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mikedominick
11-25-2015, 11:04 AM
hello everyone!

I want to buy pre-owned lathe for general gunsmithing. I realize that now I can not afford buying a new machine. Guys please, recommend something. I consider Southbend Heavy 10. What should I check before buying it?

thanks

John S
11-25-2015, 12:40 PM
www.practicalmachinist.com

What you need to know.

James Lederer
11-25-2015, 03:20 PM
A heavy 10 is not a bad choice. Usually you can find one for about $1000, usually with some tooling. Craigslist is a good resource for this. You'll want to make sure it comes with a 3 jaw, and a 4 jaw chuck in good condition. Check the ways to make sure they aren't too worn in front of the chuck. You can check this by moving the saddle to in front of the chuck and then tightening down the lock screw finger tight. Then move the saddle towards the tailstock end of the bed. If there is a significant increase in resistance to movement as you move away from the headstock, beware. If the spindle is sloppy, it's not too difficult to remove shims to tighten it back up. If it doesn't have a quick change toolpost, you'll probably want to add one. Much easier to use than the old lantern style.

JerrySharrett
11-25-2015, 04:14 PM
If a SBH10 comes with a lever type collect closer look it over really close. Many H10's were used in production with the lever type collet closer and are subject to abnormal wear. Generally a H10 can be pretty worn and still do good barrel fitting.


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CMaier
11-25-2015, 05:24 PM
do some reading in this forum. do a search on
'LATHE' and 'LATHES'

Wayne Shaw
11-25-2015, 05:54 PM
www.practicalmachinist.com

What you need to know.

The guy who runs that site is a full blown a$$hole.

JerrySharrett
11-25-2015, 06:19 PM
Really nice, nicely restored, older model, well equipt H10, 4' on eBay for about $4900.




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mikedominick
11-26-2015, 05:01 AM
A heavy 10 is not a bad choice. Usually you can find one for about $1000, usually with some tooling. Craigslist is a good resource for this. You'll want to make sure it comes with a 3 jaw, and a 4 jaw chuck in good condition. Check the ways to make sure they aren't too worn in front of the chuck. You can check this by moving the saddle to in front of the chuck and then tightening down the lock screw finger tight. Then move the saddle towards the tailstock end of the bed. If there is a significant increase in resistance to movement as you move away from the headstock, beware. If the spindle is sloppy, it's not too difficult to remove shims to tighten it back up. If it doesn't have a quick change toolpost, you'll probably want to add one. Much easier to use than the old lantern style.

One seller from the Craigslist has a good machine. But he said that he installed the baldor motor there https://www.mrosupply.com/motors/ac-motors/general-purpose-motors/26523_vm3546_baldor/ this is his model. I checked, it is 3 phase. I do not have 3phase. Is there sense to convert single to 3 phase?

JerrySharrett
11-26-2015, 06:03 AM
In house or in shop 3phase conversion is simple and reliable on motors under about 2hp. The baldor motor shown does not have the correct mounting frame for a H10. I wonder what his mounting bracket looks like.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/SOUTH-BEND-10L-TOOLROOM-LATHE-4-BED-MACHINE-RESTORED-TO-ORIGINAL-CONDITION-/252145826430?hash=item3ab50ffa7e:g:ROUAAOSwI-BWMOiK

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shortgrass
11-26-2015, 07:13 AM
I'm a firm believer in a larger lathe than the H10 for general gunsmithing. 12"-14" swing is better, IMO. The H10 is find if all you'll do is chambering, but will limit what else you might want to do. I'd not get 'hooked' on one size or one particular brand name just because it gets a lot of internet attention. I'd not get in a hurry and I'd look around some before I reached for my wallet. When I attended (and graduated) from gunsmithing school 24yrs. ago I did the majority of my chambering on a H10, but when I bought for my own shop I knew I wanted a bigger machine. I had 16 yrs experience as a 'job shop' machinist before I took time off to go to school. I still spend a considerable amount time 'driving' a 20"x 84" Summit, but not for gunsmithing.......

martin zuck
11-26-2015, 10:25 PM
I'm a firm believer in a larger lathe than the H10 for general gunsmithing. 12"-14" swing is better, IMO. The H10 is find if all you'll do is chambering, but will limit what else you might want to do. I'd not get 'hooked' on one size or one particular brand name just because it gets a lot of internet attention. I'd not get in a hurry and I'd look around some before I reached for my wallet. When I attended (and graduated) from gunsmithing school 24yrs. ago I did the majority of my chambering on a H10, but when I bought for my own shop I knew I wanted a bigger machine. I had 16 yrs experience as a 'job shop' machinist before I took time off to go to school. I still spend a considerable amount time 'driving' a 20"x 84" Summit, but not for gunsmithing.......

