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feffer
11-08-2015, 01:49 AM
I have an old Lee Six stock which has a slight bend on the butt...something like "cast-off" on a shotgun stock. It does not ride the bags quite right having a right to left movement as the gun is slides back on the bags. Through the scope it looks like the cross hairs move to the right about 2" and slightly up at 100 yards. This is a hollow stock, either fiberglass or graphite and weights about 24 oz. I like it except for the lateral movement. Is it possible to bend the butt-stock slightly to straighten this out? Possibly by heating it? Maybe by putting a half inch hole in the butt and heating it from the inside? Maybe forced hot air or heated water.

It has a thin epoxy paint finish. Of course, I'd like to make the bend w/o damaging the finish, but if there were no other alternative, that would be acceptable.

I think "warp" is fairly slight, so I'm guessing the correction bend would be less than 1/8" Anyone have experience trying something like this?

Dusty Stevens
11-08-2015, 11:17 AM
Itll never be right unless you mill it. Some are defective from the mold as they were pulled out too fast. Once fiberglass is cured (1-2mo) its not going anywhere.

Boyd Allen
11-08-2015, 11:38 AM
Bending the stock is a non starter. One thing that you could do is to add material so that the bottom of the butt is wider and it and the adjacent side areas are properly aligned. Of course this would require a bag with wider ear spacing.

Dick Grosbier
11-08-2015, 11:47 AM
Is it possible to bend the butt-stock slightly to straighten this out? Possibly by heating it? Maybe by putting a half inch hole in the butt and heating it from the inside? Maybe forced hot air or heated water.

I don't think so.

feffer
11-08-2015, 12:17 PM
Bending the stock is a non starter. One thing that you could do is to add material so that the bottom of the butt is wider and it and the adjacent side areas are properly aligned. Of course this would require a bag with wider ear spacing.
I tested this a long time ago by using layers of tape, and it did improve the situation. The x-hair movement was much less. The gun is right at 10.5 lbs though (very slightly under), so I can't add significant weight. Bending would be much more ideal, but from what I'm reading won't work.

David Halblom
11-08-2015, 05:17 PM
I tested this a long time ago by using layers of tape, and it did improve the situation. The x-hair movement was much less. The gun is right at 10.5 lbs though (very slightly under), so I can't add significant weight. Bending would be much more ideal, but from what I'm reading won't work.

that the butt needs to be re-shaped w/ tape. Take it to the next logical step and figure exactly how much you need to add to the back end for the rifle to track straight , again w/ tape. Then you can build up that side w/ epoxy and glass cloth and get it permanent.

As for weight, the slots you see in some foreends that people think are cooling holes are actually weight reduction. My HBR stock lost almost 3 oz when I cut 4 5/8" by 2" slots on both sides

David

Chism G
11-08-2015, 06:52 PM
I have an old Lee Six stock which has a slight bend on the butt...something like "cast-off" on a shotgun stock. It does not ride the bags quite right having a right to left movement as the gun is slides back on the bags. Through the scope it looks like the cross hairs move to the right about 2" and slightly up at 100 yards. This is a hollow stock, either fiberglass or graphite and weights about 24 oz. I like it except for the lateral movement. Is it possible to bend the butt-stock slightly to straighten this out? Possibly by heating it? Maybe by putting a half inch hole in the butt and heating it from the inside? Maybe forced hot air or heated water.

It has a thin epoxy paint finish. Of course, I'd like to make the bend w/o damaging the finish, but if there were no other alternative, that would be acceptable.

I think "warp" is fairly slight, so I'm guessing the correction bend would be less than 1/8" Anyone have experience trying something like this?



How does the gun shoot,with the bend in the Stock?


Glenn

Gene Beggs
11-09-2015, 08:36 AM
I'm with Glenn Chism on this; how does the rifle shoot?

A tiny stock imperfection like you describe will not affect the accuracy of a benchrest rifle. You could spend a lot of time and money correcting this and mill every surface to the nearest gazillionth and gain nothing whatsoever in the way of accuracy.

Concentrate on things that make a difference and ignore inconsequential trivia. :)

FWIW

Gene Beggs

Greg Walley
11-09-2015, 09:07 AM
You might have the “Silhouette” stock specifically made for off-hand shooting. They had an off-center cast in the rear of the stock with a high cheekpiece.
It would be a pretty involved job trying to build it up and get it straight for sandbag shooting. You might be better off buying a new stock.

Greg Walley
Kelbly’s Inc.

jim1K
11-09-2015, 09:16 AM
If you are shooting long range BR. it means a lot, But if you are holding a gun in F class it doesn't.The easiest way to fix a crooked stock is to add a UHMW plate to the rear and turn it upside down on a mill and mill the plate edges parallel to the fore arm edges. It will track way better to the point you will see the hit at a 100 and 1000. Mine will stay in the center over 1.5" of travel that is vertical and side to side but i have these plates on both ends. If you shoot free recoil you need it…… jim O'Hara

Boyd Allen
11-09-2015, 10:11 AM
Another issue is the alignment of the barreled action to the stock. The stock can be aligned with itself, but if the thrust line is off from the stock, there is the potential for problems.

