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cdiver
06-22-2017, 06:05 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40372403

rkittine
06-22-2017, 07:38 PM
I just don't have the energy to put out all those wind flags to 2.2 miles, not to mention my eyesight these days?

Supper shot though.

jackie schmidt
06-22-2017, 10:17 PM
There is not really much you can ad to this. Most of us are Riflemen. We know what is involved in pulling off a feat such as this.

martin zuck
06-22-2017, 10:26 PM
There is not really much you can ad to this. Most of us are Riflemen. We know what is involved in pulling off a feat such as this.

Not to take away from this incredible feat I would venture to also give credit to some luck.

Andy Cross
06-23-2017, 07:01 AM
Not to take away from this incredible feat I would venture to also give credit to some luck.

Some luck I would say a hell of a lot of it. When you know how many intervening variables come into play. I would like to see these guys shoot an agg at that range and see what it measured.

Lee Martin
06-23-2017, 10:06 AM
I just don't have the energy to put out all those wind flags to 2.2 miles

I was thinking the same thing.

-Lee
www.singleactions.com

TheoW
06-23-2017, 11:12 AM
The sniper did a great job. He had superb training as part of a team consisting of a spotter, gunsmith, kill verifier, etc. He was not a benchrest shooter! He is a human computer who analyses several variables and then pulls the trigger. Let's not belittle him by introducing LUCK as a factor.

rkittine
06-24-2017, 12:11 PM
You have to give credit to the spotter too, who usually does the calculating. So assume that the rifle is capable of 1/4 MOA. What would the expected possible variation be with no wind at 2.2 miles in inches?

We get wind flags and sighters. Now matter how you look at it, the results were perfect and if the shooter wasn't that good then there would not have even been a chance.

Bob

bill larson
06-24-2017, 01:02 PM
Praise got and pass the ammunition..........
bill

Bill Wynne
06-24-2017, 10:03 PM
The bullet has to go somewhere and that rag head had bad luck that day.

Andy Cross
06-26-2017, 06:37 AM
The sniper did a great job. He had superb training as part of a team consisting of a spotter, gunsmith, kill verifier, etc. He was not a benchrest shooter! He is a human computer who analyses several variables and then pulls the trigger. Let's not belittle him by introducing LUCK as a factor.

When ever I have managed to shoot a group where the first decimal place is a zero I can thank good equipment, Good load development, accuracy in reading the wind flags and divine intervention or as we aussies call it good old bloody luck. If it wasn't then there is no reason I shouldn't be able shoot the remainder of the groups the same size or something close. The reason I have never agged in the zeros is because my bloody luck ran out after the first group. At that distance he could have shot two or three more but I am sure the next couple would have missed. So I am not belitteling the sniper when I acknowledge both his ability and his luck or his enemy's lack of it.

jackie schmidt
06-27-2017, 05:09 PM
The bullet has to go somewhere and that rag head had bad luck that day.

+1

Nader
06-27-2017, 09:10 PM
Not to take away from this incredible feat I would venture to also give credit to some luck.

Yeah, lots of luck. No way to account for the wind over that distance. At two miles out the bullet is falling to the earth on an almost verticle line, miscalculate distance by 20 yards or so and the bullet drops in front of or behind the intended target. A lot can happen in the ten second flight time, the target can simply walk away and get a cold beer.
Chances are the shooter missed his first shot, the spotter saw the strike 15 feet away. The ISIL combatant was unaware that he was under fire. The shooter adjusted his aim point and Bingo, one bad guy down.
Thats the way it works shootin' ground hogs anyway.

brickeyee
06-28-2017, 09:32 PM
I just don't have the energy to put out all those wind flags to 2.2 miles, not to mention my eyesight these days?

Supper shot though.

That is what indigenous vegetation is for.

Asa Yam
06-29-2017, 08:46 AM
At two miles out the bullet is falling to the earth on an almost verticle line, miscalculate distance by 20 yards or so and the bullet drops in front of or behind the intended target. A lot can happen in the ten second flight time, the target can simply walk away and get a cold beer.
Chances are the shooter missed his first shot, the spotter saw the strike 15 feet away. The ISIL combatant was unaware that he was under fire. The shooter adjusted his aim point and Bingo, one bad guy down.
Why do you think the often quoted statistic for snipers is 1 kill per 1.7 shots? :confused: Again, this takes nothing away from the shooter, but it does stress just how difficult connecting with such a shot is.

Wilbur
06-29-2017, 12:42 PM
When I was in Vietnam, "Snipers" would come by the mess hall and get some burned up pots to shoot at. We always had several! When you caught bunker guard you could hear the show. Darkness and rain seemed to make the show somewhat better....you would hear a shot and then a few seconds later the clank of it hitting one of those pots. It's been a long time but I don't think I ever heard a shot that I didn't hear the clank. Pitch black dark and raining! I accused them of putting a bunch of pots together so they couldn't miss and they would just laugh....

