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drknite
05-01-2016, 11:26 AM
I was wondering what does it take to get a fair chance at some of the best ammo. When distributors and gunsmiths are passing on information to team shooters or friends, the best is gone before the average person ever sees a ammo list. Is it based upon past achievements? The insiders seem to have the information first. I guess that is one of the things that makes it so hard for a beginner or average guy to become really competitive at more than a local level. It is also one of the things that drives people out of this sport instead of growing it.

tim
05-01-2016, 01:05 PM
I was wondering what does it take to get a fair chance at some of the best ammo. When distributors and gunsmiths are passing on information to team shooters or friends, the best is gone before the average person ever sees a ammo list. Is it based upon past achievements? The insiders seem to have the information first. I guess that is one of the things that makes it so hard for a beginner or average guy to become really competitive at more than a local level. It is also one of the things that drives people out of this sport instead of growing it.

You're assumtions are less than accurate. The average person sees lists and, unfortunately lots of guys now buy blind lots. Stop reading internet BS and do some homework for yourself.
Beginners need to pay attention to when ammo is inbound and have a couple suppliers.

Kookie
05-01-2016, 01:28 PM
You can get on a list with Killough that gets you the test lots as soon as they come in. Not exactly sure how it works, but it's available to everyone. Getting good ammo is still difficult unless you have deep pockets and the time to test it before it gets sold out. It's just part of the game.

Most of the local guys are quitting rimfire and going to centerfire because of the cost of ammo and testing and still not getting good ammo. I'll be shooting our club rimfire matches by myself pretty soon the way things are going. I understand their frustration of spending a lot of $ for some not so good rimfire ammo. I have some $15 a box Eley that doesn't shoot much better then the cheap bulk boxes. You either live with it or move on.

drknite
05-01-2016, 02:44 PM
I did get on the pre order list from Killoughs. Didn't make much difference. It was already gone before I could get it ordered. Mr. Tim I have done more than my share of investigation. I have talked with national competitors who have won Ara, Psl, and Ir 50/50 events including the unlimited nationals. Your unnecessary presumptions that I would not do my due diligence and would base my decisions upon Internet gossip are unfounded. Perhaps you need to do some investigating of your own instead of jumping to conclusions. Whether you or anyone else believes it I have personally talked to people who have been there and done that. My question is have you? Anyway it is what it is. Not likely to change in near future. I will be on some upcoming ammo list and will be sending my rifle to Lapua to test after the current season is over. Next time before expounding on something you might want to make sure that you have done your homework. Or then again maybe you don't so that you can keep jumping to conclusions. Good day sir.

Fred J
05-01-2016, 03:57 PM
I send my gun to the Test Facility with a box of my standard, and let them do all the work. Lapua gives you a better choice of grades.

tim
05-01-2016, 04:02 PM
I did get on the pre order list from Killoughs. Didn't make much difference. It was already gone before I could get it ordered. Mr. Tim I have done more than my share of investigation. I have talked with national competitors who have won Ara, Psl, and Ir 50/50 events including the unlimited nationals. Your unnecessary presumptions that I would not do my due diligence and would base my decisions upon Internet gossip are unfounded. Perhaps you need to do some investigating of your own instead of jumping to conclusions. Whether you or anyone else believes it I have personally talked to people who have been there and done that. My question is have you? Anyway it is what it is. Not likely to change in near future. I will be on some upcoming ammo list and will be sending my rifle to Lapua to test after the current season is over. Next time before expounding on something you might want to make sure that you have done your homework. Or then again maybe you don't so that you can keep jumping to conclusions. Good day sir.

