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dickw
06-18-2017, 09:17 AM
Has anyone used AA 2015 in the .222? I've been told by a couple of old timers that should know that the highest velocity in a duece would come from 2015.

Anybody actually tried it?

Thanks,

Dick Wright

kolar55
06-18-2017, 11:08 AM
Dick I had tried it along about the same time I tried VV N133. As I remember it looked like it had good potential but 133 just flat out shot very well and I was getting the highest velocities out of it that I have ever gotten. With that, I never really got back to working with 2015. 23.3 of 133 with a Bart's 52 or the Berger 52 is almost like magic. Especially in the winter here in Wisconsin. A friend found his best accuracy at 23.6 behind the Bart's 52. These loads were producing speeds in the 3350+ fps. Not bad for a standard deuce with a 52 grain bullet. These were using Lapua brass also. I don't have time to shoot in the summer months so these loads may be a bit warm when it gets hot. Good shooting Lonnie

dickw
06-19-2017, 07:28 AM
Lonnie,

Thanks. Do you remember what load you used when you started with the 2015? I have a couple of 8 lb. jugs of the Isreali 2015 made around 1990 - 1991 and no 133. I'd really like to try it.

I have plenty of Bart's 52 gr. bullets. They have always been my bullet of choice for .22's.

Dick

dickw
06-19-2017, 07:37 AM
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah264/DickWright/DSC_0017_zpsfqfk2xur.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/DickWright/media/DSC_0017_zpsfqfk2xur.jpg.html)

Lonnie,

FWIW this is my new bench gun. Been working on it for two years and finally got it done. Kinda retro.

I'm having fun shooting this. I don't expect to be really competitive but, at my age, don't care. I just want to make it shoot as well as I can.

Dick

JerrySharrett
06-19-2017, 10:05 AM
Dick, keep in mind there have been several "2015's" made in several powder plants in several nations. The original 2015 made famous by Jef Fowler is as different from our current 2015 as a Bass is from a Trout.

Then we have the lot-to-lot differences we have in current products caused by the differences in cellulosetics used today....

.

JDMock
06-19-2017, 10:33 AM
Dick, keep in mind there have been several "2015's" made in several powder plants in several nations. The original 2015 made famous by Jef Fowler is as different from our current 2015 as a Bass is from a Trout.

Then we have the lot-to-lot differences we have in current products caused by the differences in cellulosetics used today....

.
Jerry, Dick has the good '90-'91 Israeli stuff and I believe that it should work great in the deuce. Personally, I have found H335 to give the highest velocity with H322 coming in second.......but I have limited experience with the .222. Good shooting....James

Wilbur
06-19-2017, 10:34 AM
Dick - that's good powder. I would be surprised if wouldn't shoot as well as anything you could get your hands on. Work up a load and keep going until you realize it's too much. What I'm trying to say is that a good load, an acceptable load, might be improved by turning the knob a bit more.

That sure is a pretty rifle!

kolar55
06-20-2017, 02:19 AM
Lonnie,

Thanks. Do you remember what load you used when you started with the 2015? I have a couple of 8 lb. jugs of the Isreali 2015 made around 1990 - 1991 and no 133. I'd really like to try it.

I have plenty of Bart's 52 gr. bullets. They have always been my bullet of choice for .22's.

Dick

Dick I will have to agree with the other posts about the 2015 of today. That is what I used and believe it is way different from the older powder. If you still are interested I'll see if I can dig up those targets (if I still have them). If I remember right that was tried in the previous .222 I had. Sold that rifle a few years ago and re-barreled my original sporter. So those targets may be gone. By the way, that is a very nice piece you have there and that Lyman looks pretty nice too. What is the power of it?

dickw
06-20-2017, 07:47 AM
Thanks, guys. I've been googling for a few days and I have more sensible answers here than I've managed to find elsewhere. I'm mostly interested in a safe starting load. I can take it from there. Based on everything I've found, I will start with 22.0 gr. of the good 2015, examine the first case shot very carefully, and twist the knob till I've found group happiness.

