Rail Gun prints

[Bill Gruby]

I am new here so please bear with me. My name is Bill Gruby and I am looking for a set of prints to build a Rail Gun. I will even work with someone to produce a set of prints. We tried to get them from McClusky but he is now deceased and prints are no longer available. Any help at all would be greatly appreciated.

To admin. If this is in the wrong place I apologize. Please move it to the correct place.

Thank-You

"Bill Gruby"

[Wilbur]

No - it's not the wrong place. Wish I had some prints to offer!

Anybody have such?

[Bill Gruby]

Thank you for the post Wilbur. As I said I'll gladly draw up a set if I can get basic numbers. Then all that need them can get them.

"Bill Gruby"

[Bill Gruby]

OK-- nothing is out there, no problem. I will do it anyway. All I need from someone is a better than average Bolt action name and a Barrel name and length for 6mm PPC. Please don't take this as a whim, I assure you it is not. I will build this, with or without help.

"Bill Gruby"

[Dusty Stevens]

I have a set of mcluskey prints. It builds an average rail gun nothing spectacular

[MilGunsmith]

I have a set from Speedy

[Bill Gruby]

I sent a message to both of you but I don't see in my sent messages where it went thru. Are either of you willing to get a set to me. I know what they cost so reimbursement is not an issue. Thank you both.

"Bill Gruby"

[Bill Gruby]

MilGunsmith

I answered you message but still have no way of telling if you got it?? gruby10@comcast.net

[Bill Gruby]

What material (metal) are Rail Guns constructed from?

"Bill Gruby"

[Wilbur]

Mostly aluminum - the bigger "frame" parts. Some are anodized, some not.

[Bill Gruby]

Aluminum will overcome any Muzzle Climb that could exist during the recoil?? I was thinking 416 Stainless.

"Billy G"

[Wilbur]

Don't think you need steel but each to his own...that's what makes rail guns interesting. I don't know anything at all about cost or machining but can't think of anything else that would prevent the use of steel. I think Ed Pennebaker's rail was made of steel and it wasn't stainless. He would leave it out (in the rain) and it would rust up quite a bit. Was kinda "offsetting" to get beat by such a rusty device but it shot like the hammers of hell.

That said, rail guns need a good barrel...to be a good rail gun. Beyond that, you need to be able to shoot it very fast and that's what you're looking for in the design. Pay close attention to the effort and time it takes to shoot a sighter, return to the record target, make an adjustment and shoot.

[Bill Gruby]

Be doing some old school engineering and come up with something of interest Wilbur. Just the base, made from 7075 T3 1.5 inches thick and 10 X 28 inches. All shaped and drilled and tapped you have an up weight of close to 45 lbs. Multiply this by 2 and your piece comes in around 90 lbs. without all the rest. All together we are looking at maybe 120 lbs. total. Don't think we need steel here. :D I have been a machinist for over 40 years and this project will tax all I know and then some.

1 cubic inch of Aluminum weighs 1.56 ounces

"Billy G"

[CubCouper]

A Colorado shooter built a very competitive railgun laminating layers of 3/4" Baltic Birch plywood. Gun with barreled action still came in around 30 pounds total, I believe.

I don't know the magic that seems to become part of some rails and not others but when a gun has that magic, it is something special to shoot. My own belief is that the whole gun needs to be "in-tune". If it just isn't shooting up to par, try sliding the barrel in the block forward or back a bit, and watch for other areas where you can tweak the assembly (torque, position, etc). Even the smallest amount of change can help dial up from mediocre performance. I experimented a bunch with a Begg's style tuner on my rail and found that a .001" movement in the tuner could reliably change group size and shape.

Rod

[Bill Gruby]

At this point in time I would like to thank those that came forward to help me in my quest. Ian especially you for sending me all that info. I will have a set of prints finished by Friday. They will go to a Gunsmith friend of mine. If he gives them the OK, I will start one in a few weeks. Again, Thanks to all that helped the new guy.