Your post is wrong pure and simple. Call KSS, ther is/was no insider conspiracy, most of it was simply bought blind.
If it was that big a deal and you indicated a desire for "best" grade ammo, you could have sent a gun to test last week, last month, today, next month, and found ammo. Like I said......homework.

drknite
05-01-2016, 04:51 PM
Mr. Tim I am not going to engage in a pissing contest with you. I am also not going to name shooters and gunsmiths I have talked to. In my short time in rimfire benchrest I have already seen how easily it is to be ostracized if you disagree with the crowd. I would love to have sent my rifle off to be tested but I did not receive it from Richard Gorham until 3 day's before 1st match of the season. Once the season is over I plan on sending it to be tested. Thanks for your advice.

tim
05-01-2016, 05:29 PM
Mr. Tim I am not going to engage in a pissing contest with you. I am also not going to name shooters and gunsmiths I have talked to. In my short time in rimfire benchrest I have already seen how easily it is to be ostracized if you disagree with the crowd. I would love to have sent my rifle off to be tested but I did not receive it from Richard Gorham until 3 day's before 1st match of the season. Once the season is over I plan on sending it to be tested. Thanks for your advice.

Good to hear. So in other words, it's not really an ammo problem, it's a timing problem. Glad we got that cleared up. Good shooting and my best to you, Robin, and the other superheros.

tommyt654
05-01-2016, 05:30 PM
Don't pay any attention to "Timmah" he know's everything about anything there is to know and competition shooting. You and others are in the same boat, you either hear about ammo that is supposed to shoot well from someone else or just buy a lot of test lots to figure out what your gun prefers and hope it is still available.

It does get to be expensive to compete in the upper tier as there are only so many lots available right now,good luck on your search,if I hear anything I'll pass the info on to you:) and vice-versa

drknite
05-01-2016, 05:48 PM
Thanks Tommy, unfortunately I am more than aware of Tims reputation for being a know it all. Maybe someday when some of the people I talked to get out of the sport they can tell the truth without fear of reprisal. Even then with first hand testimony people like Tim will still refuse to believe. Send you a text about some I found.

tim
05-01-2016, 06:17 PM
Guy posts question.....gets answer he does'nt like.... Veiled reference to many he's talked to ( which begs the question of why he asked to begin with) then makes foolish statement about reprisals. I gotta find out more about these traveling rimfire reprisal squads.

doclu60
05-01-2016, 09:06 PM
Guy posts question.....gets answer he does'nt like.... Veiled reference to many he's talked to ( which begs the question of why he asked to begin with) then makes foolish statement about reprisals. I gotta find out more about these traveling rimfire reprisal squads.

To the OP and Tim,
While I only visit this forum on an infrequent basis, I am quite well informed about 'Tim's' posts and the difficulty of finding a good lot of ammo for a given rifle. Tim is Tim.....self absorbed and not very friendly to newcomers, or others for that matter. A real minus as far as this forum goes IMO.....and I belong to several. Tim should just find a hole to live in with no computer to post with. Tim does NOTHING to promote the sport by being helpful. Only negative posts to new shooters. He knows 'IT ALL'. Bull crap.

I have had three different rifles tested at the two big players facilities. Two at Lapua and one at Eley. That is not a certain road to success. I feel you have to 'play the game'. Buy test lots and shoot them as soon as you can and hope there is a decent amount of said lot to buy when you find what your rifle likes. RFBR is somewhat of a money and time game. You need to play hard and fast to hit the right combination. It is just the same as any other top tier hobby or sport. Find what works before the other guy does, have the equipment and skill to carry through and you will place high. If you can't do that, then you get what you get.

BTW, I am quite new to this and feel your pain. I have a two year plan on my new KSS build. It is a top flight build. It would place high in ANY match with the right ammo and shooter. That being said, you have to put the pieces together first before that becomes relevant. Test ammo that you feel you can buy after a good lot is found. Do not waste time in between getting the the test lots, shooting it, then buying it. What I mean about 'you feel you can buy' is this. If a distributor has 400 or 200 boxes of ammo you are testing, that may be a good pick. If they only have 50 boxes, how far will that get you if only 20 boxes are left when you order? How does that effect your investment in test ammo?

I will be posting here more often, as the forum I look at the most is becoming somewhat boring. I have seen the OP of this thread post on that other forum often. As I will be starting to shoot formal events this summer, I feel this is a good place to hang out, in spite of Tim. I have shot informal RFBR for about two years now and wish to grow and help the sport anyway I can. Posting positive responses to questions asked, within my knowledge set, will help promote the sport. Posting like Tim does, will not........best of luck to the OP.......and me, for that matter!

