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Littleriver
02-24-2018, 11:49 PM
The smith who "tuned" my rifle said he used Eley ammo to tune. If I use Lapua will I need to "re tune" or just test for good lots like I currently do with the Eley. Thanks in advance for help rendered.

linekin
02-25-2018, 05:11 AM
Well, you'll find there a 2 camps here. Some leave it alone & are steadfast about it. Some twist it some.
I'm in the twist it camp. For the most part you won't need to turn it much once tuned. When I say that I mean 10 clicks is a lot! You shouldn't have to do that.
I believe tune changes due to conditions & not so much an ammo change. And subtle changes can help.
Here's the deal. Write the setting the smith set it at down. Turn it all you want. You can always go back.
Just my opinion which is worth exactly what you paid for it.
Keith

rkittine
02-25-2018, 08:47 AM
My .22LR Benchrest rifle sure shoots differently when I switch from Eley to Lapua, but I expect that. I am not an experienced Tuner Shooter, but from my Engineering training, I would expect that different ammunition with different velocities, COFs etc. will effect barrel harmonics, hence a POSSIBLE need for a tuner setting change. Of course then you get changes at times, as we all know, from the same manufacture / grade when changing lots.

Bob

bob finger
02-25-2018, 03:44 PM
Just to give the OP an idea, without going into the gory details one of my rifles is tuned for Eley Black box at 133 and the same configuration is tuned for Lapua at 92. Big difference to some, not so big to others. bob

tim
02-25-2018, 03:49 PM
I never adjust the tuner, generally.
That said, there has been a body of evidence suggesting trying it with a brand switch.
Having gotten some Lapua, I will likely run a re-tune test come better testing weather to see what's up.

tim
02-25-2018, 03:53 PM
My .22LR Benchrest rifle sure shoots differently when I switch from Eley to Lapua, but I expect that. I am not an experienced Tuner Shooter, but from my Engineering training, I would expect that different ammunition with different velocities, COFs etc. will effect barrel harmonics, hence a POSSIBLE need for a tuner setting change. Of course then you get changes at times, as we all know, from the same manufacture / grade when changing lots.

Bob

You also have the issue of guys that have great sporters, without the ability to change anything, that shoot multiple brands quite well.

mwezell
02-25-2018, 07:21 PM
I never adjust the tuner, generally.
That said, there has been a body of evidence suggesting trying it with a brand switch.
Having gotten some Lapua, I will likely run a re-tune test come better testing weather to see what's up.

Hello Tim,

If a re-tune might be needed for a brand switch, why might a re-tune between lots of a given brand not help?

It has been my experience, that it is worthwhile.

mwezell
02-25-2018, 07:24 PM
You also have the issue of guys that have great sporters, without the ability to change anything, that shoot multiple brands quite well.

Multiple brands of tested ammo, in their rifle? Often, top shooters take multiple lots to a match and even to the bench, and use what works best at that time. I see that very much like cf shooters changing their load to keep up with conditions. Some even call them their "cold weather and warm weather" lots.

I don't wish to argue, but I'm a tuner manufacturer and I have done tons and tons of tuner testing. IME, a person is well served to keep an open mind to properly and methodically moving their tuner to maintain peak tune, when possible. Grabbing and twisting is neither proper nor methodical, though.

tim
02-25-2018, 07:38 PM
Hello Tim,

If a re-tune might be needed for a brand switch, why might a re-tune between lots of a given brand help?

It has been my experience, that it is worthwhile.

Then again, it may very well have more to do with your barrel than your tuner.
I like to think most things are worth a try but the operative word was " might". We'll see I guess.
Don'nt forget, Mike, a lot of those multiple lot guys, often do so because in that neverending search for the best ammo you can get, it is often an ongoing experiment for optimum lot choice.
Something like CF where, often, it's tough to decide what exact bullet you're gonna run in what barrel.

mwezell
02-25-2018, 07:51 PM
Then again, it may very well have more to do with your barrel than your tuner.
I like to think most things are worth a try but the operative word was " might". We'll see I guess.
Don'nt forget, Mike, a lot of those multiple lot guys, often do so because in that neverending search for the best ammo you can get, it is often an ongoing experiment for optimum lot choice.
Something like CF where, often, it's tough to decide what exact bullet you're gonna run in what barrel.

I've never had that problem. Yes, like rf ammo, some bullets have "it" and some don't. I don't carry the "don'ts" to a match with me, though.

What I've seen is that, at the right tuner setting, several lots of ammo have "it", and can be competitive. Some lots are still better than others, but moving the tuner is about finding the best that a given lot has to offer, right then. I don't expect this to be accepted as the gospel overnight. It is only what I have found to be remarkably consistent, for myself. First, we have to accept that we may or may not be being as methodical as needed with moving the tuner. Grabbing and twisting is luck reliant.

This is my experience. You have to either accept my experience as having any value on the subject, or not, for yourself.

tim
02-25-2018, 10:03 PM
I've never had that problem. Yes, like rf ammo, some bullets have "it" and some don't. I don't carry the "don'ts" to a match with me, though.

What I've seen is that, at the right tuner setting, several lots of ammo have "it", and can be competitive. Some lots are still better than others, but moving the tuner is about finding the best that a given lot has to offer, right then. I don't expect this to be accepted as the gospel overnight. It is only what I have found to be remarkably consistent, for myself. First, we have to accept that we may or may not be being as methodical as needed with moving the tuner. Grabbing and twisting is luck reliant.

This is my experience. You have to either accept my experience as having any value on the subject, or not, for yourself.

I appreciate your input Mike. There is, however a different perspective I offer for consideration and you may or may not have seen it, so to speak.
There are ( may be) some barrels that are simply tuned within a certain spectrum of ammo lots. They shoot, hot, cold, they are not out of or in tune, and when decent lots are acquired, they shoot it well, all the time. They are out there.
Some barrels, hell, probably most barrels are 85-90 percenters that, sometimes you can get to 91-92%. The rare, gems....often are set and done.
I've seen enough of them shot by some of the best that do it often and they never get moved.
Perhaps it simply boils down to some need it.....some don't.
Then again, simply no answer you can offer concerning a lot of untunable IR sporters that are just hammers in all conditions.

rkittine
02-26-2018, 04:46 AM
Since I work weekends and do most of my shooting alone during the week, running tests on different brands and lots of ammo gives me purpose in life!

With regard to Sporters shooting different brands, types and lots of ammo equally well, in the immortal words of a past President, "it depends what the definition of well is".

Bob

tim
02-26-2018, 01:41 PM
Since I work weekends and do most of my shooting alone during the week, running tests on different brands and lots of ammo gives me purpose in life!

With regard to Sporters shooting different brands, types and lots of ammo equally well, in the immortal words of a past President, "it depends what the definition of well is".

Bob

Have ever been within 10 feet of one? I' referring to custom match sporters not a Marlin.