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Hillbilly
12-29-2016, 06:10 PM
18796

Hillbilly
12-29-2016, 06:12 PM
18797

alinwa
12-29-2016, 06:47 PM
must be a big-hearted guy if'n that's the armature for his pacemaker!

Butch Lambert
12-29-2016, 07:02 PM
Hillbilly, That lathe might fit in the spindle of one of Jackie's.

Hillbilly
12-29-2016, 08:07 PM
Butch it's a 25x120 lathe. That is a 9.5 inch shaft 10 ft long my machinist friend is making a shaft for a coal mine hoist

Butch Lambert
12-30-2016, 09:42 AM
Butch it's a 25x120 lathe. That is a 9.5 inch shaft 10 ft long my machinist friend is making a shaft for a coal mine hoist


Hillbilly, I know exactly what you pictured.

jackie schmidt
12-30-2016, 10:03 AM
18797

The American Pacemaker was, and still is, a great lathe. Heavy construction, hardened detachable ways, all roller bearing.

The one in Hillbilly's post is doing what it was designed to do, move a lot of metal.

The biggest complaint that many had about them was the clutch. This was Americans answer to stopping and staring a large machine with a heavy work piece. If not adjusted correctly, it could slip under heavy loads. There was a fine line between getting the clutch engagment tight enough to take the loads that these lathes were designed to take, and being able to get it engaged and disengaged easily.

We never owned a Pacemker, but this is an old American we have that has the same type of clutch. We bought this machine 30 years ago out of government storage, all we use it for now is boring long NCB liners that we shrink onto some shafts in way of the bearings.
The carriage is massive, giving great support when overhanging a long boring bar.

http://benchrest.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=18802&stc=1&d=1483110013

Old machines such as this have little value in today's machinery market. But for a single purpose use as we have this one performing, they are as good as anything on the market.

Pete Wass
12-30-2016, 10:28 AM
A lad named Jay Kilroy has one and has a short YouTube series of his taking the headstock apart to remove a broken gear. Impressive innards, I must say. There was a suggestion recently that he may be putting it back together soon. Looking it over, I couldn't imagine just one gear tooth breaking out unless it was a fault from the manufacturing. Classy old machine, nevertheless.

A number of YoyTube posters have monster lathes because of the lack of their value these days. The hobbiests are saving our history. Helps the phase converter market as well as many do not have three phase power at home.

Monarchs seem to have an edge with regard to the old iron being saved, just off the cuff? Were they more durable or plentiful?

Question: who will save the Bullard?


Pete

Zebra13
12-30-2016, 11:21 AM
Butch it's a 25x120 lathe. That is a 9.5 inch shaft 10 ft long my machinist friend is making a shaft for a coal mine hoist

I thought it was an Unlimited barrel...

ndh78
12-30-2016, 11:26 AM
I do my part to save the Bullards!

We have:

24" spiral drive
30" spiral drive
36" cut master
42" cut master
60" hydrashift (apparently very rare bullard has no records for it we rebuilt it 3 years ago including planing and scraping the cross rail I power scraped it myself using a 10ft camel back straight edge for reference)
60" King

And last but not least we just moved in a 120" Betts...it is a monster!

Oh and a 42" Manutrol with a hydraulic leak that was given to me by the owner of the Betts

I would like to have a large cutmaster if anyone runs across one something 54" or bigger.

jackie schmidt
12-30-2016, 12:59 PM
I do my part to save the Bullards!

We have:

24" spiral drive
30" spiral drive
36" cut master
42" cut master
60" hydrashift (apparently very rare bullard has no records for it we rebuilt it 3 years ago including planing and scraping the cross rail I power scraped it myself using a 10ft camel back straight edge for reference)
60" King

And last but not least we just moved in a 120" Betts...it is a monster!

Oh and a 42" Manutrol with a hydraulic leak that was given to me by the owner of the Betts

I would like to have a large cutmaster if anyone runs across one something 54" or bigger.

Save the Bullard, indeed. Here is a horror story or lovers of older machine tools.

Back in the 1950's and through the middle 70's, there was a large Shop in Houston over on the Greens Bayou Industrial Complex.

Their name was Greens Bayou Engineering. They specialized in servicing the Marine Industry, much as my Shop does now.