Everything is different with the falling block action... finding a jam is really different than with a bolt gun, etc, etc... I asked for this when I decided to make an old style bench gun, 50's and 60's style. Thank God, it's easy for me... my bench is 20 ft. from where I'm sitting. If I get it shooting well enough to give the guys in Factory Class a hard time I will be very happy. This is my fortieth year of BR competition and my expectations are different now. Best summarized, I guess I want to look good losing. To that end, son Tom, the guitar maker, is making me a rather elegant ammo box from walnut. I like the way the gun came out so, now, all I gotta do is make it shoot.

Right now it's humid enough outside that the air is almost a solid. Typical of Michigan in June. I don't know how 2015 reacts to that but I'm about to find out. I hand rubbed another coat of finish on the gun last week but it's dry enough now to shoot. Gotta do it... match Saturday.

dickw
06-20-2017, 07:50 AM
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah264/DickWright/DSC_0834_zpsf50xgcei.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/DickWright/media/DSC_0834_zpsf50xgcei.jpg.html)

FWIW... the other side of my new "bench" gun. I think I can look good losing with this. The color is washed out a bit here by the flash.

dickw
06-20-2017, 08:02 AM
Lonnie,

That's a Unertl. When I got it I sent it to a guy in Ohio who repairs Unertls... he once worked at the factory. He told me it was made in 1940. It's an eight power. I'm thinking about sending it out this winter and getting it bumped to 12X and getting a 1/2 minute dot.

Don't bother sorting thru things. I gotta get going now and I'll have data before you can find something. I appreciate the offer.

Interesting... I have a good supply of the old Remington benchrest bullets from Mike Walker's time. So far, they shoot the best

Dick

kolar55
06-20-2017, 09:55 AM
Lonnie,

That's a Unertl. When I got it I sent it to a guy in Ohio who repairs Unertls... he once worked at the factory. He told me it was made in 1940. It's an eight power. I'm thinking about sending it out this winter and getting it bumped to 12X and getting a 1/2 minute dot.

Yep I didn't look close enough. I've had both and I still like the Lyman. Although the 2" 24 Unertl is a bit easier to look through as I get older. But the 20x Lyman I had sure looked good on that heavy Barreled 52 Winchester. Let me know if you need any thing else. Thanks Lonnie

Landers
06-20-2017, 10:49 AM
Has anyone used AA 2015 in the .222? I've been told by a couple of old timers that should know that the highest velocity in a duece would come from 2015.

Anybody actually tried it?

Thanks,

Dick Wright

Dick,

I just dug through my old data and my Uncle's old reloading data. 52 grain bullets - starting load of 19.5 grains and depending on chamber, etc max load of 21.5 grains. We were shooting in New Mexico at approx 4400 ft elevation with temps in the 80 to 90 degree range.

Be safe,

Pete

dickw
06-20-2017, 01:40 PM
I got to shoot it this AM. Started at 22.0 gr. of the Isreali 2015. No pressure and round groups. Worked up to 23.4 gr. and got some vertical. 23.1 gr. was just fine. At 23.4 gr. the primer is a little flatter and there is no evidence of a crater. Had to quit and go to town. I'll shoot more this PM or in the morning.

This stuff shoots better than the IMR 4895 in this gun.:)

Pete, your uncle had to be using a very different 2015. At 19 gr. I could probably beat the bullet to the target and I can't run fast anymore.:confused:

Thanks for everything guys,

Dick

Andy Cross
06-20-2017, 07:47 PM
Attached is the 222 I built a little while ago on a rem 700. The best 2015 load was 22.5gn with 52gn copperhead bullets. Fed 205 primer with the bullet just on the lands. 3290fps. Was able to small group it into the high .1's

dickw
06-21-2017, 06:55 AM
Attached is the 222 I built a little while ago on a rem 700. The best 2015 load was 22.5gn with 52gn copperhead bullets. Fed 205 primer with the bullet just on the lands. 3290fps. Was able to small group it into the high .1's

Andy, if I were interested in being really competitive my gun would look like your's. When I started this project I wanted two things... I wanted art and I wanted to see just how well a gun like this could be made to shoot. Whilst art is very subjective, I like the way this came out. After yesterday I think I'm on my way to making it shoot beyond my expectations... the old 2015 seems to work well. I have a few hours this morning and I will try backing the bullets off a couple of thou... they are seated to a hard jam. I will also try Bart's 52 gr. bullets that I've had for years and which I've been saving for something special. When I'm done I will load my best fifty cases, clean the barrel and start loading the Porsche for Saturday's match.

dickw
06-21-2017, 07:18 AM
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah264/DickWright/DSC_0339_zpsshzmazka.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/DickWright/media/DSC_0339_zpsshzmazka.jpg.html)

FWIW this was the inspiration for my .222. This gun has belonged to a friend for a few years but has been here a good part of the time. My pal has some wonderful rifles but won't shoot them. A couple of years ago he asked me to shoot this just to see what it would do. This gun, probably made in the 50's or 60's, is easily a 1/4" shooter. I doubt if it had many rounds thru the barrel when my pal, Kim, got it. I'm the only one who has shot it since then.