BTW ........Tim, I am NOT afraid of any pissing match or consequences about disagreeing with you. I have only belonged to this forum for a few short months. You don't have a real big fan base here, nor are you very friendly to people who could help continue the sport as newcomers. People we need in our current political climate concerning the shooting sports. Just what does your self absorbed opinion of your self do to help the the shooting sports? Why can't you be nice and helpful to others that come here to enjoy their new hobby? To me, you are just a high horse sitting clown. You are the only non-positive I have found since joining this forum. Just saying.

drknite
05-01-2016, 09:43 PM
I also have only been at this about two years. It's amazing that instead of trying to be helpful to newcomers there are some that discourage others. While I do find the ammo chase chaotic I have no intention of giving up with or without anyone's help. I will keep testing and I suppose that the longer I go the better chance I have of finding some really good stuff.

doclu60
05-01-2016, 10:02 PM
I also have only been at this about two years. It's amazing that instead of trying to be helpful to newcomers there are some that discourage others. While I do find the ammo chase chaotic I have no intention of giving up with or without anyone's help. I will keep testing and I suppose that the longer I go the better chance I have of finding some really good stuff.

drknite,
As mentioned before, I have seen your posts on another board. I also know that part of getting good at the game is not just being able to set up the bench correctly, reading conditions and being able to shoot your rifle. Ammo is a huge part of it. If you wish to share any info, please PM me. I will share back, without some clown interfering with our joint desire to improve our results, or trying to degrade our current positions in the sport.

Sad that we should have to go private. I thought boards such as this were for sharing information to better one's position in a sport or hobby. Not to put up with people like Tim.

Best regards,
doclu60

Eidolon
05-01-2016, 10:20 PM
By going private you let the miscreants win and devalue the forum. Doing such makes no sense. Why post?

doclu60
05-01-2016, 11:07 PM
By going private you let the miscreants win and devalue the forum. Doing such makes no sense. Why post?

Please explain why posting with someone degrading your need for help does anything for your cause. I am not the only one on this forum that has spoken about 'Tim'. MANY have spoken about Tim and the crappy way he posts on this board. Tim is a non-positive poster that kinda takes the wind out of your sails when you are a new guy. To me, taking it private to not having to deal with one of, or the 'Tim' is worth it when a couple of new guys are trying to figure it out. I know it does not promote the way a forum should work. But when you have horses backsides like Tim, what option do you have?

Several months ago in open forum I asked 'Tim' if he was on a different board by a different user name. Upstate New York was my motive. There is another guy from the same region that posts in a similar style. Very high horse and not very helpful to anyone. True clown to the folks that are trying to learn the sport and grow it. He told me he only goes by 'Tim'. Perhaps this other guy is his brother, don't know.

My point being, I know a bunch of guys in the RFBR game. Most only by phone. Most, big hitters. NONE of them act like 'Tim'. Why should the OP of this thread, or myself, have to put up with someone like 'Tim', who posted NOTHING positive or helpful on this thread when we can talk privately and perhaps learn something from each other, without having to put up with a 'Tim'? Doing so MAKES GREAT SENSE! I see your point, but when you are just getting your feet on the ground, people like 'Tim' are of no use.......correction.......even if your feet are clearly on the ground........people like 'Tim' are of NO USE. Again, point being, private is better than 'Tim'. Hope you understand.

He has no 'spirit of the sport' that helps anyone, IMO, and I have lurked here far more than I have posted.

Best regards,
doclu60

PaperSniper_
05-02-2016, 07:58 AM
.....Most of the local guys are quitting rimfire and going to centerfire because of the cost of ammo and testing and still not getting good ammo. ....

Heck, I stopped shooting center fire benchrest about a dozen years ago because benchrest reloading got to be such a laborious task! :eek:

PaperSniper_
05-02-2016, 07:59 AM
I send my gun to the Test Facility with a box of my standard, and let them do all the work. Lapua gives you a better choice of grades.