"Bill Gruby"

[Bill Gruby]

The prints are complete sans dimensions. I will add them today and they are off to be checked by a professional Gunsmith. Do I have any doubts, absolutely not.

"Bill Gruby"

[Bill Gruby]

SILENCE --- The absolute worst form of criticism known to man. There is one thing we all forget, we were all new at something one time or another. We had to learn, someone had to help. I didn't become a Master Machinist without the help of others, I will also be the first to help when others ask. Guess I am different. Thanks again to those who did come forward.

"Bill Gruby"

[Tim Singleton]

What was the feed back from your gunsmith friend? Your project sounds great. I am interested in rail guns myself. I do not have access to the equipment or the knowledge to build one from the raw

Could you email me a set of the plans you have? I will pm you my email

Tim

[Bill Gruby]

Tim

First off thank you for asking. Now as for the Gunsmith, he said it could be built as is but some points could be beefed up to make it safer. This is slowing me down a tad but by no means is it stopping me. I will do as he recommended and take them back to him. No big issues were found, just not enough attention was given to safety stops and such.

Until one of these is built and tested I'm afraid no prints will be available. I cannot accept the responsibility that goes with it at this time. Sorry.

"Bill Gruby"

[Wilbur]

Bill - are you building a rail gun without having seen one in person?

[Bill Gruby]

If you had asked that last Friday Wilbur I would have had to say yes. Over the weekend I saw three of them still in their transport cases. I was there when they were set up, fascinating.

"Bill Gruby"

[Wilbur]

OK then....you might just come up with something that will win. I hope so!!!

Alternatively, you could think about it a couple of days longer. Just sayin' ! You've got all winter.

[Dusty Stevens]

I know with railguns the more you use one the more features of a different one you want.

[Bill Gruby]

I wish to simplify its use. A lot of those bells and whistles seem to complicate.

"Bill Gruby.

[Bill Gruby]

This should show you all that I am serious.

"Bill Gruby

[Dusty Stevens]

Is that side knob gonna have enough there to be able to really lock it down? You gotta really tighten that up or itll enlarge your groups

[Bill Gruby]

I believe so Dusty, it is a 3/8-16 coarse thread. The knob is 1.250 in diameter. The ones I have seen are this size. If not there is plenty of room for correction.

"Bill Gruby"

[Dusty Stevens]

Keep us posted on your progress

[Bill Gruby]

Wouldn't have it any other way Dusty. There are still a lot of things I will need help with I am sure.

"Bill Gruby"

[epoletna]

Please see us informed of progress!

[Bill Gruby]

Sorry about the delay, bad time of the year to start something this big. Before I get too involved, is there a maximum barrel length for a Rail Gun? If not what is the most used length I am leaning toward a Kelbly Panda Action.

"Bill"

[Dusty Stevens]

Kelbly makes a new top port railgun action that should be perfect. No max barrel length- most use a 1.450 at 22-24"

[Bill Gruby]

Thank you Dusty. I will check on their Top loader. I was going to go with Left - Load, Right - Eject Dual Port. The Barrel Length is as I figured.

"Bill"

[Dusty Stevens]

The top port actions are a gamechanger for railguns

[Bill Gruby]

Would it be a good idea to join the NBRSA ???

"Bill"

[Tim Singleton]

Would it be a good idea to join the NBRSA ???

"Bill"

Yes sr. I don't recall where you're located some areas may have more IBS matches. But I would think you plan to shoot registered matches with it when it's finished

[Bill Gruby]

Location is the East Coast, Connecticut to be exact. Look to the top right of this post.

"Bill"

[Tim Singleton]

Where do you plan to shoot?

[Dusty Stevens]

Join the ibs and the nbrsa. Its cheap and we all need to support the organizations. If you travel youll shoot both

[Bill Gruby]

Rear adjustments almost finished,

"Bill Gruby"

[Wilbur]

Looks pretty good!

[Bill Gruby]

Thank you Wilbur. It has a ways to go yet though. Probably another 10 to 15 hours work.

"Bill"

[Bill Gruby]

I really apologies for no updates but it is because there are none. I am at a standstill to the chunk of Aluminum for the base gets here. It is 9 days past due at this point.