Union problems, poor management, and the demise of Todd Shipyards and the like caused them to shut down in the late '70's. One machine they could not dispose of was a huge Niles "Bullard" that would swing up to 25 feet. They mainly used it to bore large propellars.

The problem was, much of the machine was imbedded in about 10 feet of concrete. You just couldn't pick it up and move it.

The machinery broker finally told anybody that could get it out could just have it. No luck.

They finally called in a scrap dealer who brought in jack hammers and arc gougers. The more ire less busted it out, and cut it up with arc gougers in small enough prices to haul to the scrap yard.

A sorid end for such a historic machine.

JerrySharrett
12-30-2016, 03:33 PM
18796

American Pacemaker, Cincinnati, Ohio, Eggleston Ave. Been there many times. We bought 25-30 big engine lathes from them in the 1968-1990 time period.

That one will not fit in your shop Chance.

.


.

Hillbilly
12-31-2016, 01:16 AM
Jerry I would have to cut the wall of the shop out and do a major add on to fit this machine in my shop. Don't think I will ever need a barrel that big!

dmort
01-04-2017, 04:49 PM
A lad named Jay Kilroy has one and has a short YouTube series of his taking the headstock apart to remove a broken gear. Impressive innards, I must say. There was a suggestion recently that he may be putting it back together soon. Looking it over, I couldn't imagine just one gear tooth breaking out unless it was a fault from the manufacturing. Classy old machine, nevertheless.

A number of YoyTube posters have monster lathes because of the lack of their value these days. The hobbiests are saving our history. Helps the phase converter market as well as many do not have three phase power at home.

Monarchs seem to have an edge with regard to the old iron being saved, just off the cuff? Were they more durable or plentiful?

Question: who will save the Bullard?


Pete

My favorite machine was a Monarch. I don't remember how old it was but it was well made and very accurate. The Cadillac of lathes.

Butch Lambert
01-04-2017, 06:44 PM
My old Monarch 10EE just moving it in.
http://i62.tinypic.com/103akgo.jpg
http://i57.tinypic.com/2vt4g2g.jpg
It has taper, ELSR, and is the 4,000 RPM version. Came with 3 jaw Tru Adjust and a new 4 jaw, a few face plates, collet closer, and a wedge type Aloris tool post. 10EE are variable speed with a clutch. I love it even though the headstock is gawd awful long and between centers "20" is very short. Talk about heavy, smooth, and quiet. Yes, I have 2 extra sets of the very hard to find power tubes.

JerrySharrett
01-05-2017, 06:13 AM
My favorite machine was a Monarch. I don't remember how old it was but it was well made and very accurate. The Cadillac of lathes.

The Cadillac of the big lathes in the 1940-1970 period was Leblond.

After the 1970's the US machine tool manufacturing went to hell...Much of the fault was the EPA restrictions on foundries. Some like Kearney & Trecker tried weldments to no avail. Then WE THE PEOPLE sat on our a&&es and let everything go off shore.

At the 1970 International Machine Tool Show in Chicago was filled with Japanese with cameras. The 1980 IMTS was filled with Japanese machine tools..great quality but not US. Now we have ChiCom junk!!!

.


.

dmort
01-05-2017, 11:20 AM
My old Monarch 10EE just moving it in.
http://i62.tinypic.com/103akgo.jpg
http://i57.tinypic.com/2vt4g2g.jpg
It has taper, ELSR, and is the 4,000 RPM version. Came with 3 jaw Tru Adjust and a new 4 jaw, a few face plates, collet closer, and a wedge type Aloris tool post. 10EE are variable speed with a clutch. I love it even though the headstock is gawd awful long and between centers "20" is very short. Talk about heavy, smooth, and quiet. Yes, I have 2 extra sets of the very hard to find power tubes.

Very nice. I'm more than a little envious!

dmort
01-05-2017, 11:45 AM
The Cadillac of the big lathes in the 1940-1970 period was Leblond.

After the 1970's the US machine tool manufacturing went to hell...Much of the fault was the EPA restrictions on foundries. Some like Kearney & Trecker tried weldments to no avail. Then WE THE PEOPLE sat on our a&&es and let everything go off shore.

At the 1970 International Machine Tool Show in Chicago was filled with Japanese with cameras. The 1980 IMTS was filled with Japanese machine tools..great quality but not US. Now we have ChiCom junk!!!