Joe Salt
06-30-2017, 06:33 PM
I think if you are trained right and shoot every day you can get really good at what you do! Hell I wish I could shoot every day, and not have to worry about paying for the ammo.
But I would like to know like everyone else, How many shots it took. I know even at a Thousand a one shot kill is great. But they got the job done. Thank you for your service. Good Job.

joe Salt

Bill Collaros
07-01-2017, 06:35 AM
This post makes me very happy

Wilbur
07-01-2017, 11:13 AM
A quarter minute rifle is accurate to 12 feet at 2.2 miles. Either it was a lucky shot or the sniper was shooting into a crowd. As always, there's not enough detail to speculate. Given what I know...I'll call it a good shot and hope it never happens to any of us.

John S
07-01-2017, 12:47 PM
This is most likely the system used: http://www.accuracyinternational.com/ax-rifle-systems/

A lot of credit should be given to the Spotter....................

Conditions must be perfect to see and read the mirage. Wind flags? We don't need no stinking wind flags.

I thought that cranking in 2 or 3 minutes of wind at 500 meters was a lot!!!!!

jackie schmidt
07-01-2017, 06:40 PM
This is most likely the system used: http://www.accuracyinternational.com/ax-rifle-systems/

A lot of credit should be given to the Spotter....................

Conditions must be perfect to see and read the mirage. Wind flags? We don't need no stinking wind flags.

I thought that cranking in 2 or 3 minutes of wind at 500 meters was a lot!!!!!

The link says a standard issue McMillan TAC-50, chambered in 50 BMG.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iU23BB5WUHI

Wilbur
07-02-2017, 01:18 PM
Clearly I misfigured! Could be I was thinking the whole time about the last shot I fired at that 1000 yard match I attended. Missed that big ol' target by 10+ feet....saw it hit the dirt. Charles Ellertson suggested I shoot another shot but I feared that was against the rules.

Bill Wynne
07-02-2017, 09:23 PM
I question what kind of accuracy a 50 cal can produce. You see very few at benchrest matches. I would think that 1 minute with the thing would be good.

rogn
07-02-2017, 09:45 PM
Isnt 1 MOA at 2.2 miles or about 3700 yd equivalent to about 37" and 1/4 minute 9.25"+/-. That makes an exceptional shot a real posibility.

Andy Cross
07-03-2017, 04:00 AM
What I can't see is any one calculating is the effects of the wind that the bullet has to fly through. At the top of its arc it would be at least 35 to 40 feet above the line of sight. If you climb to the top of a structure that high you'll find there is wind even when there is not much at ground level. No ground effects can accurately indicate the wind that far off the ground. So I am afraid unless someone can tell me how to accurately predict this effect you've lost me.

Kiwi Greg
07-03-2017, 04:25 AM
What I can't see is any one calculating is the effects of the wind that the bullet has to fly through. At the top of its arc it would be at least 35 to 40 feet above the line of sight. If you climb to the top of a structure that high you'll find there is wind even when there is not much at ground level. No ground effects can accurately indicate the wind that far off the ground. So I am afraid unless someone can tell me how to accurately predict this effect you've lost me.

Mate respectfully you need to get access to a ballistic calculator, the drop conservatively is 350 yards, 1050 feet above line of sight, at that range, unless it was on a big angle, with a 750 Amax or equivalent with a G1 BC of around 1.0 going 2600 fps, the 50BMG has tons of energy but a rainbow trajectory.

1 moa is exceptional accuracy for a factory 50 BMG at short range let alone extreme range even for a bolt action.

Andy Cross
07-03-2017, 07:36 PM
Mate respectfully you need to get access to a ballistic calculator, the drop conservatively is 350 yards, 1050 feet above line of sight, at that range, unless it was on a big angle, with a 750 Amax or equivalent with a G1 BC of around 1.0 going 2600 fps, the 50BMG has tons of energy but a rainbow trajectory.

1 moa is exceptional accuracy for a factory 50 BMG at short range let alone extreme range even for a bolt action.

I rest my case.With no wind indicators at 350yds above the line of sight the enemy just had a bad day.

Don
07-03-2017, 09:25 PM
Mate respectfully you need to get access to a ballistic calculator, the drop conservatively is 350 yards, 1050 feet above line of sight.

Wonder what type of scope/mount combination was used to handle that amount of bullet drop at distance?

rwnoel
07-04-2017, 08:18 AM
I rest my case.With no wind indicators at 350yds above the line of sight the enemy just had a bad day.

well, wind at ground level is related to winds aloft. So it's not like there is zero indication of wind at a 1000' agl.