Have been gunsmithing for the last 50 years. I have a pair of H10 lathes and somewhat curious as to the shortcomings you have experienced with these machines?

ArtS
11-26-2015, 11:26 PM
Have been gunsmithing for the last 50 years. I have a pair of H10 lathes and somewhat curious as to the shortcomings you have experienced with these machines?

I have a South Bend 13 I bought rebuilt almost 20 years ago. In comparison to a Heavy 10, it is more powerful, more robust feeling, handles rough turning better etc. It is simply more capable as an all around lathe. The rub is that almost all my gun work centers around barrel work. The headstock on the 13 is so much bigger and longer, that no barrel I have ever worked with is long enough to allow it to reach through the headstock and an outboard spider. I would love to give up the versatility in exchange for the ability to handle barrels more easily. I believe the Heavy ten is an almost ideal barrel lathe.

One thing to watch in any lathe is minimum turning speed. My 13 goes down to 50 rpm. Wait till you thread a 10 or 12 pitch barrel at 80 rpm. It can be a WHOOPIEE!

shortgrass
11-27-2015, 08:48 AM
Have been gunsmithing for the last 50 years. I have a pair of H10 lathes and somewhat curious as to the shortcomings you have experienced with these machines?

The main shortcoming I see is they don't have enough swing for some tool making and some custom modifications that some custom builders employ. You'll have to dig up a set of gears if you ever want to cut a metric thread. For many who are 'hobbiests' desiring to "do their own work" they will (maybe,, or maybe not, as many lack the skills) want to make something,,, a tool, a jig or fixture, and the H10 can be a bit light for some of that work.. I wasn't 'born yesterday', either. I've been working in the machining industry since '74. Not 50yrs.,,,, but not yesterday, either. I have a 'formal' gunsmithing education ('93 grad from MCC) so I'm not 'new' to that field, either. The OPs' question was about a lathe "for general gunsmithing". You can work around alot of different senerios when all you have is a small lathe, but the swing capacity ain't one of 'um. I wouldn't mind having a H10 as a second machine, but I' I'd really rather have a small, geared head Clausing if I was to buy a second lathe for gunsmithing.

NezRongero
11-27-2015, 09:06 AM
Looking at the H10 in the eBay link provided by Jerry, for gunsmithing work is there a limitation issue between a single tumbler as shown compared to a dual version? I've never used nor seen a single tumbler in the flesh.

JerrySharrett
11-27-2015, 11:38 AM
Looking at the H10 in the eBay link provided by Jerry, for gunsmithing work is there a limitation issue between a single tumbler as shown compared to a dual version? I've never used nor seen a single tumbler in the flesh.

There a few threads the single tumbler can't cut like 228 tpi. It actually has 2 levers also. One is vertical.

SB13, even the 3 step one is too long thru the headstock for benchrest length barrels.

For benchrest barrel fitting the H10 only takes 3 cuts to bring a 1.2"'tenon to 1.06".

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brickeyee
11-27-2015, 01:47 PM
With the easy availability of Variable Frequency Drives 3-phase power is very easy to create now.
You can easily start with 240 V split phase (regular old 'Edison' power) and end up with a very clean 3-phase 120 V system.
Even 240 V 3-phase is easy.
Higher voltages get to be a little bit more work and that level of available power need is pretty rare in gun work.

martin zuck
11-27-2015, 08:14 PM
Not to make a pissing contest out of this issue my ego requires that I add a little more to this conversion! I have worked in more than a few "fly by the seat of your pants" machine shops thru the years where you had to be an real machinist,not a machine operator! In fact this was my real education after I graduated from the Pennsylvania gunsmith school back in 1962. The ideal H10 models were the double tumbler machines with a 4 1/2 bed,intergal taper attachment with the graduated tail stock. These models also had the larger 1 3/8 I.D. headstock designed for 5C collets. Some of the H 10's had a smaller headstock I.D.
Getting back to my point I still am waiting to find out what some of these operations are that these lathes are not up to! Just in case, I have a friend who has a 13" machine and if I ever need it I'll certainly use it! To put it another way, I have a good running old EH series Mack truck. When I need a loaf of bread or a gallon of milk I guess I could use the truck but instead I take my car. Now that l've gotten that out of my system I feel better I think

JerrySharrett
11-28-2015, 07:05 AM
Looking at the H10 in the eBay link provided by Jerry, for gunsmithing work is there a limitation issue between a single tumbler as shown compared to a dual version? I've never used nor seen a single tumbler in the flesh.

It didn't last long!


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