.


.

We had a large Lodge and Shipley replaced with a Leblond in 67 or 68. It was a smooth running machine.

The few jobs I ran on it had more to do with swing than the length of the bed.

dmort
01-05-2017, 07:21 PM
The Cadillac of the big lathes in the 1940-1970 period was Leblond.

After the 1970's the US machine tool manufacturing went to hell...Much of the fault was the EPA restrictions on foundries. Some like Kearney & Trecker tried weldments to no avail. Then WE THE PEOPLE sat on our a&&es and let everything go off shore.

At the 1970 International Machine Tool Show in Chicago was filled with Japanese with cameras. The 1980 IMTS was filled with Japanese machine tools..great quality but not US. Now we have ChiCom junk!!!

.


.
You mentioned Kearney & Trecker and it rang a bell...first I thought turret lathes or maybe milling machines. Well, milling machines it was but not what I was looking for.

The table mills I ran had the horizontal and vertical controls on the spindle side of the mill.The table was deep enough to mount a steam turbine case end to end.

I have had no luck on line finding a picture let alone a brand name.

Things come back at odd times and the light might come on tonight when I get up for the second time to take a whiz. I will be sure and let you know.

dmort
01-07-2017, 12:02 PM
Adding the word "boring" did the trick...lots of pictures.

cloudrepair
01-08-2017, 10:21 PM
You mentioned Kearney & Trecker and it rang a bell...first I thought turret lathes or maybe milling machines. Well, milling machines it was but not what I was looking for.

The table mills I ran had the horizontal and vertical controls on the spindle side of the mill.The table was deep enough to mount a steam turbine case end to end.

I have had no luck on line finding a picture let alone a brand name.

Things come back at odd times and the light might come on tonight when I get up for the second time to take a whiz. I will be sure and let you know.

That sounds like a big Lucas horizontal I ran for a few years

cloudrepair
01-08-2017, 10:27 PM
18824 found pic with the spindle hanging out facing some pads on a table

dmort
01-09-2017, 11:33 AM
18824 found pic with the spindle hanging out facing some pads on a table

That is hanging out there. Do you remember what the spindle size was?

cloudrepair
01-09-2017, 11:39 AM
That is hanging out there. Do you remember what the spindle size was?

I think it was a #6 mt and about 6inch diameter.
No it had to have been a little bigger Morse tapper then that ?
Maybe an 8mt it had a double slot in it one for the drift and one for the key/retaining pin.
Sorry it been about 7-8 years

cloudrepair
01-09-2017, 12:01 PM
That weldment I had on the table was a table about 20 feet long that needed pads milled on the same plane.
I had it standing up for part of the ops and supported it with a crane.
Feed controls in one hand and the Crane in the other.

cloudrepair
01-09-2017, 12:37 PM
This shop had three leblonde lathes the middle sized one had a 9"spindle bore and we put a four jaw on the outboard acasionaly
Tha is where I got to run the leblonde lathes and they are nice.
I remember facing some parts that u could wring together they were so flat.

dmort
01-10-2017, 12:06 PM
I know it's easy to forget things after you have been away from the job awhile. Don't mean to alarm you but it only gets worse!

Two of the three floor mills where I worked were built by Morton and had a war finish. They also had a large square ram when extended would help support the spindle. All three machines had a platform you stood on when raising the head stock.

I preferred the smaller horizontal/boring mill because you could set or lift the work on or off the table with heavy nylon straps. Everyone had one or two of these in their roll around, and you didn't have to go looking for a rigger at night in the shipyard.

Looking for riggers at night could be a story in itself.

cloudrepair
01-12-2017, 12:15 AM
I know it's easy to forget things after you have been away from the job awhile. Don't mean to alarm you but it only gets worse!

Two of the three floor mills where I worked were built by Morton and had a war finish. They also had a large square ram when extended would help support the spindle. All three machines had a platform you stood on when raising the head stock.

I preferred the smaller horizontal/boring mill because you could set or lift the work on or off the table with heavy nylon straps. Everyone had one or two of these in their roll around, and you didn't have to go looking for a rigger at night in the shipyard.

Looking for riggers at night could be a story in itself.