"Bill"

[Bill Gruby]

Weight means rigidity which in turn yields accuracy. Am I correct? If so what do these bad boys weigh in at average?

"Bill"

[Bill Gruby]

Is anyone here ???

"Bill Gruby"

[Wilbur]

I don't know if weight means anything in terms of accuracy as there are light varmint rifles that shoot as good as rail guns. What you're looking for is being able to shoot very quickly.....and accurately. A lighter rail might shoot well but be difficult to keep it in the same place while shooting.

Came back to add what you asked for...in general. My rail is made from plates of aluminum that are an inch thick and the "parts" are not small. I don't have a scale but it seems that each half weighs about 25 pounds...barrel included. If you hammer the "feet" into the bench, blow the dust out of the holes, reset the base, and bump the top forward a time or two....it will stay where it is. Don't know how it would act with Super Feet!

I will say this...if your rail is nailed into the bench and you allow the recoil to hit the back stop...you have to re-aim and re-settle the rail.

[Bill Gruby]

Thank you Wilbur, that's pretty much what I needed to know. FYI the base on my rail will be 1.5 inch 7075 T3 Aluminum 27.250 long and 10.000 wide. About 55 lbs.

"Bill"

[Dusty Stevens]

Id say more than 99% of them are 1" but a few are 1.5 like the kensler rails. Man theyre heavy.

[Jay Young]

Thank you Wilbur, that's pretty much what I needed to know. FYI the base on my rail will be 1.5 inch 7075 T3 Aluminum 27.250 long and 10.000 wide. About 55 lbs.

"Bill"

Bill, I build them with 1-1/4" and 1-1/2" thick plates, I have only built 1 that was 1" and 1 that was 2" because the customer wanted it that way. 1-1/2" is plenty, Good luck...

[Bill Gruby]

Thank you all. I thought I was going to thick for the base. I fell better about it now. I can't wait for that chunk of Aluminum to arrive. 1.5 X 10 X 36. I haven't machined a piece like that in years. LOL

"Bill"

[Wilbur]

When you get the rail built and work out the bugs, you can cut off what you don't need. You might believe the heavier the better, and that's OK for now, but at some point you'll wish it wasn't that heavy. I think there's some point that's heavy enough and anything over that is just weight that has to be carried for nothing. I'll also say that I don't know where that weight point is....but somebody does.

[Bill Gruby]

Time will tell Wilbur. This cam via FedEx 1.5X10X39 weighing 64.45 lbs. The base will come from this. The picture only suggests the massiveness of this piece.

"Billy G"

[Jerry H]

For a 6PPC, the minimum weight of a plate type moving top is 25 pounds to control vibration bounce on the rails while the bullet is still in the barrel. The base weight is just to keep it in place on the bench. A base as little as 15 pounds can be used if it is stiff enough (2 inch vertical beams) for vibration control but you would have to forgo the use of bump stops with that little weight. A common BR rumor has it that the base should be twice the top weight.

[JerrySharrett]

And, it doesn't hurt to add a couple of 25# bags of shot to the base to help hold it in place.

One thing that needs to be checked when setting up a rail is the rigidity of the benchtop itself. Several years back rail shooters discovered those heavy bench tops set on massive pillars at St Louis would MOVE if not much pressure at all was put on their sides.

.

[Wilbur]

I think a lot of concrete benches will move if you lean on them just a little. Don't lean on them!

[Bill Gruby]

In watching videos of some matches I see a lot of railguns using everything from elastic bande to surgical tubing to do what looks like trying to tame the recoil. How come no one has added springs for this purpose?

"Bill"

[Dusty Stevens]

They have bill. Ive seen a few spring returns

[Wilbur]

Catch the recoil and push the top to battery with your hand. If the top ever strikes the base (the stop) on recoil you have to stop and make sure the rail is where you started and will hold there. Alternatively, you can use springs and do that every shot. Again, each to his own. Keep in mind that the sole purpose of a rail gun is to shoot fast.

