Unlimited Rail Gun Enthusiast ?

[SWASHBUCKLER1]

After reading the posts about and comments about the Sniper King match, I had a few thoughts and would like to share them and hear everyone else thoughts.
* What about starting a rail gun registry? For Rail Gun owners and shooters.
* Breaking down registered matches where Rail Guns and Rail gun owners compete into a special group registry, results or log so rail gun activity can be recorded & shared with the same like people.
I've been involved in several clubs organizations where this type of stuff is available, hunting dogs, hot rod cars, boats, etc.
I for one have a passion for all Rail guns and would like to see the class grow, I'm not for the 5 shot group matches but understand why they were put in place ( to equal the playing field ) so more shooters can compete in the events, but I feel there would be a greater interest in the Rail gun class if we would do something to seperate it from the other classes like I think was originally suggested?

Rail Guns are works of art, they also offer the shooter a option that is not available to most in any other shooting discipline. So we as bench rest shooters should embrace these works of art and try to preserve and grow this discipline as often as possible.

I know this would be a major undertaking but like everything else, those envolved and interested would be the catalyst to do such a thing and get this started if there is enough interest. Myself! I'm very intrigued by these machines and shooters that shoot them, if you have not taken the time to witness a Rail gun event I suggest you do so, you will be blown away by the speed, precision, accuracy and design of these unique machines. I'm a huge Rail gun fan, and would like to see this aspect of the sport grow as well as the Bench Rest sport as a whole grow.

Thank you for taking the time to read this post and I welcome and look forward to your reply's.
P.S Thank you Wilbur for allowing us to have this type of discussion and keeping this forum alive. If I can help in any way please let me know.
Rich Henderson

[Dusty Stevens]

Im one that hides behind a rail when i can. Wish i could shoot it way more

[SWASHBUCKLER1]

Dusty I'm with you, I priced my Rail, then took it to the range the very next day. Shot several groups, started off with a group of 3, all in the same hole. Then I thought Id shoot 5, all in the same hole? I started thinking??? OK I'll try a group of 10 and after that group I'm hooked, all 10 in a tiny hole. WOW! These machines are so good I could not bring myself to sell it and the buyer understood thank goodness. All I can say is if you have never shot or witnessed a Rail gun in action you are missing out, they are truly works of art when working properly. WOW!

[SWASHBUCKLER1]

" I told a buddy of mine, I like to shoot paper, he's a hunter but if your into shooting targets and want to see where your bullets print, you might not want a Rail Gun as this one seems to shoot all of them into one hole" thus not allowing me to see where the other 7-8 bullets go" WOW! I've never thought this type of accuracy existed outside the very best shooters realm.

Now the challenge begins trying to learn this thing! and thank goodness I had a witness, he's as amazed as I am but now I have to keep this thing satisfied?

[expiper]

Rich,,,,get another bbl quick,,,save that one for Nationals etc,,,,dont burn it up plinking,,,Roger
PS<,,,I have a Hasecuter rail for sale also,,,,

[SWASHBUCKLER1]

Roger very good advice and I think I'll do just that, order a couple of barrels for my rail and save this one. Thanks

[Dave B]

For whatever reason I've not had much luck when it comes to trying to save a barrel. After removing it and re-installing, it never seems to be the same as before removal. Could be in the actual torque of the barrel to the action? Could be the way the barrel block is reinstalled? Maybe something else I've overlooked? This isn't just with a rails but with sporters and heavies too. Once the barrel comes off and then back on, I haven't had constant success in repeat performance.
Dave B

[Wilbur]

Explain a little more about what a "registry" is...we might can do that if the match results are available.

[SWASHBUCKLER1]

A registry can be just about anything you want. But what I was thinking was a place to register a rail and shooter / owner's info.
1. Short bio on Rail & Shooter
2. Clubs that hold Unlimited matches & results
3. Match results along with up coming matches
4. Everything Rail related ?
5. Pictures of rails, clubs and shooters, etc.

Wilbur That would be awesome, I had never thought about asking you, but it would be very convenient if you were to do it here. Thank you for even considering it.
Unlimited Rail Registry ?
I'm sure a lot of these guys can add to this and may even have some better ideas, but in summary it would be a place for Rail gun lovers and shooters to hang their hats, so to speak or at least keep information pertaining to the Unlimited Rial guns, owners and competition. ?

Just a few ideas and I look forward to hearing the others thoughts as well.
Thanks Rich

[SWASHBUCKLER1]

FBecigneul Thanks!
That would be a great place to start, I think it would be great to start a registry? That way guys on the fence can have a centralized place to check out these wonderful machines and shooters that shoot them. I'm excited and would love to see the Unlimited class grow, and it has to start somewhere, why not here.

