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alinwa
04-05-2016, 12:07 AM
So I have the rail, I have the scope and a couple barrels in hand.......only thing missing is an action.

Does anyone care to opine?

Your perfect railgun action

please be specific.

If I'm not convinced otherwise I'm planning on a topload, drop port, probably something with a full diameter bolt body.......and it's gonna' cost a lot of time and money since nobody makes one AFAIK

help please?

al

Steelhead1
04-05-2016, 01:16 AM
Well if I were building a new rail I would be buying a Marsh, Sahguaro! Just built a LV rifle on a Marsh, and it works better than any rifle I have owned! Current own 3 stolles (kodiak, teddy, polar) 1 Bat 3 lug, and the marsh. I can lift the bolt on the marsh with 1 finger! And close bolt so easily there is no disturbance of the gun!
The Polar I have is on a Hasecuster Rail.

sdean
04-05-2016, 01:44 AM
I would try Jim Borden and see if he would make an action with no cutouts and a bolt without an ejector or extractor.

John Kielly
04-05-2016, 02:04 AM
Al,

Top load drop port?

Ain't that a tad challenging to load?

John

Dusty Stevens
04-05-2016, 02:11 PM
The big bat topload is a joy to use. I have one and love it. I would try the kelbly top port now if i was starting over

alinwa
04-05-2016, 02:58 PM
OK...... So Doc Marsh is fresh out of toploaders for at least 6mo. (they all went on Kensler rails LOL!!)

John, I think I can do a topload dropper in a long action BUT.....I'm also hearing from some that the drop port is too slow.

Dusty I need your phone number..... my BAT's ARE NOT a joy to use.....maybe you can change my mind

Where I am right now is maybe (MAYBE) a topload microport, this after SWEARING at the sun moon and stars I'd NEVER EVER EVER buy another action with a spring ejector.....I just hate going up inside a brand new action with a rattail file and a dremel so's I can glue in a hunk of prophylactic to keep my cases from being destroyed....and then having to listen to everybody saying "Ohhh THAT little ding??? no problem, I just carry around a bucket of tooling to FIX IT and then throw may brass away and make more..."



rant



off



al

mks
04-14-2016, 08:56 PM
I know nothing about drop ports, but couldn't you put a LIGHT ejector spring in the thing to speed it up? Still wondering why it is so much slower than a side eject...

alinwa
04-15-2016, 01:02 AM
I know nothing about drop ports, but couldn't you put a LIGHT ejector spring in the thing to speed it up? Still wondering why it is so much slower than a side eject...

gravity acceleration is slow......and me, having never owned a dropper wasn't aware of it. I've spoken with two shooters who have to seriously hold back (NOT a good thing!) and just when they loosen up and start to roll they jam a round. As a slamshooter I can see this being a problem. I am one who'll work out with an empty rifle just getting the moves.

I got this idea (stole it.... was FORCED to stole it....) from a very competitive friend of mine 25yrs ago. This friend was a rated competitor in several other sports and he decided to try shooting. He came to me with a signed blank check and asked me to set him up. Jim Borden built him a rifle.....from the back to the front including scope, rest and bags, dies and press, EVERYTHING....(the guy didn't own and had NEVER OWNED a rifle)

Jim built him a rifle and me a rifle....(I DID own another rifle)


or two



We got our rifles



ME, the experienced one, set out to "teach him how to shoot'.....



HOLEy HOPpin TOADFishes did I learn a lesson....within a month this guy was KILLING me. I hadda' learn all over again.

You ever see a boxer get up on his toes? A quarterback set up to take off on a run? A pingpong player getting ready to receive the serve???

This guy amped up, ramped up and RAN from day one...bibbity-babbity-BAM-BAM-BAM then look thru the smoke......

I now shoot fast.

