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skeetlee
12-30-2016, 08:40 PM
What tooth count do you fellas use while cutting barrel steel on your band saws? The blades I have on hand cut really good but only for a short time. I think I need to change my tooth count. I use cutting fluids on my saw and it does help. Messy but it helps. Lee

DSM
12-30-2016, 10:23 PM
Not sure what handsaw you use, but I have a HF and use their super cut bi metal blades. Make sure you get the USA made ones...they last pretty decent. Not sure tooth count, but are like 12-14 maybe.

Mike Bryant
12-31-2016, 12:08 AM
The carbon steel blades don't last very well, but the bi metal blades will last a long time. 14 teeth will be fine.

Cigarcop
12-31-2016, 08:21 AM
18806

Wayne Shaw
12-31-2016, 09:17 AM
I use a hand held porta-band saw. Most used power tool I have. I hate a hack saw. My bands are 18 or 24 tooth.

skeetlee
12-31-2016, 03:02 PM
Looks like Bi metal is the way to go. Tooth count is a little wide open, or so it seems? Im gonna try a 10 and a 14. Thanks Gentlemen and happy new year. Stay safe! Im staying home, Lee

DSM
12-31-2016, 07:11 PM
Soft stuff...less teeth. Hard stuff...more teeth.

GeneT
01-01-2017, 10:46 AM
Looks like Bi metal is the way to go. Tooth count is a little wide open, or so it seems? Im gonna try a 10 and a 14. Thanks Gentlemen and happy new year. Stay safe! Im staying home, Lee

Why not a 10-14 variable pitch? I've run that and the 6-10 variable pitch, and both cut barrel steels fine. 6-10 is nicer if you're also cutting aluminum, but more likely to catch an edge if you're starting it on angle iron or the like.

GsT

Dave Short
01-01-2017, 05:35 PM
If you use your saw for cutting anything other than 416R barrels, here's something to consider. The minimum number of teeth engaged in the cut should be 3 to 4. If you go with one blade for about everything, stay to the fine side. Run the surface speed pretty slow....you don't want to waste time standing over the saw waiting on a cut anyway, so an extra minute or so for a cut is no biggie. Increase down pressure for larger pieces (more teeth in the work) and decrease it for narrow cross-sections. Slower speeds and appropriate down force will keep the heat down, so you can cut dry and avoid the sloppy mess and standing there dribbling cutting oil. It will also allow you run a good quality carbon blade, avoiding the cost of bimetal ones. FWIW, I use Morse 18 tpi carbon steel blades for almost everything I saw here. They seem to last forever, provided I pay attention to the chip it's making. Blade cost is about 1/2 of a bimetal, and life is as good or better than when trying to race through and/or ignoring cutting pressure with any type of blade.

-Dave-

Woodhunter
01-01-2017, 07:18 PM
I have a big Wells saw and use Starrett blades. 1" wide blades, 11 TPI, wavy teeth, bimetallic. The teeth are also raker type.

They last forever. Below cutting 4140. 1-1/2" x 2-1/2" bar stock.

Flooded coolant. The coolant is CoolLube mixed 3 parts water 1 part coolant.

The saw has hydraulic down feed and cuts very fast. It blasts right through 416 barrels. 416 is actually easier to cut and machine than 4140.

http://i736.photobucket.com/albums/xx5/Altamaha/Sight%20Ramp%20Jig/2001-01-01%20001.jpg


Summary for long blade life:

Buy the right blades in a premium grade. Use correct number of teeth.

Use lots of flooded coolant.

Do not let the blade linger in the cut: If you cannot see the blade feeding down something is wrong.

Wavy and raker teeth are your friend.

If you are not buying bimetallic blades you are wasting your money.

Mike Bryant
01-01-2017, 09:26 PM
My son has been cutting ATS-34 and 154-CM flat bar stock on my bandsaw in the vertical position. These kinds of steel are pretty hard on bandsaw blades. Don't have much trouble cutting off 416 barrels with a bandsaw as 416 cuts pretty easily. Bimetal blades are a must for the first two steels. A carbon steel blade won't last long at all cutting them.