I'd like to hear more about that.....cost, time, results, etc. Thanks.

gambler
05-02-2016, 08:04 AM
I hate ta tell ya all but the good stuff ammo gets culled once before it ever leaves the factory...........then it gits culled again buy the faithful, consistent buyers that know which machines turn out the best boolitts .....learning the tricks of the ammo scramble is just part of the game, no conspiracy theory there, just the way the games is played ! make a few earnest calls to KSS and put up a little earnest money and your IN ... the more you can buy at a time the better you iz !
there are no hidden secrets in this game, only questions you have not thought of yet to ask...so git your cash together and make the call. You will be surprised just how eager KSS is to grow the sport and take you in !

as far as TIM goes, we need guys like him to keep us on our toes !
JMHO !

mwezell
05-02-2016, 09:48 AM
Wouldn't it be interesting in every brick came with a different lot number? :D Hmmm.

JerrySharrett
05-02-2016, 10:27 AM
You RF shooters have all the fun. Shoot all weekend then try to outguess what is the current magic ammo.

Even with 2-3 tuners on a barrel your gun still will not shoot like it should.

Glad I parked my RF guns and stuck with the misery of reloading for CF.

Life is a bitch. It would be even more of a bitch if we weren't trying to shoot "little bitty"!!!

.

karls42
05-02-2016, 11:22 AM
I also have only been at this about two years. It's amazing that instead of trying to be helpful to newcomers there are some that discourage others. While I do find the ammo chase chaotic I have no intention of giving up with or without anyone's help. I will keep testing and I suppose that the longer I go the better chance I have of finding some really good stuff.

When I asked for some help here "Tim" told me to go build a rifle range and figure it out myself... a really swell guy!

drknite
05-02-2016, 11:39 AM
I admit that I would love to have a range. While there are some things you can only learn on your own, there are some things that can be passed to others to help shorten the learning curve. I have been very lucky to have had some these people help me out. Those who have helped know who they are and I really appreciate it. Discouraging new shooters is just not necessary. It's tough enough already.

tim
05-02-2016, 03:01 PM
[QUOTE=doclu60;777245]Please explain why posting with someone degrading your need for help does anything for your cause. I am not the only one on this forum that has spoken about 'Tim'. MANY have spoken about Tim and the crappy way he posts on this board. Tim is a non-positive poster that kinda takes the wind out of your sails when you are a new guy. To me, taking it private to not having to deal with one of, or the 'Tim' is worth it when a couple of new guys are trying to figure it out. I know it does not promote the way a forum should work. But when you have horses backsides like Tim, what option do you have?

Several months ago in open forum I asked 'Tim' if he was on a different board by a different user name. Upstate New York was my motive. There is another guy from the same region that posts in a similar style. Very high horse and not very helpful to anyone. True clown to the folks that are trying to learn the sport and grow it. He told me he only goes by 'Tim'. Perhaps this other guy is his brother, don't know.

My point being, I know a bunch of guys in the RFBR game. Most only by phone. Most, big hitters. NONE of them act like 'Tim'. Why should the OP of this thread, or myself, have to put up with someone like 'Tim', who posted NOTHING positive or helpful on this thread when we can talk privately and perhaps learn something from each other, without having to put up with a 'Tim'? Doing so MAKES GREAT SENSE! I see your point, but when you are just getting your feet on the ground, people like 'Tim' are of no use.......correction.......even if your feet are clearly on the ground........people like 'Tim' are of NO USE. Again, point being, private is better than 'Tim'. Hope you understand.

He has no 'spirit of the sport' that helps anyone, IMO, and I have lurked here far more than I have posted.

Best regards,
doclu60[/QUOTE

Always nice to see commentary from somebody that does'nt shoot and has 12 posts, usually bitching about something.

tim
05-02-2016, 03:04 PM
When I asked for some help here "Tim" told me to go build a rifle range and figure it out myself... a really swell guy!

See now, the trouble with stuff like this is that if you're going to lie, you want to make sure your post history isn'nt listed for anybody to see.
Never happened.

tim
05-02-2016, 03:23 PM
I admit that I would love to have a range. While there are some things you can only learn on your own, there are some things that can be passed to others to help shorten the learning curve. I have been very lucky to have had some these people help me out. Those who have helped know who they are and I really appreciate it. Discouraging new shooters is just not necessary. It's tough enough already.

