let’s not introduce this variable to this discussion because we are talking about sub-sonic pellets that do not have this “shock wave protection” even though there is some push of air around the majority of pellets.

Anyone can look over a gun pointing at the target either over a bare barrel, over open sights or through a scope set at low power and try to determine how many droplets of water cross the path of the pellet in a time interval (second or split second) using a chronometer. OK, this is assuming we are doing this at short distances like 25 Meters for BR but I don't see it happening at 71 yards when pouring rain and when using a .177 caliber gun.

I lived in Idaho where our competitions always happened during rainy season and I don’t remember anyone ever having a flyer derived from hitting a rain drop or a snow flake and I shot for many, many years before moving to Montana-Texas.

Let’s review some data:

Note: I am using 50 yards to amplify and double the effect of shooting 25 M Benchrest.

50 Yards = 1800 inches

A .22 pellet covers an area of 396 square inches over a distance from of 50 yards (.22 x 1800=396)…We need this surface area to extrapolate some numbers as accumulation of water over this area as we will see below…

Data from the US Geo Dept. (Given data):

Rainfall of ½” per hour = Heavy rain with moderate 10-15 MPH winds

Rainfall of 1” per hour = Severe Storm with heavy winds usually 20 MPH+

For those who wonder: 1 inch of rain is the equivalent of 10 inches of snow.

Shooting when it is raining 1 inch per hour and more is gambling – wasting ammo…Too much target distortion, heavy winds, etc.

Shooting when it is raining at ½” per hour is doable and let’s use this data for our calculations…

A Rainfall of ½” inch = 198 cu inches of rain per hour inside the path of a .22 pellet from 0 to 50 yards as seen before (SQ. area x rain fall measured in inches)

396 cubic inches over that area if it rains 1” but half that number for ½” of rain per hour used in this exercise.

I cu inch = about 327 drops of water

198 cu inch = about 64,746 droplets

1 hour = 3600 seconds

So a rainfall of ½” per hour means 18 droplets per second over said path (Horizontal or trajectory) of this .22 pellet from 0 to 50 yards

Now let’s get some pellet data:

.22 JSB 15.9 gr. pellet shot at 24 ft./lb. or 825 ft./sec. at 50 yards

Time of flight to 50 yards is .202 seconds or 1/5 of a second (ChairGun)

So the 50 yard pellet trajectory will encounter 3.6 (let’s use 4) drops of water from 0 to 50 yards during its .202 second flight.

Now let’s get some water drops data to estimate for how long those droplets interfere:

Terminal velocity for a large water drop of rain is about 15 MPH or 950,400 inches/hour

It takes a drop or water 1/264 or roughly 4 thousands of a second to travel 1 inch

A .22 pellet is .22 of an inch in diameter and a drop of water of heavy rain (assuming same diameter) will stay .0008 of a second obstructing the horizontal or trajectory path of this pellet.

My Simple Analysis and Conclusion:

A pellet encountering 4 droplets of water crossing its 50 yard horizontal path (at some unknown point) and interfering with the trajectory for only .0008 of a second tells me that statistically it is pretty much IMPOSSIBLE to state that a pellet will collide with a droplet of water during its flight to the target…The probabilities are just not there.

Having said this, someone stating that 3 out of 10 pellets he shot at 71 yards are beating probability and statistics means to me that this guy needs to buy POWERBALL ! (Lottery for those outside the US),

Some years back our technicians at the lab used several high sensitivity-high end laser beams with a sensors/counters set at I believe a distance of 30 yards and aided by some 10 rain gauges to average and compare rain fall in that stretch…The idea was to estimate how much water would be on the path of a plane’s turbine during a storm and very important, if the rain distribution was uniform or not…This data was intended for discussing how much water would enter the turbines and other issues and not for validating turbine performance under these conditions or anything else...Regular laser beams penetrate water droplets and there is a high probability of not registering/counting accurately and there are also reflections & bouncing effects, etc...So a high sensitivity lab laser is required for alleviating most of these issues satisfactorily.

The lab results extrapolated to a .22 pellet and the exercise and the data discussed above came pretty close and my conclusions are that the example above provides enough and reliable statistical information for anyone evaluating this "Shooting in the rain" issue and wanting to estimate the probability of occurrence.

What is and has been other members experience?

