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View Full Version : Adjusting 6 PPC Loads During the Day



Kyle Schultz
07-23-2018, 02:17 PM
I'm new to the 6 PPC. I've been reading that it is recommended to adjust loads (generally up) during the day as temperature and humidity change. That seemed reasonable enough until I read in an article by James Mock that this adjustment was necessary because atmospheric changes affect how much powder a volumetric measure will actually dispense. That consequence suggests to me that these adjustments are actually needed to compensate for variations (errors?) in the actual powder charge more so than differences in the bullet's trajectory. If I'm weighing my individual charges at home in a controlled environment and storing them in sealed glass vials until I dump them into the gas and seat the bullet at the range, should I expect the same variations as those who throw their charges at the range? I'm guessing no.

pablo
07-23-2018, 02:31 PM
I'm new to the 6 PPC. I've been reading that it is recommended to adjust loads (generally up) during the day as temperature and humidity change. That seemed reasonable enough until I read in an article by James Mock that this adjustment was necessary because atmospheric changes affect how much powder a volumetric measure will actually dispense. That consequence suggests to me that these adjustments are actually needed to compensate for variations (errors?) in the actual powder charge more so than differences in the bullet's trajectory. If I'm weighing my individual charges at home in a controlled environment and storing them in sealed glass vials until I dump them into the gas and seat the bullet at the range, should I expect the same variations as those who throw their charges at the range? I'm guessing no.

That should probably work just fine, except you'll probably need a tuner on the barrel to compensate for vibration differences due to the increase in velocity as temps go up during the day. There are quite a few guys that shoot very well doing what you're thinking about.

Boyd Allen
07-23-2018, 05:08 PM
I'm new to the 6 PPC. I've been reading that it is recommended to adjust loads (generally up) during the day as temperature and humidity change. That seemed reasonable enough until I read in an article by James Mock that this adjustment was necessary because atmospheric changes affect how much powder a volumetric measure will actually dispense. That consequence suggests to me that these adjustments are actually needed to compensate for variations (errors?) in the actual powder charge more so than differences in the bullet's trajectory. If I'm weighing my individual charges at home in a controlled environment and storing them in sealed glass vials until I dump them into the gas and seat the bullet at the range, should I expect the same variations as those who throw their charges at the range? I'm guessing no.

Do you really think that the top shooters would be loading at the range if they could win preloading? Are you planning on shooting registered matches? If you are serious, copy the winners.

Tim Singleton
07-23-2018, 05:17 PM
Kyle
I'm far from an expert. There is so much more involved with tuning a ppc to its potential than changing powder weight thru the day. If you are not competing then it doesn't matter.
Sometimes you will need to make a seating depth change to get things to come around or even a totally different powder than what worked the day before
A few are making it work with some success by and large not so much

jackie schmidt
07-23-2018, 05:46 PM
Kyle, you need to get a RCBS ChargeMaster if you want to weigh charges.

I have been using one for a couple of years at Matches, and more and more shooters are using them.

As for adjusting loads, for years I increased the charge by about .3 grn as the humidity went down, (133). But since I can no longer shoot in that upper load window, I can't say what's best.

I'm not even shooting the regular 6PPC combo any more. I have switched to 80 grn Barts, 1-12 twist Barrels with a .140 throat, and 4895. In first Group Match in HV at Seymore, it shot very well and is easy on components.

Chism G
07-23-2018, 07:13 PM
[QUOTE=jackie schmidt;811552]them.

(133). But since I can no longer shoot in that upper load window, I can't say what's best.


I remember, several years ago, when you were shooting brass wrecking loads in a 6PPC and regularly kicking ARSE.

An explanation as to why you can no longer shoot hot loads would satisfy the curiosity of some 6PPC fans.

Got tired of beating up on us? Brass too expensive? Winners nightmares? etc, etc,:D

I apologize if you've already provided an explanation. I haven't been hanging around here a lot lately.


Glenn

Butch Lambert
07-23-2018, 07:43 PM
Glenn, Are you going to Arkansas?