Your idea of a light ejector is not bad. I'm currently making a drop port and will try it. I'll call it "gravity assist"

Boyd Allen
04-15-2016, 01:56 AM
If you look at the record book, you may notice Gary Ocock's name. He has done pretty well with his rail gun over the years. He does not use an ejector on his rail gun action, preferring to manually remove fired cases from the bolt's face. Last time that I looked, there was no unlimited gun rate of fire trophy ;-)

Wilbur
04-15-2016, 08:49 PM
If it shoots fast....you'll want to shoot it as fast as possible. Some rail guns won't shoot fast and you have to wait a second for it to quit vibrating after you slam the front stop. What I'm saying is that all rails ain't the same and the same rail may be different from barrel to barrel. Just choose an action that can be fired rather quickly with a reasonable cost.

If you're gonna look every shot.....get the cheapest "good" action you can find.

Dusty Stevens
04-16-2016, 02:30 AM
I think a drop port on a rail gun would be one of those forehead slapping times the first time you shot it. One of those "arghhh why didnt i plan on where my brass is gonna go!!"

alinwa
04-16-2016, 04:49 PM
OK....

Wilbur, as far as the 'fast' thing, this Kenzler rail feels as dead as lead. I don't know that the riding surface bumps are made of but they feel perty cool, kindofa high durometer rubber teflon stuff.......just thud. I bought an extra 6mm 8" ratchet for the thing so's I will be able to shoot 600-1000 Heavy. This is something I have done and IMO if you can't shoot fast at long range you might as well stay home. 100-200 yeahhh, maybe you can "get it back" but that simply does not happen at long range. You WILL run your rounds in one weather slot


Or you will lose.


IMO


Dusty, I'm already pretty much resigned to having to re-mill the trigger hole and remount the guard, possibly onto the action. And on this design, my clearances are such that if I extend the hole there is a place for the cases to drop into a tray.


On this note......I planned on milling out the trigger slot from day one anyway because I want to run the barreled action in and out for balance. Is this completely out-to-lunch or what??? I don't see any setups where guys slide the barrel fore and aft for setup. What am I missing?

Wilbur
04-16-2016, 11:18 PM
Prolly, they don't have the capability to move much either way....trigger slot.

Yes, it's way better to shoot fast (at any distance) but I'm alluding that you may get a barrel that won't shoot fast. Hope you don't! Good Luck and let us know what happens!!!

alinwa
04-16-2016, 11:53 PM
Yes, it's way better to shoot fast (at any distance) but I'm alluding that you may get a barrel that won't shoot fast. Hope you don't! Good Luck and let us know what happens!!!


Ohhh, I thought the vibration problem was in the system, not the barrel....

Well, I'll soon find out

Dusty Stevens
04-17-2016, 01:54 AM
I have no doubt youll get it figgered out. And youre right about them kenslers they are top shelf. Wish i had one!

HuskerP7M8
04-17-2016, 10:57 AM
On this note......I planned on milling out the trigger slot from day one anyway because I want to run the barreled action in and out for balance. Is this completely out-to-lunch or what??? I don't see any setups where guys slide the barrel fore and aft for setup. What am I missing?

Don't know about anyone else but I've been playing around for years clamping the barreled action anyplace from the receiver ring to the crown.

Don't bother asking what I've observed or discovered though, because my set-up is for RF and not CF. I can almost guarantee you'll see behavior entirely different than I did.

Landy

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff145/HuskerP7M8/Rail%20Guns/IMG_0153s_zpsxw7ea5xa.jpg

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff145/HuskerP7M8/Rail%20Guns/Rails_zpsf66a31c8.jpg

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff145/HuskerP7M8/Rail%20Guns/ScopeComparison_zps6157ca4a.jpg

Wilbur
04-17-2016, 03:19 PM
I'm just using what I observed here. When I got my rail and had a barrel chambered it shot very well as quickly as I could shoot it. The barrel wore out and I put on another exactly the same as before. If you shot that barrel the same as the first one it just wouldn't shoot. If you paused between shots it was capable of winning but not nearly as good as the first barrel. Perhaps the first barrel ruined me for good!

alinwa
04-17-2016, 05:04 PM
Don't know about anyone else but I've been playing around for years clamping the barreled action anyplace from the receiver ring to the crown.

Don't bother asking what I've observed or discovered though, because my set-up is for RF and not CF. I can almost guarantee you'll see behavior entirely different than I did.