Bill Wynne
07-04-2017, 09:54 AM
All of this writing is about an improbable rifle shot which resulted in taking a man's life. Well, "War is hell."

Andy Cross
07-04-2017, 07:48 PM
well, wind at ground level is related to winds aloft. So it's not like there is zero indication of wind at a 1000' agl.

Lets see what kind of a group I could shoot even at 200 yards when I position my flags that far above the ground. After all the winds aloft are related to those I am experiencing at ground level.

rwnoel
07-04-2017, 08:07 PM
Lets see what kind of a group I could shoot even at 200 yards when I position my flags that far above the ground. After all the winds aloft are related to those I am experiencing at ground level.

shrug - you said "no wind indicators at 350yds above the line of sight"

A wind flag at 1000' agl isn't the only means to get a sense of the wind at that height. However, I don't know if snipers pay any attention to the common changes in wind direction and wind speed that occur as you go up in altitude.

Wilbur
07-04-2017, 10:13 PM
The wind at 40 meters is fairly constant. The wind at ground level changes erratically....which is why we have and use wind flags. I've watched both the flume from a cooling tower (300 feet) and the output from a wind meter 40 meters up and they did not change direction very quickly. At 40 meters up, the velocity was fairly constant and the directional changes were gradual.

Andy Cross
07-05-2017, 06:13 AM
The wind at 40 meters is fairly constant. The wind at ground level changes erratically....which is why we have and use wind flags. I've watched both the flume from a cooling tower (300 feet) and the output from a wind meter 40 meters up and they did not change direction very quickly. At 40 meters up, the velocity was fairly constant and the directional changes were gradual.

I beg to differ. As an industrial photographer I have often had to take photographs high above the ground on derricks, towers and the like. The ground wind in many cases was non-existent with a wind of 25mph 90 ft off the ground. 10 minutes later it can be blowing in the opposite direction. Similarly there have been winds of 10 to 15 mph at ground level and almost calm 80 to 90 ft above ground. It's completely unpredictable. A quarter of a mile away the situation could be different again at the very same time. Just ask a rotary wing pilot if you don't believe me.

cdiver
07-05-2017, 08:19 AM
The wind at 40 meters is fairly constant. The wind at ground level changes erratically....which is why we have and use wind flags. I've watched both the flume from a cooling tower (300 feet) and the output from a wind meter 40 meters up and they did not change direction very quickly. At 40 meters up, the velocity was fairly constant and the directional changes were gradual.

Have to agree with you Wilbur. I use this https://www.windfinder.com/forecast/lakeland_linder_airport to get an idea of what the day is going to be like. If you watch the indicator at the top left that tells you what the wind is doing right now you will see very slow changes. A short distance away on the ground at the range it is a totally different story, wind constantly changing direction and speed.

Wilbur
07-06-2017, 02:30 PM
Doesn't really matter for benchrest group shooters. If you don't have some wind flags to watch your groups will be larger and you can't do anything about it.

There's always a hitch to any statement...Dennis Brame won a 300 yard match and he had a single flag about 15 yards from the bench. What was exceptional about that was he drew a bench away from the crowd and was all by himself with maybe 10 benches between him and flags. I asked him what he was watching and he said "nothing much".

scott mims
07-06-2017, 03:47 PM
I wonder if Dennis is still with us. Always a nice guy miss seeing him. He sure made that chewing tobacco look good....... the juices just flowed like butter 😀

doghunter
07-07-2017, 06:50 AM
>>> snip<<<

There's always a hitch to any statement...Dennis Brame won a 300 yard match and he had a single flag about 15 yards from the bench. What was exceptional about that was he drew a bench away from the crowd and was all by himself with maybe 10 benches between him and flags. I asked him what he was watching and he said "nothing much".

I have this discussion regularly with my clubmates when they ask why I put a flag at 12m, another at 25m and the final one near the target (.22 rimfire 50m and 100m targets).

I figure it like this: If the projectile is going to be blown off line just after it leaves the barrel it ain't going to drift back on line real soon.
If the projectile is going to be hit by a blast at 25m it's not good, but the deflection is less than above.
Finally, if the projectile makes it almost to the target and a gust hits it, how far is it going to move off line?

Line up the flags every time in a repeatable orientation and get as many shots away as possible when you have that 'condition'

So many people put just one flag, ribbon, bit of surveyor's tape etc. above their target and ignore what happens closer to the muzzle. IMHO this is a mistake.

* doghunter *

Wilbur
07-07-2017, 10:04 AM
That's a true statement...the closer the flag is to the bench the more important it is. on the other hand, it's the "condition" that is truly important to smaller groups.