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g n brezinski
06-10-2018, 05:16 AM
given your 6 mm ppc cases how do you prepare them to shoot in your rifles?do you neck turn them 2 or 3 times and weigh the cases ?do you shoot them then neck turn again?
thank you for your imput on this.
gary b

Melvin Scott
06-10-2018, 02:09 PM
If you are shooting a rifle with a .262 or similar chamber it may take two passes to turn them. I prefer a .268, i cut them in a single pass
-neck it up to 6mm
-turn necks so the loaded neck dimension is .002-.003 smaller than chamber
-check how brass chambers, a shoulder bump may be needed depending on chamber
-load bullets for a hard jam and go shooting
-after cases are fireformed check for the shortest case and trim them all to that length
That is my method. Never had a problem.
You can fireform brass before you turn them but it is more complicated and i dont care for it.
Sorting cases by weight has no benefit in shortrange benchrest imho if you use lapua.

jackie schmidt
06-11-2018, 10:16 AM
I blow my cases out before I turn them, (.269 neck), but it's just as good to turn them and then fire. I trim them to length after turning. Regardless, you have to fire them twice before they are ready to go to the line.

I notice at Seymour this past week end that several prominent shooters were using Norma PPC cases, with good results.

As for weight, I buy them sorted, +- . 2 grn. They cost a tad more, but to me it's worth it. But that being said, I'm not real sure sorting by weight makes any difference. I do it just because I have always done it.

By the way, the only reason I use a .269 is ease in turning. One pass does it. That's it.

g n brezinski
06-11-2018, 07:06 PM
i have read the article by t j jackson in ps magizine from years ago .my ? is do you need perfect necks to shoot small ags .he states that is what showed up in that texs warehouse.to get in the zeros in groups you needede perfect necksnow i do not shoot competion ,i shoot for fun.
gary b

Richard
06-11-2018, 10:17 PM
seems to be very good. I shoot a .270 nk chamber and have been shooting the Norma brass without doing anything to them. Just fireform them once and use them in a match. The lot I have runs .0001 on the neck and what more could you ask for. Will have to see how the primer pockets hold up but I don't run 30+ grs of 133 anyway. I have shot the last two matches preloaded and doing everything with the tuner and have had decent results with that method.
My loaded round nk dia runs right at .266, right where I want it to be.

Richard

Greyfox
06-12-2018, 02:42 PM
i have read the article by t j jackson in ps magizine from years ago .my ? is do you need perfect necks to shoot small ags .he states that is what showed up in that texs warehouse.to get in the zeros in groups you needede perfect necksnow i do not shoot competion ,i shoot for fun.
gary b

takes a few more things than perfect necks. "perfect" means different things to different people.

Rick

g n brezinski
06-12-2018, 10:17 PM
i understand that necks are not everything in benchrest shooting .you need a great action and barrel with a great gunsmith.you need a triger and stock and every thing needs put together the rigtg way.you also must practice shooting in different conditions to get where tony is.
gary b

alinwa
06-13-2018, 12:07 AM
i understand that necks are not everything in benchrest shooting .you need a great action and barrel with a great gunsmith.you need a triger and stock and every thing needs put together the rigtg way.you also must practice shooting in different conditions to get where tony is.
gary b

You forgot luck.

10 guns, same components, same gunsmith,



2 will win



jus' sayin'

liljoe
06-13-2018, 09:44 AM
No amount of practice will get you to where Mr Boyer is.

Period!
Joe

Chism G
06-13-2018, 09:57 AM
No amount of practice will get you to where Mr Boyer is.

Period!
Joe




Maybe not. but it sure won't hurt. Ask any coach in professional Sports.




Glenn

Chism G
06-13-2018, 10:01 AM
You forgot luck.

10 guns, same components, same gunsmith,



2 will win



jus' sayin'



A Rifle that will win is as rare as a really true friend.


Glenn

Richard
06-13-2018, 12:58 PM
that the more you practice the luckier you get.;) The only way I know of to improve your skillset is through practice. That's what I tell the guys who come out to my place to learn a tuner.
It's one thing tuning for a group, but you have to learn how to tune for an agg. Two totally different things.
That takes practice, no other way around it.