Dave Short
01-01-2017, 11:17 PM
I don't think Lee is using an industrial bandsaw with a coolant pump, nor do I think he's sawing any production runs or difficult to machine materials. Lee, please forgive my assumptions if I was incorrect, lol.

-Dave-

Woodhunter
01-02-2017, 11:50 AM
I don't think Lee is using an industrial bandsaw with a coolant pump, nor do I think he's sawing any production runs or difficult to machine materials. Lee, please forgive my assumptions if I was incorrect, lol.

-Dave-

Ye but the techniques for a big saw and blade also apply to the small home saws.

I have a back yard shop as most do. The Big wells saw was a treasure I found at a machine shop auction, the shop had been shut down for a few years. Darn thing cost about $16,000 new. It did not work. I got it for $250. After a clean up and three new fuses (it is three phase) it ran fine. Luckily I had three phase power in the shop.
Flooded coolant is the key, and lots of it. Squirting on cutting oil does not do much, as you are not taking the heat away from the cut and the saw teeth. Water mix coolant really pulls out the heat. Heat kills tooling!

CMaier
01-02-2017, 01:27 PM
yes but most small power saws do not have a coolant system,
so we are talking apples and oranges.
my 4x6 convertible ain't in the same class.
so speed, tension and tooth count is what matters.
i think dave got it right



Ye but the techniques for a big saw and blade also apply to the small home saws.

I have a back yard shop as most do. The Big wells saw was a treasure I found at a machine shop auction, the shop had been shut down for a few years. Darn thing cost about $16,000 new. It did not work. I got it for $250. After a clean up and three new fuses (it is three phase) it ran fine. Luckily I had three phase power in the shop.
Flooded coolant is the key, and lots of it. Squirting on cutting oil does not do much, as you are not taking the heat away from the cut and the saw teeth. Water mix coolant really pulls out the heat. Heat kills tooling!

akajun
01-02-2017, 03:24 PM
If your using one of the little 4x6 HF saws, I never could get a blade to last period, bi metal or whatnot. THE BI metals did last longer but still not great. I think the problem was that the little saws flex to much and start breaking teeth. Now I will say that I also was cutting rusty angle iron and other thinks not rifle barrel related as I do a good bit of welding. If all you are going to cut is rifle barrels you may get better luck than I did.
When I found a used Kalamazoo bandsaw from a heavy equipment repair shop with 6 brand new blades I Jumped on it. The blade that came on it is a Nicholson BI metal 10-14ct. IT was rusty as hell and the guy said that blade was probably 20 yrs old. I figured what the hell and was going to use it till it broke or dulled. THat was two years ago and I'm still cutting everything with that same blade.
The down side to a larger saw is Floorspace, I ended up putting it on casters so that helps, plus blades are about $60 each, but I probably have a lifetime supply unless I need a specialty blade.
Find a larger saw, even the HF 7x12 saws are better. MY FIL has one and it is actually ok.

alinwa
01-02-2017, 11:04 PM
I have the HF 4X6 saw. It seems to work just fine, the blades seem to last "as long as they should" comparing them to similarly sized hacksaw, porta-band and sawzall blades.

They wear out.

They cut slower.

Then they break.

I run it on the slowest speed.

I've welded and brazed and silver soldered and soft soldered them, I even bought a blade fixer, a welder, a splicer an induction mo'chine with only one function, fixing bandsaw blades......and basically it's a waste of space. 90% of the time FOR ME, when a blade breaks it's already toast

Here's the thing I found......tension, YES, roller spacing/support, YES, spring/weight adjustment, YES, lubrication/cooling, MAYBE (spraying WD-40 on the blade seems to keep AL from plugging the teeth)......but the single BIGGEST factor for me was to diddle with the roller/supports until the blade is cutting straight 90* cuts.

Ohhh, and if you put a blade in backwards and run it, it's perty much shot.

We recently fabricated a 14ft flatbed with a drop bumper, light supports, receiver hitch, headache rack, toolbox hangers, stake pockets and a tiedown rail all-round using one blade. Quite a few incidental cuts for making angle supports for the tongue and groove deck......Changed the blade and cut the stock for 6 toolbox protectors/rack system for the front of the bed. Racks made from 2X3 and 2X4 tubing with lots of angle iron support for the expanded metal decks. I'd guess 100 cuts per rack for a total of 600'ish cuts of angle and tubing.....seems a fair piece for a blade....

