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View Full Version : How do you know if an Anschutz barrel is shot out?



myers1361
12-23-2016, 11:39 PM
I have an Anschutz model 54 match that is 50 years old (made in 1966). I have tried numerous and different types of ammunition from Eley red box down to their Eley sport as well as other brands. My groups are not consistent so I am wondering if my barrel is shot out. I have not tried any of the Lapua ammo, CCI, etc. Would anyone have any suggestions as to whether or not I should try different ammunition or just come to the conclusion that the barrel is shot??? Thanks in advance for any help.

linekin
12-24-2016, 05:55 AM
1st off Welcome!
The 1st thing I need to ask is if you're cleaning between the different batches of ammo? If not, then you should be.
What is you're cleaning regimen? You may not be getting all the gunk out. Clean the barrel, & disassemble the bolt & clean it. These are the very 1st things to do.
What are you expecting to get out of this rifle? And how big are the groups?
Have you inspected the crown & firing pin hits?
Is this a new rifle with high expectations or a old rifle that has recently starting to do this?
A trip to the gunsmith may be in order to verify any of the above.

Keith

myers1361
12-24-2016, 09:48 AM
Keith thank you for your reply.I clean it after I shoot it ever time with Karol.The crown is in perfect condition as well as the landing in the barrel.I clean it after about 20 rounds.The rifle is 50 years old and don't know how many rounds have been shoot though it.I never heard of a 22cal barrel beaming shoot out.My groups with Norma USA match avenge 0.250 out of 10 groups at 50 yards.What them to tighter.I have not tried any of the lapua yet.Thank you for help.

earlm
12-24-2016, 10:17 AM
Is the inconsistencies from lot to lot or is it in same lot.............Have seen some OLD rifles that shot great in club events.

doclu60
12-24-2016, 03:48 PM
myers1361,
You have failed to explain your cleaning method. Do you use a brush? I had a barrel that shot lights out when new and fell off really bad as the round count went up. I, at the time, subscribed to the old notion of not over cleaning a rimfire barrel. Yes, I cleaned it, but not the way I clean now.

I scrubbed the crap out of it till I got nice clean patches. Brushing, with a good solvent, patches, brushing again, more patches. Took awhile. After clean patches, the rifle shot just as good as it did when new after a few fouling shots. I now clean different than I used to and have no issues. I shoot competitively and clean after every card, as do most all of those I shoot with. I do not remember seeing anyone using Kroil. I do use Kroil to soak a center fire bore over night before cleaning with an appropriate solvent, but not on rimfire.

Since your rifle is used and older, I would do this. I would clean the bore to a clean patch using a good solvent and a brush with a quality bore guide installed. IMO a good solvent would be Bore Tech Rimfire Formula or Pro Shot Products. If the rifle will not group better after that, I would find someone with a bore scope (preferably a qualified smith) and have the barrel checked. This is just how I would proceed. Good luck with your rifle.

drknite
12-24-2016, 04:19 PM
I am not trying to rain on your parade but perhaps. 250 is all the gun is capable of on a regular basis. You can read a lot of Internet talk but in reality a rifle that will consistently shoot 10 shot .250 groups is very good. With that being said I would try some center x or midas +. My anschutz and others I have known seem to have a preference for Lapua ammo. JMO

tim
12-24-2016, 04:40 PM
A gun that old probably had lots of crap in the barrel long before you got it. Try and find somebody with a borescope and learn to get it clean right down to bare metal first or most everything else is a waste of time.

George Atkins
12-24-2016, 05:26 PM
I have an Anschutz model 54 match that is 50 years old (made in 1966). I have tried numerous and different types of ammunition from Eley red box down to their Eley sport as well as other brands. My groups are not consistent so I am wondering if my barrel is shot out. I have not tried any of the Lapua ammo, CCI, etc. Would anyone have any suggestions as to whether or not I should try different ammunition or just come to the conclusion that the barrel is shot??? Thanks in advance for any help.

I would clean it completely. Both the barrel and the bolt. I do use Kroil and Seafoam Deep Creep, to clean my barrels, ( about everyone has their own secret sauce and method of cleaning). A bronze brush and Kroil will get the job done, few strokes with the brush, then patches, repeat ........ don't stop until you get clean patches after brushing. Then afterwards, clean on a very regular basis. You will find it does not take too long to keep it clean. Take the bolt apart, clean all the internals, good time to change out the firing pin spring as well. If this is above your pay grade, take it to a Smith that knows this type of rifle. Ignition is often overlooked and will cause similar conditions that bad lots of ammo or a dirty barrel cause. I have and shoot several 50+ year old rifles, they do require a little TLC, to keep them shooting. JMO, Hope you get it back on track.

George

myers1361
12-24-2016, 06:12 PM
Thanks again to all the replys on this matter.I do clean it with a brush with kriol on it.Then let it set will I clean the rest of the gun.I us a toothbrush to clean to bolt.I us patch after that.To clean the bore.Comes out clean.Like I said before.I'm getting quarter inch group at 50 yard.Just trying to get best out of it.I'm going to try Lapua next.Well let full know how it comes out.Thanks again to everyone.😎

JerrySharrett
12-24-2016, 06:33 PM
And use good wind flags, lots and lots of wind flags. At 50 yards at least 4 flags between you and the target. Then at least a row of 3-4 flags on the left and right.

And pay a attention to them. Learn to remember what the flags showed in relation to where each bullet goes.


.

doclu60
12-24-2016, 11:34 PM
And use good wind flags, lots and lots of wind flags. At 50 yards at least 4 flags between you and the target. Then at least a row of 3-4 flags on the left and right.