On my last trip to the range I had several guys, competitors come over and check out my rail that I spent more time talking about it than I did shooting it, most shooters don't have any idea what a rail gun actually is. Several IDPA pistol shooters were amazed with the rail. I had one serious trap shooter stop and look and thought it was something out of the future. LOL He said if they had guns like that years ago he would have gotten envolved. I told him they have been around for many years, just not to many people have seen or are exposed to them. He asked if I would call him the next time I brought it to the range so he could watch me shoot it. ( potential new rail gun owner )? Who knows.

Saving the Barrel?
There's a unique story behind my rail gun, and I would be happy to share it. It originally belonged to Mike Swartz, he was a regular here and passed away a few years ago. I think he was well known, respected here on BRC and was a machine shop owner. The barrel on it now is the second barrel of it's life and was chambered by another well know gunsmith that did a lot of Mikes work, so I'm leaning toward Dave's thoughts and ideas about saving barrels? It shoots so well I hate to disrupt it? or take a chance on it never shooting like it does currently.

I hope other rail gun enthusiast will join in and help us get this registry thing off the ground, I think it would be good for the Unlimited Rail gun class, as well as being a great place for information.
Thanks Rich

[Lawrence W.]

Rail gun ownership and participation really took off out here in the Southwest when we started offering more 5 shot competitions. From personal experience, there is nothing more fun than shooting your rail all weekend at 5 shot targets. Once you have the tune dialed in, it is just you and the wind! 12 of the 25 competitors at the Sniper King were from California and Arizona.

This is a picture of the firing line at a recent rail gun shoot at Visalia.

16371

[Lawrence W.]

Yes, it is Tom's. It was either Skip's or built by Skip for Tom.

[SWASHBUCKLER1]

When was Skip's Rail built? I seem to remember there were a couple of these being shot quite a few years ago but can't seem to remember who was shooting the other one. Very unique or Iconic design for sure.

[Tom Libby]

Yes, it is Tom's. It was either Skip's or built by Skip for Tom.

Lawrence / Francis

yes this is a Skip Otto rail:

Carolyn and I shot a CZ for years and I finally wanted a rail gun and I liked the set up that Skip had so when
Carolyn and I were at Kelbly's and I went to Skip and asked him to make me a copy of his rail for me. He even went up to Lou's bus and asked him if he thought I was serious. Lou said he asked you didn't he! So Skip made me a rail and it has been the best thing I have done for rail gun shooting. This rail gun has the 100 yard 10 shot record to date .097.

We were back again a few years later and I really wanted for Carolyn to have her own top, but I didn't have the B#% to ask Skip to do this so I sent Carolyn to ask if he would make a top for her, I knew he couldn't tell her know and I was right. Now with two tops, one bottom and an Elephant to move them from bench to bench I am set.

Those that know me and how I can be fussy on how I keep my stuff, questioned my choice as it is not the best looking that was not Skip's thing.

Just to let you know the secret inside the rail was (skip wouldn't tell me) :-) and a ton of flutes. I have had to have a new barrel or two chambered over the years I have had it and Mr. Bob Brackney was the one I chose to do the work for me. He indicated that it is a pain in the A-- to do and he said I'm not putting that many flutes on it.

Roy Damron also has a Skip Otto rail and all the ones Skip made Shoot. I think that there is around 5+- of his rails around.

[Boyd Allen]

Tom's Otto rail:
http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af340/fresburgflash/Allpicturesfromoldcomputer377-2.jpg
http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af340/fresburgflash/Allpicturesfromoldcomputer378-1.jpg

[SWASHBUCKLER1]

Thank you Tom for the story and information, we appreciate you sharing the story behind the rail with us, Very cool.
Thank you Boyd for the pictures, they are great!

This is just one of the reasons I think we need to start a Rail gun registry, if not to understand or get to know the history behind these masterful rigs, maybe it will help inspire someone to carry on this kind of tradition. I personally think more shooters will get involved in this wonderful class if we only unlock the door, we don't have to leave it open, just let them know the Unlimited Class is alive and well.

I really appreciate everyone for your input & comments and look forward to and welcome the discussions yet to come, but with stuff like this how can a true bench rest shooter resist.

Thanks Rich

[Lawrence W.]

How come the pictures you inserted are so much bigger than the one I inserted?

[SWASHBUCKLER1]

Lawrence I wanted to post a few pictures of my Rail to see what size they were so maybe I could help answer your question.
? Not sure but my pictures are smaller as well?