Thum are my thoughts

If'n I think any more thoughts

I'll add'em

al

alinwa
01-02-2017, 11:06 PM
Ohhh,

I thunk another thought.

I do have some magnetic water/oil misters I use for grinding toolbits and cooling my mini lathe/mill setup.

Maybe I'll stick a mister blowing on the cut next time.

TRA
01-03-2017, 05:31 AM
i have a big wells saw and use starrett blades. 1" wide blades, 11 tpi, wavy teeth, bimetallic. The teeth are also raker type.

They last forever. Below cutting 4140. 1-1/2" x 2-1/2" bar stock.

Flooded coolant. The coolant is coollube mixed 3 parts water 1 part coolant.

The saw has hydraulic down feed and cuts very fast. It blasts right through 416 barrels. 416 is actually easier to cut and machine than 4140.

http://i736.photobucket.com/albums/xx5/altamaha/sight%20ramp%20jig/2001-01-01%20001.jpg


summary for long blade life:

Buy the right blades in a premium grade. Use correct number of teeth.

Use lots of flooded coolant.

Do not let the blade linger in the cut: If you cannot see the blade feeding down something is wrong.

Wavy and raker teeth are your friend.

If you are not buying bimetallic blades you are wasting your money.


^^^^
ditto

Ye must keep the blade clean. That means no chips building up in the tooth gullets, no chips on top and the front of the part. WHY?
Cuz the blade picks them back up and embeds then and by then also a piece of
HSS blade hook. Unless you catch it quick or avoid it altogether you are going to destroy blades, and it won't even be the blades fault.

Running the blade through a circular wire brush for the large stuff and a lot of flood coolant to keep it washed off, will have a large effect on blade life.

Hal
01-03-2017, 10:30 AM
I have a 100H Ellis saw, it uses a 100" blade. They also make larger saws. The Ellis saw company recommends all their saws run dry and not to use coolant, Their saws were not designed for coolant and it will rust and gum up their saws.

They use small bearing mounted wire wheels that run aginst the side of the blade and wipe the chips off the blade.

The saw arm pivots to cut angles, not the vise jaws, and to set the cutting arm's down pressure at 8 lbs.
Mount the new blade, run it for a few minutes than tighten it 3/4 of a turn.

Hal

alinwa
01-03-2017, 12:47 PM
I have a 100H Ellis saw, it uses a 100" blade. They also make larger saws. The Ellis saw company recommends all their saws run dry and not to use coolant, Their saws were not designed for coolant and it will rust and gum up their saws.

They use small bearing mounted wire wheels that run aginst the side of the blade and wipe the chips off the blade.

The saw arm pivots to cut angles, not the vise jaws, and to set the cutting arm's down pressure at 8 lbs.
Mount the new blade, run it for a few minutes than tighten it 3/4 of a turn.

Hal

Do you sharpen the blade or have it done?

Hal
01-03-2017, 06:36 PM
Al

I have not had my saw very long and haven't used it all that much yet.

It came with two blades, the spare blade is a used blade. I have never sharpened a band saw blade, maybe I'll have to give it a try.

Do you sharpen your blades? I thought most people run the blades until they were use up than put on a new band saw blade.

Hal

alinwa
01-03-2017, 06:58 PM
Al

I have not had my saw very long and haven't used it all that much yet.

It came with two blades, the spare blade is a used blade. I have never sharpened a band saw blade, maybe I'll have to give it a try.

Do you sharpen your blades? I thought most people run the blades until they were use up than put on a new band saw blade.

Hal

I'm sorry........I thought you meant the huge circular saw for precisely lopping metal. A friend of mine has a 1200mm (about 50" diameter) one which has a HSS blade and it cuts for years between sharpenings, if he's careful.

No, I've never used a bandsaw big enough to sharpen. I hear about it from my sawmilling buddies but haven't seen it.