Best regards for all members,

AZ ]]>

Match 1:

LV

1) Bill Tramel, 242-3x, 240-3x, 235-5x, = 717-11x

2) Dennis Kunkel, 240-5x, 239-5x, 236-6x, = 715-16x

HV:

1) Kim Zussman, 249-7x, 249-16x, 248-14x, = 746-37x

2) Wayne Morimoto, 248-11x, 243-12x, 240-8x, = 731-31x ( This was Wayne's first match with his new Thomas rifle)

Match 2:

HV

1) Kim Zussman, 243-6x, 248-5x, 247-13x = 738-24x

2) Bill Tramel, 247-7x, 245-7x, 246-5x, = 738-19x

3) Dennis Kunkel, 238-8x, 246-11x, 240-3x, = 724-22x

4) Doug Miller, 239-4x, 240-8x, 244-8x, = 723-20x

5) Vipha Miller, 238-6x, 243-1x, 239, = 720-7x

With all the rain we have been getting thanks to you that showed up for a nice sunny day.

Next Match March 12th

Regards,

Joe ]]>

Todd ]]>

It was another full house. Great to have so many shooters. HV is getting tough. Drop one or two

points and you are out of the running. We greatly appreciate the effort that Dick, Tony & Ed

make to come from the coast to shoot with us.

Shooter Class Equipment Tar. 1 Tar. 2 Tar. 3 Total

Relay I

Dick Strever LV Thomas BR .177 248 11x 249 16x 249 15x 746 42x

Bill Davis LV A.A. S400 MPR .177 242 7x 245 10x 241 5x 728 22x

Ron Silveira HV Thomas BR .177 250 14x 249 17x 250 14x 749 45x

Mike Aber HV R.A.W. TM1000 .177 247 10x 250 15x 250 15x 747 40x

Tom Santos HV Feinwerkbau P70FT .177 250 8x 250 13x 246 9x 746 30x

Steve Ware HV R.A.W. TM1000 .177 248 16x 249 10x 248 16x 745 42x

Frank Kodl HV Thomas BR .177 243 6x 243 7x 248 14x 734 27x

Ed Barone HV Benjamin Marauder .177 239 2x 241 8x 240 3x 720 13x

Tony Farcello SP Feinwerkbau S300 .177 225 0x 239 5x 227 0x 691 5x

Relay II

Frank Kodl LV Thomas BR .177 247 8x 241 3x 242 3x 730 14x

Dick Strever HV Thomas BR .177 250 17x 249 17x 248 17x 747 51x

Mike Aber HV R.A.W. TM1000 .177 248 12x 249 14x 250 17x 747 43x

Chris Lovitt HV R.A.W. TM1000 .177 250 12x 246 16x 250 18x 746 46x

Ron Silveira HV Thomas BR .177 249 16x 249 15x 248 13x 746 44x

Tony Farcello HV Feinwerkbau P70FT .177 241 8x 248 9x 244 7x 733 24x

Ed Barone HV Benjamin Marauder .177 232 2x 231 1x 229 3x 692 6x

Next rifle competition will be Indoors February 22 beginning at 9:15 am.

Steve Ware, Match Director ]]>

Didn't help the scores. Great Turnout! Shooters from Maine, New Hamshire, New York, Massachusetts even a couple from The Vinyard Great to see Stu and Robin again.

Results of Holbrook Scoreline indoor shoot Feb 4,2017

Springer Class

Mark Marini ,Holbrook FWB-300 240 7X, 242 3X, 240 5X, 722 15X

Stuart Spector, Holbrook FWB-300 232 6X, 238 5X, 244 10X, 714 16X

Bill Day, Holbrook FWB-300 239 3X, 244 5X, 229 5X, 712 13X

Bill Day, Holbrook FWB-300 239 6X, 241 7X, 230 4X, 710 17X

Chris Sloan, Holbrook FWB-300 234 5X, 234 5X, 233 2X, 701 12X

Robert Fisher, Holbrook FWB-300 192 2X, 221 1X, 224 4X, 637 7X

LV Class

Steve Grayner, Holbrook RAW 244 2X, 240 5X, 247 12X, 731 19X

Robin Zosack, Holbrook RAW 236 6X, 247 8X, 247 10X, 730 24X

David Shattuck, Holbrook AA S400, 242 5X, 241 9X, 246 9X, 729 23X

Howard Williams, Holbrook Walther, DNF, DNF, 235 1X, 235 1X Scope problem

HV Class

Mark Marini, Holbrook Thomas 249 11X, 250 18X, 250 16X, 749 45X

Ed Hosier, Salem NY Thomas 250 19X, 250 18X, 247 10X, 747 47X

David Shattuck, Holbrook RAW 248 17X, 250 14X, 249 16X, 747 40X

Ed Hosier, Salem NY Thomas 248 14X, 248 15X, 250 10X, 746 39X

Chris Sloan, Holbrook RAW 249 11X, 244 9X, 246 7X, 739 27X

Howard Williams, Holbrook Thomas 248 9X, DNF, DNF, 248 9X

Open Class

Paul Bendix, Holbrook,Thomas 250 17X, 250 12X, 250 18X, 750 47X

Next shoot March 4, 2017

Paul Bendix

Sent from my iPad ]]>

150 Quincy St

Holbrook, MA

Will be holding it's Feb.4 shoot this Sat. We had 4 Springers the last shoot!