I think that it is worth mentioning that shooters have done very well in short range benchrest shooting in other ways than free recoil. When starting out with a new (to me) rifle, I always try shooting it several ways to see which it prefers. Given that there are record holders, and HOF members that do not shoot free, I would not loose much sleep about not having that option when shooting a particular rifle.

Chism G
11-09-2015, 11:17 AM
The butt stock on one of my BR rifles is a little off angle. It shoots just as good as the straight butt stock on my other rifle. I shoot free recoil BTW.
I'm just an average shooter,enjoying the Sport. Perfect stock design has not been a big concern. When I get tired of looking at the "Off Angle' Stock, I will do as Grey Walley suggested. Buy a NEW one.


Glenn

feffer
11-09-2015, 02:32 PM
Initially, I thought that the imperfection was trivial, but 3 successive barrels showed the tendency to produce slotted groups along the path of movement. I realize this could be an ignition problem, or bag-drag or even technique; but it does seem to be real. I've tried variations of technique, but nothing seems to consistently work. IE some good groups and then more slots. Haven't worked on the action yet, but would like to eliminate the stock issue before I do.

The stock is a specific LV configuration, so it should be straight. It was a particular Lee Six design which has an upward slope/angel on the fore-end which matches the slope on the butt-stock. So the effect is that it recoils straight back with no vertical sight movement. Perhaps this is why the horizontal movement is so noticeable.

Another issue is the alignment of the barreled action to the stock. The stock can be aligned with itself, but if the thrust line is off from the stock, there is the potential for problems
I wondered about misalignment of the barrel to the stock as well and took the action out, then enlarged the stock bedding area. Next, I tried shims to move the action around. I could not get rid of the horizontal sight-picture movement even with a lot of shims; so I think it IS some warping of the stock.

Some have suggested building up the butt sides with epoxy (bondo?). That works on the "add" side, but what about the "take-away" side? The stock is a non-filled "shell" so removing material from one side will probably cut through the shell.

I'm considering an alternative: cut about 1.5" off the bottom where it contacts the bag and re-glue this piece in-line with the fore-end. Then use epoxy to "plaster" out the misalignment. Almost no weight would be added this way. It would just look a bit odd.

Boyd Allen
11-09-2015, 08:52 PM
I would not make any cuts on that stock's shell. What I was suggesting is that the stock could be enlarged at the bottom of the butt (requiring a custom bag with significantly wider ear spacing) so that the added material creates a wider, properly aligned, symmetrical bag contact surface that the existing stock falls within. Of course this would make the stock heavier, and there would be the additional cost of the custom rear bag. I believe that Lee's molds were not milled out of aluminum billets based on scans of digitally corrected masters, rather they were built up from wood and glass around plugs that did not have the advantages of scanning and digital measurement/correction. Molds that are constructed as his were were known to warp over time, because of the heat generated by the chemical reaction as the epoxy set. I should add that all of this is based on second hand information, and not direct observation, and should also be viewed with the knowledge of my imperfect memory. If I have any of this wrong, please correct me.

Gene Beggs
11-09-2015, 10:47 PM
Feffer,

If you can't accept the slight imperfection in your stock, I would either throw it away or give it to someone rather than continuing to frustrate yourself with attempts to correct what you consider to be a big problem. If in your mind you think it's a big problem then it's a big problem! Get rid of it and send the action to Greg Wally at Kelbly's for a new stock. Their work is top notch and delivery time is second to none. Life's too short to fret with trivia. :rolleyes:

On the other hand, some people take great pleasure in fussing with things, making mountains out of mole hills, going to extreme lengths and expense trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Ask me how I know! :rolleyes: It just all depends on what you want. Free advice. I'm not always right. All I know is what I've learned in 72 years. Not everyone sees the world from my point of view. :)

Later

Gene Beggs

Eddie Harren
11-10-2015, 06:30 AM
I immediately thought of "Muskrat" and his stock straightening story.

Wilbur
11-14-2015, 02:13 AM
There's some really good stuff in this thread!

From my standpoint I don't think the stock is the entire problem. It may be but I don't think so. Additionally, I don't know why some rifles shoot better than others but they do and will continue to do so until somebody figures it out. I do know this - a good rifle can find a good barrel while others never will. All I can say is don't rule anything out until you have a winning rifle. At that point, stop workin' on it. If it seems to have quit shooting well, buy another barrel or two and save them if they don't shoot just right. The problem may be something other than the barrel. Lastly, if you've done everything you can think of doing, re-bed the action. If the rifle continues to shoot poorly - sell it and start over. You're not winning anyway, and spending time and money, so that's not a real problem. If you run across a winning rifle for sale at a seemingly high price...buy it. That solves half the problem. All that remains is finding a good barrel when you need one....which is not a small task by any means.