Landy

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff145/HuskerP7M8/Rail%20Guns/IMG_0153s_zpsxw7ea5xa.jpg

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff145/HuskerP7M8/Rail%20Guns/Rails_zpsf66a31c8.jpg

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff145/HuskerP7M8/Rail%20Guns/ScopeComparison_zps6157ca4a.jpg

I like purple

alinwa
04-17-2016, 05:06 PM
I also like that trick where the top clamp turns into Marb reds

Dusty Stevens
04-18-2016, 01:58 AM
I also like that trick where the top clamp turns into Marb reds

Thats what happens in my shop

CubCouper
04-18-2016, 07:30 PM
Two cents worth... shooting a rail well is more like shooting a bag gun than you might think. I've seen more matches lost because of shooting fast than I've seen won because someone could shoot faster. My Bat 3L top-loader nearly got kicked down the road when I bounced the gun at last years Nats on 2 shots (1 at a 100, and 1 at 200) and cost myself 4 HOF points. Yep -- I saw my condition, went fast, and didn't see it when I jacked the gun with the normal 3L 'slightly stiff' bolt lift. The lesson is this: Gun handling is critical -- even with a 60# rail. Don't be surprised if you see my old Powell sporting a well-worn Bat-B this year.

Rod

jackie schmidt
04-18-2016, 10:07 PM
I would just get a standard R/L non ejector Panda and convert it to a drop port. It's not that difficult, just put a Sako Extractor on the bottom between the lugs and cut a slot in the bottom.

This is assuming Stiller is no longer making them. What's the word on that.

I have a drop port Diamonback on my rail.

mrspradlin
04-19-2016, 12:51 AM
I would just get a standard R/L non ejector Panda and convert it to a drop port. It's not that difficult, just put a Sako Extractor on the bottom between the lugs and cut a slot in the bottom.

This is assuming Stiller is no longer making them. What's the word on that.

I have a drop port Diamonback on my rail.

Last word I got was Jerry was dealing with a big govt contract for tactical actions and his rimfire action leaving the centerfire benchrest actions on the back burner.

Dave Dowd
05-04-2016, 10:13 PM
RBLPRE Bat B 2" diameter for extra weight is what's on mine. Works for me. ;) Dave

alinwa
05-04-2016, 11:07 PM
RBLPRE Bat B 2" diameter for extra weight is what's on mine. Works for me. ;) Dave

Dave, is that a spring eject or mechanical? Reason I ask is my RLR guns (including a BAT) all ding my necks....

alinwa
05-04-2016, 11:12 PM
I would just get a standard R/L non ejector Panda and convert it to a drop port. It's not that difficult, just put a Sako Extractor on the bottom between the lugs and cut a slot in the bottom.

This is assuming Stiller is no longer making them. What's the word on that.

I have a drop port Diamonback on my rail.

As it sits it looks as though this is my only option for a drop port, converting one myself. My plan right now is to do one on a 700 for practice, (mainly to get the spacing and hole size right) then decide on an action.

Some of the guys I've spoken with say "sure we'll do it" until it gets right to the wire then it's "well, Jerry did patent the process.....maybe better not" others just outright will not touch the idea, feeling that it's Jerry's property.

Dave Dowd
05-05-2016, 07:39 AM
[QUOTE=alinwa;777432]Dave, is that a spring eject or mechanical? Reason I ask is my RLR guns (including a BAT) all ding my necks....[/QU Are you sure the action is the problem? Spring eject. I have NEVER had a problem with dinged necks in a half dozen BATs I have owned.(all spring eject) I do not know if BAT makes a mechanical eject bolt. I have a Velcro pad on the base of the rail in case brass lands there. Dave

Dusty Stevens
05-05-2016, 06:45 PM
Ive never seen one ding the necks either. I got em from an sb to an m with a big top port thrown in and owned countless others and never seen a neck get dinged