[SWASHBUCKLER1]

These pictures were uploaded with the pictures actual size?
Not sure Lawrence about getting the pictures any larger, but I'm sure someone will be able to help.
Thanks

[Boyd Allen]

Lawrence,
I have a free \Photobucket account, and I usually upload the full sized files (given that most were taken with a 5MP Canon) When I am in my album on that site, and I open an individual picture, I have a number of links that are available to me for that picture. The one that I used for these pictures is the IMG link. By simply clicking on it, it is automatically copied. At that point, I simply paste it into the forum's post composition frame. After it is posted, the link causes the image to appear in the post, but since its source is the Photobucket server, Benchrest Centrals file size limits do not limit its size. Here is a picture of Gary Ocock's rail. As I compose this post all I see is a couple of lines of text, that are the link that I copied and pasted. Once I click on the "submit reply" button, everyone sees the picture.

Added later: I forgot to mention that I use image editing software on Photobucket to crop and change the image size so that it is a good fit in the forum. When I do this I generally make a copy and keep the original in the album as well. When I first started using a free image hosting site, I experimented by dong test posts, that I deleted once they had served their purpose.
http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/af340/fresburgflash/Visalia10-18-09fiveshotunlim017.jpg

[SWASHBUCKLER1]

Very nice. The Pictures you posted are very good. Thanks for the information.

[Tom Libby]

Another thing about the Skip Otto/Carolyn Libby rail is that it is underslung. I wonder out loud if that isn't also a contributing factor in its accuracy.

My reason to get the Otto rail.

When we started this sport we started with what we called Cruzer’s, basically our Heavy rifle with a weight in the stock and a 1.250 barrel and they waded about 26 lbs. This was good for several years and then with everyone telling us we needed a rail I bought a Powell rail which was one of the rails to have at the time or a Hascuster a similar style.

These were a flat style top and fairly light in weight to move on and off the bench. The problem was if you had a sticky case when you lifted the bolt the top would tilt/rock up on you, this was a bigger problem for Carolyn if this happened and some of the problem was that the Russian brass was not around and now the USA brass imitation of the Russian was being used and it was very unstable each time you used it, you did not know how it would come out with the bolt.

Sold the rail and went back to the Cruzer’s for several more years until I wanted to get a rail again, That is when I really started to look at all the rail guns at this time and some of the more advanced of some and then I took a real good look at the Otto rail. It was under slung and heavy and having the previous issues I thought this is it and now you know the rest of the story :-)

Ps:
When you set up this type of rail on the bench while setting your flags and looking through the scope and don’t look through the bore of the barrel also you will most likely shoot your flags due to this type of rail. But it was a nice group. :o

[SWASHBUCKLER1]

Who is still building Rails today?
I know Jay Young is and I see Magnum Metal advertise here, but who else is making rails?

[Dusty Stevens]

Who is still building Rails today?
I know Jay Young is and I see Magnum Metal advertise here, but who else is making rails?

The class is so far and few between its not a popular item anymore sadly. Nobody wants to spend that much money on something theyll only use about once or twice a year at most.

[Joe McNeill]

Dusty,
We plan on bringing the unlimited class (rails) back to the AR state shoot next year, 2016. It will be the first half
of the 4 gun like it use to be. I know that Glenn and Jay Lynn asked about this year and Ray and I thought it would
be good to have back. I just hope that there is enough interest to justify it. Since I don't own a rail I just may shoot
my Hart #4 action cruiser behemoth and see what it will do!
Regards,

Joe McNeill
SW Arkansas

[Steelhead1]

If anyone is interested Truman Wilson has a Skip Otto Rail for sale, he had it at the SniperKing! I can,t remember who it belonged to, but he is selling it for the wife, who's husband passed away!

[SWASHBUCKLER1]

Please contact me with the contact # as I would be interested in the Skip Otto Rail. Thank you.
PM Sent to Steelhead1

[SWASHBUCKLER1]

Dusty,
We plan on bringing the unlimited class (rails) back to the AR state shoot next year, 2016. It will be the first half
of the 4 gun like it use to be. I know that Glenn and Jay Lynn asked about this year and Ray and I thought it would
be good to have back. I just hope that there is enough interest to justify it. Since I don't own a rail I just may shoot
my Hart #4 action cruiser behemoth and see what it will do!
Regards,

Joe McNeill
SW Arkansas

Joe that is great news, glad to see you bringing back the Unlimited and Rails next year, we will try to make it down and shoot with you all. Thanks for the update and hope you all have a great rest of the year.

Rich

Found contact info for Truman. Thank you

[Mike Bryant]

For whatever reason I've not had much luck when it comes to trying to save a barrel. After removing it and re-installing, it never seems to be the same as before removal. Could be in the actual torque of the barrel to the action? Could be the way the barrel block is reinstalled? Maybe something else I've overlooked? This isn't just with a rails but with sporters and heavies too. Once the barrel comes off and then back on, I haven't had constant success in repeat performance.
Dave B

Dave, I was talking to Mike Conry at the rail gun match at Seymour last weekend. He has a barrel that he's saving for the Nationals. The difference in the details is how he does it. He took the complete barreled action off his rail and saved it. Then used a different barrel and action for the Seymour match. However, he smoked everyone there anyway with his backup barreled action. That way certainly seems better than taking a barrel off an action and putting it back on. I've seen that happen the same way you stated.