Well I'll share some important information with you, against my better judgement.
Up here in the Northeast there has been a pretty good increase in some new shooters in IR 50/50 particularly in the New England area.
Virtually every one of them started out WANTING to learn and had open minds . In IR if anything, it is probably harder to find ammo because you need at least two guns and often what shoots in a sporter will not in a heavy gun.
In only a couple years several of these guys have gone on to win state, regional, national matches and world records.
They did it with discipline, a will to learn, fair amounts of hard work, and no pre concieved notions about
ammo conspiracy, so on and so forth.
So, frankly, man up sport because nobody, including me discourages new shooters, I have helped more than you're gonna talk to over the next several months. What I discourage is bulls..t internet theories.
What discourages new shooters is reading they are at a distinct disadvantage, implied in your first post, especially since you apparantly have yet to actually shoot a match.
If you noticed, virtually nobody with any experience posted here because too many view it as a complete waste. You don't want information you want somebody that agrees with you, which is why, ultimately, the trolls came out in full force.

Lastly, as to your first question, call KSS talk to Paul Tolsvted, ask him if what I told you was correct or not, he likely read this anyway, tell us what he said.

drknite
05-02-2016, 04:38 PM
Your right the trolls do come out. You see one every time that you look at yourself in the mirror. As to my shooting ability, I am learning but I did place 1st in sporter, 3rd in factory unlimited, and tied for 3rd in unlimited but was beat out on X count. Do I still still have something to learn absolutely and I don't shoot against some of the guys on the east coast. What I do know is that when I check the results from ara, psl ir50 shoots up there is I don't see your name winning ***t. While I have a lot to learn one thing for sure is it won't be from an ass like you. Maybe if I am lucky you will come south and we will get to settle our differences face to face. By the way I talked to Paul Tolvstad today.

doclu60
05-02-2016, 07:34 PM
Always nice to see commentary from somebody that does'nt shoot and has 12 posts, usually bitching about something.

Tim,
I don't know where you get your information, nor do I care. Bitching about you seems to be rather common place though, so I am nothing special there.

I have not posted much here because as far as match shooting, I am totally new. I have been shooting bench for several years learning as I go, investing in equipment, making contact with people who have a name in the sport, via e-mail or phone conversations and mostly doing my own lot testing and with the past help of a super guy on the east coast......learning how to read conditions with the wind flags he makes. This guy has spent hours on the phone with me and traded countless e-mails. In my minds eye, he has the 'spirit of the sport'. He wants me to improve, he cares about a new guy getting involved in the sport and shows it with his attitude. All of this to prepare for my upcoming venture into formal ARA Unlimited comp this summer. You sir, also have attitude, just not a constructive or helpful one.

As far as all the people you have helped......I don't see it on this forum. All that many see here is how toxic you are. Now either we, ALL who feel this way, are incorrect, or you have some issue you are not seeing. I would guess?.....numbers are on my side about that. I shoot quite a bit when my work schedule allows, don't know why you think I don't. As stated earlier, don't care.

You keep being a horse's butt to new guys, and us new guys will keep finding people in the sport that are willing to give good mentoring so we improve and get something beneficial from the sport and our time and hard earned money pursuing it. I am certain that the way you post, you were shooting top scores and high X counts right from the crib, with no help from anyone more experienced than you!!

This will be my last sparring match with you. You have a sour attitude that is not worth my time to deal with, nor would I suggest others that are new dealing with it either. This would be where you post back, "Good doclu60, I don't care if you ever post again. You know nothing about what you are typing or what you are talking about, you no shooting clown". That would about sum it up from all the posts I have read that you authored.

Almost all the guys and gals in this VERY limited part of the shooting sports are wonderful people. You sir, are not. BTW, start using your spell check, would greatly add to your high opinion of yourself, you know.....spelling. Spelling is very important on a forum when trying to impress others about how 'cool' you are, compared to them. Just a hint from a guy that doesn't shoot......OH! look, I spelled 'doesn't' correctly.....do I get an X for that? Grow up Tim. I am sure you have some worth to new guys. Why you choose not to use it is beyond me, most likely others as well.