I'm not sure why I thought an Ellis was a circlesaw :)

lol

al

TRA
01-04-2017, 12:22 AM
I'm sorry........I thought you meant the huge circular saw for precisely lopping metal. A friend of mine has a 1200mm (about 50" diameter) one which has a HSS blade and it cuts for years between sharpenings, if he's careful.

No, I've never used a bandsaw big enough to sharpen. I hear about it from my sawmilling buddies but haven't seen it.

I'm not sure why I thought an Ellis was a circlesaw :)

lol

al

Those are better known as a "Cold Saw" Almost any high alloy, pre heat treated steel will make a real mess of those circular saw blades.

FWIW, band saw blades are not worth resharpening. That would be for blades used in the real world. I'm sure there is someone who knows of a bandsaw blade being resharpened, but almost of them go into the scrap barrel.

If you are going to use high quality HSS variable pitch blades, buy them made to size, from the manufacturer or a distributor who will stand behind their work, as if they are not properly joined and welded they will most assuredly fail in the joint.

The band blades get much cheaper if you buy the vendors minimum order.

blades
01-04-2017, 10:23 AM
IRA- not true if the proper down feed , rpm , coolant, proper tooth spacing, and configuration- they cut more on the order of a milling function. Blades can run from D2 steel to carbide, diamond, or ceramic tipped Cold saw units are capable of very precise cuts unlike an bandsaw which wavers a bit. I am not talking about the quick and dirty chop saw types which by your comment is what you are familiar with. Which are more of a friction saw than anything else. Note: I am a sharpening shop as well as a small machine shop as such maybe I have just a bit better insight. Most all of the previous comments regarding band saws are spot on- particularly the diddling with guides to get a 90deg cut. The small 4.5x6 import units are especially prone to being out of wack in that area but that doesn't exclude the 7.5x12 units either. As with any machine tool mass is your friend, some of these are pretty lite in that department. Any thing you can do to remove heat at the cutting area is a plus even simply rigging a compressed air feed at that point would be of benefit. 2 types of basic carbon steel bandsaw blades Hard edge Flexback- good to about 500 degs. or Hard edge Hardback good to about 700 degs. these are the least expensive types. There are several different types of BI-metal blades, the most basic is M-2. Course every MFG has there own names for items so you need to read the description of the base material to see what you are buying- won't even get into the various tooth configurations gets to be like buying tires for your car or truck, but yes to another comment about 3-4 teeth in the cut- looking at the smallest cross section of the material to be cut of course. Almost forgot in BI -Metal bandsaw blades 14tpi is about the finest offered now days. Chris

TRA
01-04-2017, 11:55 AM
IRA- not true if the proper down feed , rpm , coolant, proper tooth spacing, and configuration- they cut more on the order of a milling function. Blades can run from D2 steel to carbide, diamond, or ceramic tipped Cold saw units are capable of very precise cuts unlike an bandsaw which wavers a bit. I am not talking about the quick and dirty chop saw types which by your comment is what you are familiar with. Which are more of a friction saw than anything else. Note: I am a sharpening shop as well as a small machine shop as such maybe I have just a bit better insight. Most all of the previous comments regarding band saws are spot on- particularly the diddling with guides to get a 90deg cut. The small 4.5x6 import units are especially prone to being out of wack in that area but that doesn't exclude the 7.5x12 units either. As with any machine tool mass is your friend, some of these are pretty lite in that department. Any thing you can do to remove heat at the cutting area is a plus even simply rigging a compressed air feed at that point would be of benefit. 2 types of basic carbon steel bandsaw blades Hard edge Flexback- good to about 500 degs. or Hard edge Hardback good to about 700 degs. these are the least expensive types. There are several different types of BI-metal blades, the most basic is M-2. Course every MFG has there own names for items so you need to read the description of the base material to see what you are buying- won't even get into the various tooth configurations gets to be like buying tires for your car or truck, but yes to another comment about 3-4 teeth in the cut- looking at the smallest cross section of the material to be cut of course. Almost forgot in BI -Metal bandsaw blades 14tpi is about the finest offered now days. Chris


Blades....please read the post that alinwa made where he mentioned the cold saw, with HSS blades. Then re-read what my comments were, and think what qualified the crack about what I said as not being true.

BTW, My Haberle saws are hardly friction saws. Nor are they quick and dirty.