Tim Singleton
05-05-2016, 08:06 PM
Kelbly's has a top load in the in stock actions list
I wish someone would buy it. It's killing me I need one for the rail I got from you, Dusty

zfastmalibu
05-05-2016, 08:18 PM
FYI drop ports are not slower at all. I build them on Pandas and Borden BRMs and have tried to run the bolt fast enough to catch the case before it drops, cant do it. Both Jim, and Ian will sell you a left port with a no eject/extract just add a mini 16 at 6 o-clock and cut the port. I am sure you could get one with no port and you could cut a top port if thats what you want. Nice thing is no ejector hole for brass flow. My top pick is the Borden for its fire control. Timed, well guided pin, and plenty of energy. Bat will make you a drop port if you ask so will Defiance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTSAiRZj_48

Butch Lambert
05-05-2016, 08:43 PM
Mine was like Jackie's. It was a Diamondback drop port. Didn't slow anything down.

Jerry H
05-05-2016, 10:37 PM
Make darn sure you never blow a case with those sako/m16 extractors on a left port. That is why Stiller used a remington extractor instead so there would be some steel cover before the port opening. You don't want a face full of high pressure gas or worse yet shrapnel.

jackie schmidt
05-06-2016, 08:44 AM
Make darn sure you never blow a case with those sako/m16 extractors on a left port. That is why Stiller used a remington extractor instead so there would be some steel cover before the port opening. You don't want a face full of high pressure gas or worse yet shrapnel.


The way most of us shoot a rail, it would be more like a chest full of extractor.

I converted my LV Farley into a drop port, and yes, the Sako Extractor is uncovered. But it's a choice I made for myself. I like drop ports that much.

varminthunter1
05-09-2016, 01:06 PM
My preference would be a Bat B 1.55" RB LP No ejector on the bolt with the Sako extractor in the 6 o`clock position. Bat will build it, all you have to do is cut the drop port yourself.
These are really slick, and do work. oh, and get it Melonited while you are at it.
my $.02

Jeff

alinwa
05-10-2016, 02:35 AM
My preference would be a Bat B 1.55" RB LP No ejector on the bolt with the Sako extractor in the 6 o`clock position. Bat will build it, all you have to do is cut the drop port yourself.
These are really slick, and do work. oh, and get it Melonited while you are at it.
my $.02

Jeff

I'm guessing you cut the port then send it off to MIMI yourself? The one time I tried to recrown a melonited bbl war'nt perty....

Butch Lambert
05-10-2016, 09:55 AM
I'm guessing you cut the port then send it off to MIMI yourself? The one time I tried to recrown a melonited bbl war'nt perty....

To recrown a Melonited barrel takes a little extra. You can clamp a Dremel on your toolpost and cut a .005 groove around the barrel and then part it off. Crown as usual then.

Dave Coots
05-15-2016, 06:42 PM
RBLPRE Bat B 2" diameter for extra weight is what's on mine. Works for me. ;) Dave

This is the gun Dave used to set a couple of world records recently. I'd say it works pretty good for him. I have a sister to his rail with the smaller BAT model B with right eject. It has shot several ten shot ones in competition. Also doesn't ding brass.

jackie schmidt
07-15-2016, 03:17 PM
I think a drop port on a rail gun would be one of those forehead slapping times the first time you shot it. One of those "arghhh why didnt i plan on where my brass is gonna go!!"


http://benchrest.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=18043&stc=1&d=1468606631

Butch Lambert
07-15-2016, 04:47 PM
Similar to what I did with my Diamondback drop port. Hensler attached a box to the bottom of his drop port.

skeetlee
07-17-2016, 12:59 PM
I see that Jim Borden has just came out with a drop port. Very cool!! Lee

jackie schmidt
07-19-2016, 12:10 AM
I see that Jim Borden has just came out with a drop port. Very cool!! Lee

Do you have a link on that? I would be very interested in looking into one of these.

Tim Singleton
07-19-2016, 04:47 PM
Do you have a link on that? I would be very interested in looking into one of these.

https://bordenrifles.com/2016/07/16/new-product-borden-rimrock-brm-right-bolt-left-port-bottom-eject/

jackie schmidt
07-19-2016, 09:37 PM
Thanks Tim.