Regards, but not best
doclu60

tim
05-02-2016, 08:31 PM
Your right the trolls do come out. You see one every time that you look at yourself in the mirror. As to my shooting ability, I am learning but I did place 1st in sporter, 3rd in factory unlimited, and tied for 3rd in unlimited but was beat out on X count. Do I still still have something to learn absolutely and I don't shoot against some of the guys on the east coast. What I do know is that when I check the results from ara, psl ir50 shoots up there is I don't see your name winning ***t. While I have a lot to learn one thing for sure is it won't be from an ass like you. Maybe if I am lucky you will come south and we will get to settle our differences face to face. By the way I talked to Paul Tolvstad today.

Careful what you wish for there Joey. Dragging the RFC crew over here, are we?
Got an interesting call from a great supplier to the sport talking about that king sized chip you carry around on your shoulder, make some sense now.

drknite
05-02-2016, 08:39 PM
You didn't get a call from a damn soul. I am such a small fish they don't even know who I am.

LW Moore
05-02-2016, 10:02 PM
Myself just being a CF shooter, I just read the RF section for entertainment... Your doing an absolute wonderful job with this thread..........

drknite
05-02-2016, 10:08 PM
I'm out!

Eidolon
05-02-2016, 10:14 PM
Interesting. I read a dissertation on spelling errors and see a dissertation filled with punctuation errors.

doclu60
05-02-2016, 10:43 PM
Interesting. I read a dissertation on spelling errors and see a dissertation filled with punctuation errors.

Well it was more than a dissertation on spelling. Perhaps you missed that. Since punctuation was never my strong suite......I stand guilty as charged!

Pete Wass
05-03-2016, 08:10 AM
there are always times of drought. It sucks for new folks and folks who don't keep a stock ahead but it's a reality in shooting. I have kept a year's supply ahead since the first time primers, powder and bullets dried up. If one can't afford to do that, they should question if they can seriously afford to play in these games.

Any good components and ammo are like money in the bank, secure and comforting to have but pays no return to speak of.

Pete

tim
05-03-2016, 03:06 PM
there are always times of drought. It sucks for new folks and folks who don't keep a stock ahead but it's a reality in shooting. I have kept a year's supply ahead since the first time primers, powder and bullets dried up. If one can't afford to do that, they should question if they can seriously afford to play in these games.

Any good components and ammo are like money in the bank, secure and comforting to have but pays no return to speak of.

Pete

Pete, when you're right you're right. An absolute must do.

drknite
05-03-2016, 03:39 PM
I would like to offer my apologies to Mr. Tim. It has come to my attention that Mr Tim is indeed a first class shooter,in fact in one organization a hall of famer at the gold class level. We did not get off to a good start. While we still have our differences about the ammo situation, I have found that he is much better person than I originally thought. Do we agree on everything. Absolutely not. Me and my wife don't even do that. Anyway for showing my ass I apologize to the readers of this forum and will try to do better in the future.

tim
05-03-2016, 04:28 PM
I would like to offer my apologies to Mr. Tim. It has come to my attention that Mr Tim is indeed a first class shooter,in fact in one organization a hall of famer at the gold class level. We did not get off to a good start. While we still have our differences about the ammo situation, I have found that he is much better person than I originally thought. Do we agree on everything. Absolutely not. Me and my wife don't even do that. Anyway for showing my ass I apologize to the readers of this forum and will try to do better in the future.

It is'nt necessary, it is appreciated, it shows class. The delivery might be less than ideal, sometimes, but I'll always sincerely try and help. Good shooting.
The ammo deal will hopefully get easier as supplies keep coming in, just keep at it and get a few contacts.

drknite
05-03-2016, 04:47 PM
Thanks Mr Tim. It is a little tougher being a relative beginner as you haven't made the contacts and friends within the game who can sometimes help your advancement and answer your questions.