Then I'm in trouble because I'm still on the job just not in that shop.
I'm doing cnc mill work on a mazak now.

dmort
01-12-2017, 05:15 PM
I did a search and Mazak has several plants with one in the U.S. Just watching the manufacturing process was amazing.

What is the model of your machine? I'm pretty sure I can find it on line.

cloudrepair
01-12-2017, 09:01 PM
I did a search and Mazak has several plants with one in the U.S. Just watching the manufacturing process was amazing.

What is the model of your machine? I'm pretty sure I can find it on line.

The machine I'm running now is a VTC 300 C with the 48 tool capacity.
I believe

dmort
01-13-2017, 12:33 AM
The machine I'm running now is a VTC 300 C with the 48 tool capacity.
I believe

Found one real easy. Watched a couple in operation and the feeds and speeds are way up there....amazing stuff.

Some of the milling tools looked like everyday stuff, and if so do you sharpen them in house?

cloudrepair
01-13-2017, 09:13 AM
Found one real easy. Watched a couple in operation and the feeds and speeds are way up there....amazing stuff.

Some of the milling tools looked like everyday stuff, and if so do you sharpen them in house?

No the only grinder we have is a diamond wheel on a pedestal we use for relieving tools

dmort
01-14-2017, 02:25 PM
Most of our mill tooling was high speed stuff, and you could turn it in to be resharpened.

I have a small collection of carbide inserts in my Kennedy box but I don't remember what I used them for.

Most of the lathe tools were high speed/cobalt and you ground them yourself. I have everything from 3/4 down to 1/4 inch. The 1/4 inch was for boring bars for sure.

Sometimes a job would come into the shop with the instructions "manufacture as per sample". It could be a scored shaft, damaged key way, stripped threads or whatever. The in house joke was too make the part, beat the crap out of it, and then send it out to the ship "as per sample". Of course, we never did it.

cloudrepair
01-15-2017, 03:01 PM
Most of our mill tooling was high speed stuff, and you could turn it in to be resharpened.

I have a small collection of carbide inserts in my Kennedy box but I don't remember what I used them for.

Most of the lathe tools were high speed/cobalt and you ground them yourself. I have everything from 3/4 down to 1/4 inch. The 1/4 inch was for boring bars for sure.

Sometimes a job would come into the shop with the instructions "manufacture as per sample". It could be a scored shaft, damaged key way, stripped threads or whatever. The in house joke was too make the part, beat the crap out of it, and then send it out to the ship "as per sample". Of course, we never did it.

Ya it's always fun making a part from an existing one especially when it's broken and I've seen many of those. 90 percent of the stuff I get now has a parasolid/cad file to make it from. Or I have a print i can draw up a solid from.
99 percent of the tools are carbide that I use at work.

dmort
01-16-2017, 02:32 PM
Ya it's always fun making a part from an existing one especially when it's broken and I've seen many of those. 90 percent of the stuff I get now has a parasolid/cad file to make it from. Or I have a print i can draw up a solid from.
99 percent of the tools are carbide that I use at work.

I had to look up parasolid and I'm aware of CAD but it pretty much ends right there.

The new technology is pretty impressive.

One of the things I could still do with a little practice is scrape. When I was done it was not only flat but nice to look at. Different machinists had their own pattern and my were shaped like a bird feather. Wide at the bottom and tapered to the top. Some guys put a little hook to it and it would look like a sail. I still have my scraper but it's dull from years of cleaning gasket material.

cloudrepair
01-16-2017, 09:18 PM
I had to look up parasolid and I'm aware of CAD but it pretty much ends right there.

The new technology is pretty impressive.

One of the things I could still do with a little practice is scrape. When I was done it was not only flat but nice to look at. Different machinists had their own pattern and my were shaped like a bird feather. Wide at the bottom and tapered to the top. Some guys put a little hook to it and it would look like a sail. I still have my scraper but it's dull from years of cleaning gasket material.

Scraping is somthing I haven't done.
Not sure how it is done either but interested.

dmort
01-17-2017, 02:06 PM
Scraping is somthing I haven't done.
Not sure how it is done either but interested.

There are several "how to" videos on line. They even showed some power scrapers.

Good luck and don't get discouraged.

cloudrepair
01-20-2017, 12:39 AM
There are several "how to" videos on line. They even showed some power scrapers.

Good luck and don't get discouraged.

Thanks dmort