Richard
07-24-2018, 08:54 AM
very well if you know how to run a tuner.

Richard

Kyle Schultz
07-24-2018, 03:07 PM
But I do believe, however, we've lost something in translation. I'm not planning to bring 200 rounds of ammunition already loaded at the same powder charge/seating depth and use that one load regardless of what the target says. What I am considering is pre-weighing individual charges and storing them in capped glass vials. I have 3 cases each holding 144 vials. The budget I'm contemplating is 1 case (144 charges) at my base load. 1 case containing 72 charges 0.1 gr above and below the base, and 1 case holding 48 vials +/- 0.2 grs relative to the base charge and 24 vials holding +/- 0.3 grs relative to the base charge. Will still dump charges and seat bullet at match. I'm having a hard time rationalizing the use of a powder thrower whose repeatability is +/- 0.2 grs. Good luck to us all!

Tim Singleton
07-24-2018, 03:13 PM
Yes, quite a few people used to do just as you describe. Everyone I knew that made the effort to loads vials have given it up for one reason or the other
Some just decided they couldnít tell a difference on target from thrown charges
Some went to battery powered chargemasters
I havenít seen anyone in a couple years carrying a box of vials
No reason to not try it for yourself tho at all

jackie schmidt
07-24-2018, 04:01 PM
[QUOTE=jackie schmidt;811552]them.

(133). But since I can no longer shoot in that upper load window, I can't say what's best.


I remember, several years ago, when you were shooting brass wrecking loads in a 6PPC and regularly kicking ARSE.

An explanation as to why you can no longer shoot hot loads would satisfy the curiosity of some 6PPC fans.

Got tired of beating up on us? Brass too expensive? Winners nightmares? etc, etc,:D

I apologize if you've already provided an explanation. I haven't been hanging around here a lot lately.


Glenn

Glenn, the brass will no longer take 30.3 to 30.5 grns of 133 without primer pockets and case heads swelling to and extent that they are severely compromised.

I lived for a long time using as my base load 30.2 grns with a 68 grn bullet and a relative humidity in the 70 percent or higher range. If a front or something cased the humidity to fall down below 40 percent, a increase of .2 to .3 grns would keep the rifle shooting.

Those days are gone.

So I'm trying something different.

Hunter
07-24-2018, 04:22 PM
What I am considering is pre-weighing individual charges and storing them in capped glass vials. I have 3 cases each holding 144 vials. The budget I'm contemplating is 1 case (144 charges) at my base load. 1 case containing 72 charges 0.1 gr above and below the base, and 1 case holding 48 vials +/- 0.2 grs relative to the base charge and 24 vials holding +/- 0.3 grs relative to the base charge.

So, what happens if the 24 vials of + 0.3 grs shows the best load?

hayscott
07-24-2018, 07:35 PM
Kyle, with all the vials of pre weighed charges, itís making more of it than it is, in this sport being +/- .01 doesnít make a difference! Guys kick tail every weekend throwing charges, a chargmaster makes it easy as there is a certain amount of technique in throwing consistency and you need a really good measure to start with.

The chargmaster is close enough for what we do and you easily have time between matches to reload 10-15 rounds and your not locked in with what loads you brought. I like to go to the line with at least one or two different loads to test after my first group and then work around what looks like is doing best. Iíve had 133 shoot good from 27.8 to 30.2 and sure donít want to be painted into a corner with only able to shoot with what I brought from the house!

Kyle Schultz
07-24-2018, 07:38 PM
So, what happens if the 24 vials of + 0.3 grs shows the best load?I don't win the match. (shrug)

Gene Beggs
07-24-2018, 08:17 PM
I'm new to the 6 PPC. I've been reading that it is recommended to adjust loads (generally up) during the day as temperature and humidity change. That seemed reasonable enough until I read in an article by James Mock that this adjustment was necessary because atmospheric changes affect how much powder a volumetric measure will actually dispense. That consequence suggests to me that these adjustments are actually needed to compensate for variations (errors?) in the actual powder charge more so than differences in the bullet's trajectory. If I'm weighing my individual charges at home in a controlled environment and storing them in sealed glass vials until I dump them into the gas and seat the bullet at the range, should I expect the same variations as those who throw their charges at the range? I'm guessing no.