Indoor Range #1 from 11:00-4:30.

Bill Day top springer score726-16X top card 247 4X with his FWB-300

Hope to see you Sat.

Paul Bendix ]]>

Ed is a very accomplished Rimfire Benchrest shooter but this was his first attempt at Air Rifle BR. He fired 5 shots at 50' at his home range to get sighted in, drove 2.5hrs to Salem, and proceeded to shoot a 750 on his first set of HV targets! Pete Roberson had to wait till his second set of targets to shoot his 750, agging 1499-104X for 6 targets! Paul wasn't far behind with a 1498-95X agg, including a match high 250-23X.

Here are the complete results, with everybody shooting two HV matches except for Paul and John who both maxed out their allowed number of HV targets, a rule I highly disagree with.

HV Match 1:

Ed Hosier (Thomas BR)- 250-6X, 250-10X, 250-17X= 750-33X

Pete Roberson (Thomas BR)- 250-17X, 250-17X, 249-16X= 749-50X

Paul Bendix (Thomas BR)- 249-13X, 250-13X, 250-12X= 749-38X

Art Binley (Thomas BR)- 250-17X, 247-14X, 248-15X= 745-46X

Todd Banks (TM-1000X)- 248-10X, 250-12X, 246-12X= 744-34X

John French (AA HFT500)- 245-6X, 246-12X, 246-5X= 737-23X

HV Match 2:

Pete Roberson- 250-18X, 250-20X, 250-16X= 750-54X

Ed Hosier- 248-11X, 249-13X, 247-13X= 744-37X

Todd Banks (TM-1000)- 245-8X, 248-8X, 247-6X= 740-22X

Art Binley- 207-6X, 248-10X, 249-9X= 704-25X

Open

Paul Bendix- 250-23X, 250-18X, 249-16X= 749-57X

We shoot every Wed. evening and Sunday morning at Salem and anyone is welcome to join us whenever you have a chance. We have equipment to loan, just let us know in advance what you need.

Todd Banks ]]>

Sorry I missed this one. The creepy crud invaded my body. Congratulations to Chris for taking HV in both relays. Tony keeps shooting in the 700’s in Spring Piston regularly, very consistent. I do believe we have Bill Davis hooked. Great to have you, Bill.

Shooter Class Equipment Tar. 1 Tar. 2 Tar. 3 Total

Relay I

Dick Strever LV Thomas BR .177 246 11x 246 10x 249 16x 741 37x

Mike Aber LV Thomas BR .177 250 10x 245 5x 244 9x 739 24x

Bill Davis LV A.A. S400 MPR .177 237 4x 240 7x 249 7x 726 18x

Chris Lovitt HV R.A.W. TM1000 .177 248 17x 250 15x 249 16x 747 48x

Ron Silveira HV Thomas BR .177 250 15x 249 16x 248 10x 747 41x

Tom Santos HV Feinwerkbau P70FT .177 246 7x 240 4x 250 12x 736 23x

Frank Kodl HV Thomas BR .177 244 9x 240 7x 242 6x 726 22x

Tony Farcello SP Feinwerkbau 300S .177 238 3x 231 2x 233 6x 702 11x

Relay II

Mike Aber LV Thomas BR .177 248 5x 250 15x 248 10x 746 30x

Frank Kodl LV Thomas BR .177 244 10x 239 6x 247 7x 730 23x

Chris Lovitt HV R.A.W. TM1000 .177 250 18x 248 16x 250 13x 748 47x

Dick Strever HV Thomas BR .177 249 13x 250 12x 247 16x 746 41x

Ron Silveira HV Thomas BR .177 246 15x 250 15x 248 11x 744 41x

Tony Farcello HV Feinwerkbau P70FT .177 247 6x 250 11x DNF 497 17x

Next rifle competition will be Indoors February 8 beginning at 9:00 am.

Steve Ware, Match Director ]]>

Thanks,

Pete ]]>