The provenance is impeccable... L.E. Wilson (Yes... that L.E. Wilson.) made the gun for himself. He did the metal and sent it to Tom Shelhamer for the stock. It is chambered in 220 Wilson Arrow which is an improved 220 Swift, a barrel burner if there ever was one and the reason I think it hasn't been shot much. This gun represents an important part of our history and should belong to someone who appreciates that. Kim has offered to sell it to me for $4000.00, 2"Unertl included, and, should my slush fund get replenished, it will live here permanently.

This is a big honker, it weighs in at 13 lb. on my postage scale. My gun is five pounds lighter and O.K. to carry in the field should I decide we have too many woodchucks hereabouts. Anyway, I wanted a more modern version of this without sacrificing any of the good stuff. I hope I partly succeeded...

Andy Cross
06-22-2017, 03:32 AM
Andy, if I were interested in being really competitive my gun would look like your's. When I started this project I wanted two things... I wanted art and I wanted to see just how well a gun like this could be made to shoot. Whilst art is very subjective, I like the way this came out. After yesterday I think I'm on my way to making it shoot beyond my expectations... the old 2015 seems to work well. I have a few hours this morning and I will try backing the bullets off a couple of thou... they are seated to a hard jam. I will also try Bart's 52 gr. bullets that I've had for years and which I've been saving for something special. When I'm done I will load my best fifty cases, clean the barrel and start loading the Porsche for Saturday's match.

Perhaps you miss interpreted the photo. This isn't a competition rifle. It's just a accurate bunny buster. Yep I lug all 13 1/2 pounds of it out into the field. Call me mad maybe but I am a BR shooter.

dickw
06-26-2017, 06:46 AM
Time to 'fess up... I shot it in the match Saturday and did very poorly. Finally decided that two things were wrong... First, I need to work on the fore end bedding. It shot well in the factory stocks. Properly bedded, it should shoot now. Secondly, the shooter was woefully lacking. In my last group, shooting in a stiff 9 o'clock wind, I put the first four well under 1/2". I shot the last shot in a let-up and the bullet moved almost an inch upwind. My best group by far turned into my worst. I was shooting Remington's old load of 23-1/2 gr. of 4895. When I don't screw up, it shows promise.

First, I am going to make sure the back of the fore end is not touching the front of the action... without being able to see same. I need me a two or three thou feeler gauge. Gonna be fussy work but the whole gun was fussy work. Secondy, we have three weeks before our next match. In the meantime, I'm gonna practice shooting. The 17 HMR sporter I made a couple of years ago has a tuner and is quite accurate. There's a rimfire match for same every Tuesday at the Bay County Conservation Club and I'm gonna be there. I can shoot on my own range anytime and will do so. Anybody dumb enough to do what I did to my last group Saturday needs to practice or needs to take up another sport.

Hey, I'm just a really old guy who likes elegant rifles and likes to shoot. If I can make an eight lb. Ruger No. 1 shoot 3/8" I will be "Get me a bottle of Gentleman Jack" happy.

dickw
06-26-2017, 06:53 AM
http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah264/DickWright/DSC_0504_zpsremlkbfp_1.jpg (http://s1382.photobucket.com/user/DickWright/media/DSC_0504_zpsremlkbfp_1.jpg.html)

My 17 HMR CZ 452 American sporter that I made a couple of years ago. This is going to be my practice gun whilst I work on bedding the Ruger.

dickw
06-26-2017, 07:01 AM
Hey, Andy... you use a bench gun to shoot bunnies. I shoot a varmint rifle for benchrest. I don't have any problem with that.

It appears that Photobucket which has always been a P.I.A. is screwing around with me. They want money or they aren't cooperating on pics now. Click on their circle to see the pic.