[Wilbur]

By the way, I thought some more about how benches would sometimes move and remembered something I learned along the way. There was a range that had wooden benches and everytime we shot there my ribs would be sore starting sometime Monday night. I finally realized that it was because I was pushing on the bench with my body while aiming. OK, sometime later, I shot a match from concrete benches and the same thing happened Monday night. When I returned to that range, I checked to see if the benches moved when leaned on and they did just a little bit. Sooo, if you ever end up with sore ribs, you'll know what happened - and it ain't a good thing.

[Bill Gruby]

Metal meats metal for the first time. Sometimes you just have to peek. LOL The plate will be cut and squared this week then I will mill it to shape and mount it all. Guess it's time to order the barrel action and trigger group.

"Bill"

[Dusty Stevens]

What type sighter cam setup do you have on there?

[Jerry H]

Bill, if those are steel or carbide balls, you may want reconsider that choice. What material are you planning to make the rails out of? I am not saying they won't work, but you are probably not going to like them in use.

[Bill Gruby]

Dusty first -- Kind of embarrassed here as I don't know what that is for. Could you explain its function for me and maybe a picture.

Jerry -- yes they are tundsten steel balls. The unit is a transfer bearing with a 150 lb. load capacity. They have good radial movement and restricted lateral movement. The rails will be a pair of stellite (cobalt alloy) rods for each bearing.

"Bill"

[Jay Young]

Dusty first -- Kind of embarrassed here as I don't know what that is for. Could you explain its function for me and maybe a picture.

Jerry -- yes they are tundsten steel balls. The unit is a transfer bearing with a 150 lb. load capacity. They have good radial movement and restricted lateral movement. The rails will be a pair of stellite (cobalt alloy) rods for each bearing.

"Bill"

Bill, The cam is used to go from the bottom part of the target to the top, Here is a pic. (Left handed rail though) Good luck...J

[Bill Gruby]

The further I go into this project the more I realize I did not know what I have gotten myself into. Thank you for that info. I need to do more research to incorporate that cam. I now see how important it is.

"Billy G"

[Dusty Stevens]

You may have been money ahead to buy a used railgun or at least try one out first. You said something in an earlier thread about eliminating unnecessary stuff from ones youve seen but everything on a railgun has a defined purpose i assure you. I havent seen any extras you can do without

[Bill Gruby]

Thank you Dusty, you may be right, but I have to keep going now only at a much slower pace. The only thing I left out so far was the cam. I have a way to get it in without much trouble. Thank you again to all of you.

"Bill"

[Dusty Stevens]

Keep us posted on the progress. It looks very nice so far

[Wilbur]

I noticed you have 3 "ball" type doodads for the top to sit on. Make that 2 doodads and a flat for the third...on the rear. Make one or the other something like delrin and put enough countersunk screws so that the delrin won't flex/warp when it get older.

[savet06]

Bill,
I am following this thread with interest because 1) I love to see diy projects from talented individuals 2) I shoot benchrest and have always dreamed of owning/building a rail gun 3) I am a very amateur hobby machinist 4) I live in CT and would love to find out where you will be shooting this beauty when she is all done. I run the matches at Bell City in Southington (IBS score) and you are welcome to come to any of the matches and introduce yourself. The benches are definitely not rail gun worthy but the guys are top notch and a few of us do our own metal work.
Good luck with your project and keep those updates coming!
Mike

[Mike Bryant]

One thing you'll find out from building your own rail gun is that you'll wind up changing things to make it better as you use it. I've built 3 rail guns and every one of them was different in design. The first one was pretty simple with the adjustment knobs for vertical and for the sighter cam being located at the rear of the rail gun where they were easy to get to from the back of the rifle. The second one was pretty unconventional and used two 3/4" plates put together for the base. Everything ran on dresser balls and play could be adjusted out on the vertical plate. It shot well and I used it for years. Aaron French owns it now. The third one was a copy of Jay Young's rail gun except it lacked the smoothness of Jay's rails when you moved it back and forth on the rails. I'm presently shooting a Jay Young rail, but still have the copy. The smoother the rail gun works and the faster you can operate it, the better off you are when it comes to rail guns. Here's some photos of the ones that I built.Rail gun page (http://bryantcustom.com/about/rail.htm) Also photos of a lot of the rail guns around the country in another link. (http://bryantcustom.com/galleries/railguns.htm)