Richard

Greyfox
06-13-2018, 01:52 PM
that the more you practice the luckier you get.;) The only way I know of to improve your skillset is through practice. That's what I tell the guys who come out to my place to learn a tuner.
It's one thing tuning for a group, but you have to learn how to tune for an agg. Two totally different things.
That takes practice, no other way around it.

Richard

This is probably closer to my way of thinking. I don't shoot group, only score. But I pay attention the top twenty or so in the big group matches and while there are some changes, more often than not it's the same group of guys who are always near the top. I don't for one minute believe that their equipment is all that much better than everyone else. What I do believe is that these guys shoot more than anyone else and I suspect most shoot nearly every day. You gotta have good stuff, but the more practice you do with good equipment and most important, over wind flags, the more likely you are to be near the top when the scores are calculated. If you can't read the wind you have little chance. And as Richard says, if you can't tune either with a tuner or powder you won't have much chance either. This is a very competitive game and you can't leave anything on the table if you want to win, but equipment alone (including good brass prep) won't get you there. And like Al said, it doesn't hurt to be lucky.

Rick

Hunter
06-13-2018, 03:58 PM
I pay attention the top twenty or so in the big group matches and while there are some changes, more often than not it's the same group of guys who are always near the top...What I do believe is that these guys shoot more than anyone else and I suspect most shoot nearly every day.

I asked one of those regular top-twenty guys if he practiced much; he said "No." I told that to another shooter and that second shooter said, without hesitation, "He lied." :)

Lee Martin
06-13-2018, 04:42 PM
There's no substitute for competition. I practiced for two years before entering matches. I've learned more on the line shooting against others than practice sessions and internet theory combined. Of course, I still practice too.

-Lee
www.singleactions.com

Chism G
06-13-2018, 06:09 PM
Many years ago,I talked to a, now retired ,Hall of Fame Shooter who shared an interesting story with me about his Benchrest experience.

He stated that he shot in registered competition for seven years before he won a single yardage. I've talked to some competitors who have been shooting a long time(Competition) who have never won a single yardage. They keep coming back, looking for that first win, just for the love of the Sport.

It is my belief that shooting in competition teaches you how to win. Practice teaches you about yourself, your equipment, And for lack of a better term, the personality(Nuances) of the shooting range.

There is no substitute for trigger time, both on and off the clock.



Glenn

jackie schmidt
06-13-2018, 08:29 PM
There's no substitute for competition. I practiced for two years before entering matches. I've learned more on the line shooting against others than practice sessions and internet theory combined. Of course, I still practice too.

-Lee
www.singleactions.com

I tend to agree with Lee.

I don't trust anything untill it has proven its Self in a Match.

I tried a new combination this past week end in Heavy Varmint at Seymour. I have shot it in several Score Matches, but never in a Group Match against some top notch shooters.

I'm quite pleased. So pleased that this will now be my "go to" 6PPC combination.

Richard
06-13-2018, 09:06 PM
between "practicing" and "testing"
I have practice guns just to keep sharp on flag reading, ect
Then there is testing, if it won't agg on the home range I'm sure not going to take it to a match!!
If I have a good combo going, it doesn't get shot until I get to a match. Usually if it tests good at home it will be good at a match.
I practice with the clock going, testing is a different story.

Richard

Also a practice gun needs to shoot as well as a match gun. (Or very close) Otherwise you don't learn very much

alinwa
06-14-2018, 12:19 AM
................ And like Al said, it doesn't hurt to be lucky.

Rick

To be perfectly clear "being lucky" in a match is not at all what I'm referring to. What I'm saying is, build 10 guns and TWO WILL BEAT THE OTHERS.

Greyfox
06-14-2018, 10:44 AM
To be perfectly clear "being lucky" in a match is not at all what I'm referring to. What I'm saying is, build 10 guns and TWO WILL BEAT THE OTHERS.

While I do place great value on your opinions, I respectfully disagree with this one if I understand it correctly. Possibly of the 10 guns, the same shooter may shoot better with 2. But the guy with superior skills and plenty of trigger time will use a less perfect rifle and beat the guy with the better equipment and less skill/experience. There is no way those twenty top shooters are going through that many barrels and actions. The best equipment alone won't make you a winner in this game.
It just gives you a good place to start.

