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Steelhead1
05-12-2016, 09:45 PM
Since I have never had a .22ppc, I am curious as to forming the cases. Is the .100 short due to the shoulder being pushed back, or once fired do you cut cut the length back by trimming the neck back.100.
Sorting through my friends shooting gear I found brass that looks like the shoulder at the body junction is distorted, there are also .22 ppc dies and trying to figure whether they are standard .22ppc or .22ppc .100 short!

Wilbur
05-13-2016, 11:04 AM
Never had a "short" but I believe the shoulder is pushed back.

JDMock
05-13-2016, 11:26 AM
I have shot the .22PPC short quite a bit several years ago. My advice is to contact Jim Carstensen (JLC Prec.) amd get him to build you a forming/reaming die to set the shoulder back .100. The neck must also be shortened and I would recommend reaming with the die supplied by Jim. Then all one has to do is outside turn the necks and fire form. This seems like a lot of trouble, but it only has to be done once for that lot of brass. Then you need to buy a FL sizer and a .22 PPC Wilson (shortened by .100). Good shooting...James
PS- Mike Ratigan claims that shooting the .22 PPC-Short is like cheating.

Steelhead1
05-13-2016, 12:56 PM
Thanks James,
I kinda figured thats what needed to be done. I am not sure I want to shoot a .22ppc as I have noticed of late not very many people use one anymore. As usual your knowledge of the way to do this is invaluable.

Dick Grosbier
05-13-2016, 02:51 PM
Is the .100 short due to the shoulder being pushed back,

Exactly

Dick Grosbier
05-13-2016, 02:55 PM
Thanks James,
I kinda figured thats what needed to be done. I am not sure I want to shoot a .22ppc as I have noticed of late not very many people use one anymore. As usual your knowledge of the way to do this is invaluable.

22 PPC is a real nice Varmint cartridge , I used to use one on Groundhogs.

The .100 Short 22 PPC is according to several people one of the best BR Group shooting cartridges around. By definition it comes with a degree of difficulty producing cases.

skeetlee
05-13-2016, 05:50 PM
I came up with my own little 22ppc short a couple years back. I changed the shoulder angle from 30 to 35 shortened the case body .120 and kept the neck about .050 longer than a standard 22 ppc short. I really don't think its anything special but it does shoot, and its fast. 3650 or better fast!!! I call it "Little Skeeter" Lee

VinceB
05-13-2016, 07:13 PM
If you like messing - have a go with a 'short'. It's a lot of work case-forming and admittedly when it works it can be superb - I shot my smallest ever agg. with a 'short' - 0.18in.

I was at the Worlds in Austria a few years ago on the next loading bench to Mike Ratigan - I'd brought my 22 short. When Mike got his gear out he was shooting a 6PPC!

"Where's the 'short' Mike?" I ask. "Can't be sure we'll get the right Vit 133 - it needs to be fast." How will I know Mike if it's fast enough? "The target will tell yer." says Mike.

Panic! I shot a few groups in practice and decided to put my 6PPC barrel back on - which fortunately I'd taken - it felt so 'solid' to shoot the six after the 'short'.

I've tried the Beggs and 22PPC and the straight 220 Russian - each one has its fans but for me, nothing shoots like the 6PPC.

Vince (UK)

Wilbur
05-14-2016, 08:55 AM
I agree with Vince in the long run. Out of 20 barrels, you'll get more good ones in 6PPC. That's simply my best guess and has no bearing in actuality.

JDMock
05-14-2016, 01:12 PM
I, too, believe that it is easier to get a 6 PPC that is competitive than it is a .22. Part of that is the availability of great bullets and shared knowledge. I shot N133 powder and Griffin 52 gr. fb bullets in a 14 twist Hart in the target shown above. I don't think that Rich Griffin makes bullets any more. Good shooting...James

Steelhead1
05-14-2016, 11:42 PM
Than you to all that replied, lots of good info here. My secondary thoughts are that Mike Ratigan always wanted the sporter class rifles to allow the .22 ppc and now that the caliber is recognized in sporter class I would have thought more shooters would have given it a go! I too have always shot the 6 ppc and would probably never given the 22ppc a thought, until I found one of the 34 barrels from my friend that just passed, was a 22ppc, not sure if its short or not but he was definately trying to push the shoulders back on the brass I found! Its chambered for a Bat 3 lug so I am thinking why the heck not!

sofarfrome
05-15-2016, 07:44 AM
I have a 22 Waldog (0.125" short 22PPC) in a Hall-S action. Ron Hoehne chambered and fitted a Bartlein 14tw barrel and also made 200 cases for me. I fire formed 30 cases with VV130 and some old Starke 22 cal BR bullets. Even with these fire form loads the set up showed a lot of promise. There are still some very good bullets available these days. I have Barts, Watson, Cheeks, and Tucker pills to shoot. I started with some Tuckers, Winchester SR primers, and a full case of LT-30. So far I can say this is an excellent little cartridge. I plan on shooting it in competition at Camillus in a couple of months.

skeetlee
05-15-2016, 09:21 AM
steelhead
I agree, Why the heck not!!! Give it a go. I would love to hear about what you find. After reading this post again on this fine Sunday morning, I think ill get mine out and shoot it a bit!!

Greg Walley
05-15-2016, 05:31 PM
I have some experience with the -.100 22 SPPC. I quit using it because I hate making the brass. You will need to obtain an inline neck reaming die (I believe Jim Carstensen makes one - mentioned above) so you can ream the neck/shoulder junction. This is necessary if you want easy case extraction with warm and hot loads. I made my own dual purpose die for inline neck reaming and shoulder setback so I can complete both tasks in one operation. A well made neck reaming die will give around 0.001" neck concentricity, so you will still have to finish neck turn.

I'm not sure why H4198 isn't mentioned very often as the powder of choice for this cartridge. In my opinion it's vastly superior to N-133 and N-130 (for the 22 SPPC). I brought home a lot of wood using H4198, a Krieger 1-14" barrel and 52g Forrester FB and BT bullets at 3480-3500 FPS.

I also shot well with Cecil Tucker's bullets as well as the old Remington white box 52g FB made many years ago and no longer manufactured. If you can get ahold of Cecil's or find the old Remington bullets at a gun show or estate sale, with a good barrel you will have a "zero" shooter.

Greg Walley
Kelbly's Inc.

Steelhead1
05-18-2016, 01:39 AM
Well, things just took a positive turn, found 44 new turned 22ppc brass, 25 rds loded with load data(vv-133) and the rest ready to load to fire form. So looks like some range time is in order to get thiss brass finished up. Also found a green pouch with 22ppc harrells die, and a wilson seater! Can't wait to try this out!
Thanks for the info Greg, I have a bunch of H4198 I will give that a try, as I have never been a fan of 133!

rjones
05-18-2016, 11:22 PM
22PPC 52gr Remington Match with LT-32 showing promise. Not as easy too tune as the 6 PPC.

Steelhead1
05-19-2016, 12:24 AM
rjones,
Thats interesting, have you tried any other powders? I have some older 322 and 8208 plus theres LT-30!