[ebb]

Mike I went to your web page to look at the rail guns. Noticed the heading "our faith" clicked on it and read it, great testimony!!!! Thank you for having the courage to share it. It was Cool! Never did get to see the rail guns, But I saw what was more important. Thank you

[Mike Bryant]

Mike I went to your web page to look at the rail guns. Noticed the heading "our faith" clicked on it and read it, great testimony!!!! Thank you for having the courage to share it. It was Cool! Never did get to see the rail guns, But I saw what was more important. Thank you

EBB, the older I get the more important the faith part is and the less important the shooting becomes. I never did completely retire as I was still barreling a few competitors barrels. Found out though when I went back to gunsmithing that I missed it more than I had thought. Not so much the work, but the interaction with customers who had become friends.

[Wilbur]

I just hate to say I don't know what you're talking about but I have to do it AGAIN. You wrote:

"Jerry -- yes they are tundsten steel balls. The unit is a transfer bearing with a 150 lb. load capacity. They have good radial movement and restricted lateral movement."

What do you mean by "transfer bearing" and why any lateral movement at all? I'll also confess that I don't know which direction your talking about when you use them fancy words like radial and lateral but I can guess...then ask.

[mrspradlin]

I just hate to say I don't know what you're talking about but I have to do it AGAIN. You wrote:

"Jerry -- yes they are tundsten steel balls. The unit is a transfer bearing with a 150 lb. load capacity. They have good radial movement and restricted lateral movement."

What do you mean by "transfer bearing" and why any lateral movement at all? I'll also confess that I don't know which direction your talking about when you use them fancy words like radial and lateral but I can guess...then ask.

Wilbur,

It looks like what we call an omni roller. Basically its a ball that is mounted in a carrier that allows the ball to spin in any direction except up or down. Now I say there is no movement up or down but I havent seen any that dont have some play up and down. You see them mounted in say a floor and a box is pushed on to them and you can change the direction the box needs to go.

[Wilbur]

Thanks for the explanation. I don't see how that could work for this application but I don't know everything...like I think I do. :)

[mrspradlin]

Thanks for the explanation. I don't see how that could work for this application but I don't know everything...like I think I do. :)

For years my dad had a sign in his shop that said "Quick higher a teenager while they still know everything" so I guess you never grew up. Lol

[Butch Lambert]

Some photos of one of my rail guns. I think Jerry Stiller said he made the original prints, but I got mine from Joe Kubon. I made changes on the second one. Like Mike said we find ways to make them suit our own needs.
http://s272.photobucket.com/user/butchlambert/media/DSC01368_edited.jpg.html
I think it is better to have your base and top as low as possible. My stop for the front vertical adjustment is not a pinch bolt. Push the black knob forward to loosen and pull back to tighten.
http://s272.photobucket.com/user/butchlambert/media/DSC01364_edited.jpg.html
This is my first model.
http://s272.photobucket.com/user/butchlambert/media/DSC01367_edited.jpg.html
The carry handle in the middle is also a stop. In the bottom side of the top is and adjustable spring loaded delrin button that would operate on the handle.
The two delrin buttons had jacking screws from the bottom for adjustment.
I have more photos, but not on the net. I also tried tooling balls in place of my round delrin buttons. Didn't see a difference. My last model had the sighter cam adjustment on the LH side to make it quicker to adjust. The big windage knob was internal LH thread internally. The windage rod was pinned. I had better luck with the barrel vee block with a delrin bushing between it and the barrel. I'll see if I can find the other photos and will try to get them on the net.
Nick Marino in South Texas has my first one and a gentleman in Canada has the other. It was a fun build, but very time consuming. I used one of Jerry Stillers drop port and a Shilen barrel.