Kyle, I don't know how long you have been shooting, what your level of experience is etc., but as a retired engineer you certainly have the qualifications to succeed at 100/200 yard group shooting if you have the patience and desire. It's a tough game and you will not reach the top in a year or two but if you are one who enjoys the study of extreme rifle accuracy, interior and exterior ballistics, gunsmithing, mythbusting, etc., it's a fascinating study. I've been at it for thirty years and I'm still learning new things almost daily. After retiring in 2002 I built a 100 yard test tunnel that has taught me a lot about benchrest rifle accuracy.

I suggest you drive out I-20 to Odessa and let's meet. I can help you. If you have an RV I suggest bringing that because with the present oil boom that's going on hotel rooms are outrageous.

In post number 8, Richard Brensing gave you some good advice about learning to use a tuner.

I know where you're at and know how you feel. I've been there.

The best way to contact me is by e-mail. genebeggs@cableone.net

I'll be looking forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely

Gene Beggs

Chism G
07-24-2018, 10:25 PM
[QUOTE=Chism G;811556]

Glenn, the brass will no longer take 30.3 to 30.5 grns of 133 without primer pockets and case heads swelling to and extent that they are severely compromised.

I lived for a long time using as my base load 30.2 grns with a 68 grn bullet and a relative humidity in the 70 percent or higher range. If a front or something cased the humidity to fall down below 40 percent, a increase of .2 to .3 grns would keep the rifle shooting.

Those days are gone.

So I'm trying something different.



Understood.

Chism G
07-26-2018, 01:27 PM
I remember hearing about a competitor that won the Super Shoot, shooting preloaded 6PPC ammo. It would be interesting to hear his opinions concerning preloads. I don't remember his name.

Never say never in this Sport. Thats what makes it so much fun.



Glenn

JDMock
07-26-2018, 01:29 PM
I remember hearing about a competitor that won the Super Shoot, shooting preloaded 6PPC ammo. It would be interesting to hear his opinions concerning preloads. I don't remember his name.

Never say never in this Sport. Thats what makes it so much fun.



Glenn

Glenn, his name was Hall from Georgia and unfortunately he has passed away since winning the SS in 2002 (I believe). James

Chism G
07-26-2018, 01:33 PM
Glenn, his name was Hall from Georgia and unfortunately he has passed away since winning the SS in 2002 (I believe). James



Thanks James. I sometimes suffer from that debilitating disease called CRS.




Glenn

Pete Wass
07-28-2018, 10:04 PM
I remember someone posting the only reason he was able to win the SS was the weather never changed the entire weekend. Don't know if that was a fact or someone trying to preserve tradition. Difficult to imagine weather not changing at all for that long.

I have owned several 6 PPC's and never shot one in a match, afraid my pre-loads would not be good enough to win. I also never wanted to be involved with loading at the range so I opted to shoot 30's and never looked back. I have only shot in one Registered Group match and managed a third place in it. No desire to continue with shooting group. No desire to fool with evil rifles that won't stay in tune either.

Pete

Chism G
07-29-2018, 09:16 AM
There is no such thing as weather being the same all weekend long. Its always cool in the AM with temperature increases or decreases, as the day progresses. This swing causes some powders, used in the 6PPC, especially V- 133, to go in and out of tune during the match. At least, thatís been my personal experience.

I cannot emphasize enough, the significance of the Sports History/evolution.

15 years ago, When I heard that a Competitor had won the SS using preloaded ammo, I immediately started asking a bunch of questions. Was he using a tuner. Remember this was in 2002. What powder did he preload? Unfortunately, the only explanation for this incredible achievement was that it was just a stroke of Luck.

My idea of luck, when it involves shooting, is when a Sniper makes a one shot kill on a target at a distance of 1000yds.

I never try to discourage a new shooter from experimenting when it comes to the search for extreme accuracy in the BR game.


Glenn