Rick

liljoe
06-14-2018, 01:00 PM
The best shooter won't win with a gun that will only shoot a .300 agg.

Richard
06-14-2018, 01:17 PM
The best shooter won't win with a gun that will only shoot a .300 agg.

If your going to play at the top it takes good equipment. Anymore the aggs are so small you can't leave anything on the table. Equipment wise or shooting wise.
If I don't have a rifle that will shoot up to what I think it should be doing, it's staying home.

Richard

Greyfox
06-14-2018, 01:28 PM
The best shooter won't win with a gun that will only shoot a .300 agg.

Sorta goes without saying, but the best equipment won't make a winner out of someone who can't read wind and has poor technique. You can't spend your way to first place in this game without doing the trigger time as well.

Rick

alinwa
06-14-2018, 06:31 PM
Sorta goes without saying, but the best equipment won't make a winner out of someone who can't read wind and has poor technique. You can't spend your way to first place in this game without doing the trigger time as well.

Rick

Again, a complete newbie with a really good gun has set many a match on fire...... even some records. And it ain't about buying first place, it's about LUCK......until somebody figgers out how to make all guns shoot just as good.

Call it "the gun"

Call it "the barrel"

It might be "the bullets"

But whatever it is, some guns SHOOT.... some don't. And that's ALL'S I'm referring to in my comment. And I'll add now that if you've got one that SHOOTS you'd better treasure it and hugg it and kiss it and pinch it's liddle cheeks and call it's name 'Bob'



It was a'splained to me once, "hey, most days it don't matter BUT..... when that day comes, it's nice to be ready for a trigger pullin' contest!"

alinwa
06-14-2018, 06:37 PM
And at the same time, I'm agreeing with Richard here..... Most any decent match today has a lot of guns that are shooters. And shooters to run them.

Michael Huebner
06-15-2018, 12:15 AM
Again, a complete newbie with a really good gun has set many a match on fire...... even some records. And it ain't about buying first place, it's about LUCK......until somebody figgers out how to make all guns shoot just as good.

Call it "the gun"

Call it "the barrel"

It might be "the bullets"

But whatever it is, some guns SHOOT.... some don't. And that's ALL'S I'm referring to in my comment. And I'll add now that if you've got one that SHOOTS you'd better treasure it and hugg it and kiss it and pinch it's liddle cheeks and call it's name 'Bob'



It was a'splained to me once, "hey, most days it don't matter BUT..... when that day comes, it's nice to be ready for a trigger pullin' contest!"

Have to say I agree with Al, as I was one of these fortunate 'lucky' people.

I won a Yardage and a Grand/Agg at my first Group Nationals. Had shot only four matches prior. I later discovered I was also 'lucky' as this barrel (only my second barrel purchased) was a "hummer"

So definitely lucky to begin with!

Michael

Mike Bryant
06-15-2018, 01:06 AM
I think that the best practice that there is, is shooting in matches. There is a difference between shooting in a match and shooting at home. There is a different intensity level involved when shooting in matches that you just can't have at home. I think one of the biggest keys is watching those flags for every shot. It's pretty easy to get to running a group so quickly that you forget to watch the flags. When you do that it's like shooting blind. At least, if you see a flag change and you go ahead and pull the trigger, you know why the bullet went out of the group. If you aren't watching the flags, then you don't have a clue. That said, it is a lot easier to shoot a rifle that is shooting and is in tune than one that isn't.

Chism G
06-15-2018, 12:33 PM
In Golf,the Competition is between the player and the Golf Course. Getting to know the Golf Course improves your chances at winning. The best players know how to play every hole on the course in a Big tournament.

The same principle applies to Benchrest competition. The competition is between the shooter and the atmospheric conditions encountered during the registered match. The idea is to bring your BEST game and EQUIPMENT to the match. Its often too late to figure it out ,once the commence fire command is given.

Long time benchrest shooter,Cecil Tucker related a story, about practice, that supports my opinion on this topic. Cecil stated that he practiced at the MIdland,Tx range ,everyday, for a two week period, prior to a NBRSA Nationals Championship match.

Cecil came close to winning that Nationals which he attributes to practice, getting to know the range..


Glenn