And pay a attention to them. Learn to remember what the flags showed in relation to where each bullet goes.


.

Excellent post Jerry. I guess all of us thought to look at the rifle and cleaning or the condition of the bore. I do not run as many flags as you suggest, but do run 6 Wicks style flags by Ray Hill in a straight line on the left side of the bench (right hand shooter) two of which are up/downers. Made a big difference in groups and scores after learning how to read them.

I really don't need flags to the left and right as competitors flags will show me what is coming unless I am on the end bench. Perhaps next season, on an end bench, I will put some to the end of field outside.

Wilbur
12-25-2016, 04:47 PM
OR...you can just shoot when the wind is coming from where the flags are. I don't think one row is enough to keep you from getting "caught".

Wilbur
12-25-2016, 07:21 PM
I've got to get busy...this "Christmas" theme says Jerry has significantly more posts than I do!!!

myers1361
12-25-2016, 09:18 PM
Jerry thanks for the information on the flags.Never used them.But read a lot about them.I shoot IHMSA and have been for 35 years.We don't us flags in that form of shooting.But do shoot benchrest as most as possible at home and the range.I also us a savage m12 BR in 308 and 338 Lapua and 223.They are all savage.Love there rifle.Thanks again.🎸

tim
12-26-2016, 10:12 AM
Thanks again to all the replys on this matter.I do clean it with a brush with kriol on it.Then let it set will I clean the rest of the gun.I us a toothbrush to clean to bolt.I us patch after that.To clean the bore.Comes out clean.Like I said before.I'm getting quarter inch group at 50 yard.Just trying to get best out of it.I'm going to try Lapua next.Well let full know how it comes out.Thanks again to everyone.😎

As an FYI kroil is an oil not a solvent. Probably OK for a lightly fouled bore but if yours was not comprehesively cleaned to begin with it will not do what you need. Get something like rimfire blend, made for rimfire fouling.

Dave Shattuck
12-26-2016, 10:28 AM
If you want to use Kroil it's best to soak your bore first with a wet patch of it, then let it sit for 4 or 5 minutes (or not), then either run a brush through followed by a wet patch soaked with your favorite cleaner, followed by 3 dry patches, or run a patch wet with your cleaner through followed by the brush followed by another wet patch then 3 dry. The Kroil will help to loosen any crud in the bore, so it's not a wasted effort, but Kroil alone won't do enough for rimfires.

Although, when shooting my competition airguns, where there's no heat creating the carbon ring being thrown into the mix, I only use Kroil with a pull-through. Once a year I do take my barrels off and run a nylon brush through them followed by a stronger cleaner, followed by Kroil, just to make sure nothing is building up.

Dave

Wilbur
12-26-2016, 10:58 AM
I ain't sayin' that your barrel is worn, fouled, or won't shoot well, but a rifle that old might never produce a "winning" score. Fool with it some more and if it doesn't shoot like you want it to shoot...start spending some money to get it that way. You've got two ways to go...make that one shoot or build a new one. Either choice is the same money...depending on how well you want your rifle to shoot. I'll explain what I'm saying there...or try. If you're just shooting club matches, you can get by with a so, so rifle and have fun doing it. If you have a desire to win the ARA nationals, that's a different and more expensive story altogether and in the beginning...not much fun. Once you have a rifle capable of such you can begin to have some fun once again....maybe...

And...if you're not planning to shoot competitively I'll add this - It's not always the barrel...

JG26_Irish
01-27-2017, 01:03 PM
Shot Out? Likely not, or at least, this possibility would be very low on my list of things to check. First, detail clean the bore with a rimfire solvent. Then clean it again. Next try the same ammo to look for improvements. Shoot 50 shots and track the results. If improved, you know you are on the right track. Then get some Lapua Center-X or Midas+. Make sure it is fresh ammo from 2017 or late 2016 production. Shoot it again. Check results. If my experience with Norma is like yours, you will find the groups have improved. Norma is good. Lapua is great as is Eley and some RWS. My Annie does not like Eley much though. Check action screw torques, scope mounts to be tight. Is trigger adjusted right. I once bought an old annie and the trigger was stiff and heavy. So stiff that it would pull it off tgt if I pulled to fast. Adjusted trigger and it transformed the rifle.

I have a 1958 production Anschutz Mod 54 SM. With good ammo from bench it has printed 5sh grps in the 1's but is more likely to average in the very low 2's. That is with Lapua CX and Wolf Match Extra. With Lapua Midas+ it did once print six consecutive 5shot groups at 50y that averaged 0.164"c-c and the best group of that string was 0.058". That was with an old vintage Unertl 20x scope with an extremely fine crosshair.

In my opinion, it is capable of doing slightly better on a calm day as the winds were an issue and affected at least two of the groups. So, don't expect it to shoot one 22 cal hole every group but if it cannot do that often, then something is still off.

Irish

JHB
01-29-2017, 10:44 AM
First off, if you're getting .25 groups with your gun with the ammo that you're using (that's not saying that's bad ammo) I'd say your barrel isn't shot out. It's just that every gun likes a certain brand & lot over another.
So the first thing I would do is to buy 5-6 different lots of Eley, Lapua & RWS. See which one your gun really likes & shoots a more consistent agg. Two of my annies really like Lapua & my factory barrel annie prefers Eley. So I would find which brand the gun likes best & then start testing that brand.
As far as cleaning goes, I find that Kroil works best as it is a penetrating oil & it will remove carbon better & faster than others I've tried. I know some will disagree but different brands work different for everybody - just whatever works best for you.
In my opinion, a barrel that shoots .25 groups with no tuner or no vibration controller is a pretty good barrel. You may try pillar bedding the gun for more consistent groups.

Joe