[Mr.T]

Rail gun stuff is really hard to find on the net. I am attempting a build one from scratch over her in Europe and as i never seen a real railgun its a tough going and luckily friend Speedy gave me a bit of a head start with some ole drawings from his X wing railgun . But i am still looking for details regarding the V shaped guides and Derlin studs anyone willing to share some picts of these details would be very helpfull

[Chism G]

If I could build a Rail Gun,I would make it different from everybody else's. That's the beauty of the unlimited class. Create something that nobody else has seen before.





Glen

[Mr.T]

If I could build a Rail Gun,I would make it different from everybody else's. That's the beauty of the unlimited class. Create something that nobody else has seen before.

Glen
It will be different.
Even so they all use the same type of guides and 'bearings', on some parts there is just no need to reinvent the wheel.

[Wilbur]

I think this needs a separate site - done right! I was able to purchase "railguns.org" if that's acceptable???

I learned a long time ago that once you look, you better buy, as those folks seem to track what you're looking at.

[Mr.T]

[QUOTE=Wilbur;761552
I learned a long time ago that once you look, you better buy, as those folks seem to track what you're looking at.[/QUOTE]

Maybe its some sort off 'terminal' disease but I can't , i have to modify or build myself even tough it normally ends up costing so much time and effort i would be better off buying.

[Dusty Stevens]

A railgun is a passion and labor of love. A handmade railgun should cost $15k. A cnc one should cost $3k if you make 50-100 at a time. Id knock out 100 next week if i thought i could sell 50 but id bet theres not 10 thats a buyer right now.

[Mr.T]

Have no intention of building more than my own and altough most of it will be CNC machined it will still be an uniqe one-off.

[Tim Singleton]

Railguns.org
Sounds great Wilbur.
You must be a glutton for punishment. Just kidding we all appreciate your efforts we don't say it enough

[SWASHBUCKLER1]

Here's a few thoughts!
I know there is quite a bit of new interest in some regions, and several new Rail guns being bought this season. As far as selling them, if a new Rail that was unique, and winning came on scene it would not be hard to sell 50, but just making cookie cutters will be status quo.

Look at Skip Otto's rail, I would think if they were still being built today the waiting & order list would be long. Then we have Tom's @ ( Bat ) latest design my guess is it would sell like hot cakes if readily available. Yes the cost is high, but given the circumstances a quality Rail will last you a lifetime and not that big of investment if you amortize the cost over a lifetime.

I applaud Wilbur for taking the initiative and personally think it will help promote the unlimited class. Thanks Wilbur, we do appreciate it.

Instead of accepting the current pros and cons, there are things that could help make the class a better, bigger and a more competitive class, it just takes a little work. Ultimately if more new shooters were subjected to the class I believe it would grow, new shooters are like sponges for information and I think a new web site can only help supply them with that information. We could go on and on about what we believe but doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result, well you know what that will get us.

Wilbur thank you again, and I'm personally happy you think it's viable enough to think about the new web site.

Rich Henderson

[Chism G]

Here's a few thoughts!
I know there is quite a bit of new interest in some regions, and several new Rail guns being bought this season. As far as selling them, if a new Rail that was unique, and winning came on scene it would not be hard to sell 50, but just making cookie cutters will be status quo.

Look at Skip Otto's rail, I would think if they were still being built today the waiting & order list would be long. Then we have Tom's @ ( Bat ) latest design my guess is it would sell like hot cakes if readily available. Yes the cost is high, but given the circumstances a quality Rail will last you a lifetime and not that big of investment if you amortize the cost over a lifetime.

I applaud Wilbur for taking the initiative and personally think it will help promote the unlimited class. Thanks Wilbur, we do appreciate it.

Instead of accepting the current pros and cons, there are things that could help make the class a better, bigger and a more competitive class, it just takes a little work. Ultimately if more new shooters were subjected to the class I believe it would grow, new shooters are like sponges for information and I think a new web site can only help supply them with that information. We could go on and on about what we believe but doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result, well you know what that will get us.

Wilbur thank you again, and I'm personally happy you think it's viable enough to think about the new web site.

Rich Henderson




Excellent Post. When you run out of Rail Gun design ideas you run out of progress. This Sport has some of the Brightest minds with imaginations to match. I know a guy who built his Rail Gun from scratch,in his garage. The "Unlimited Class" means just that. "Unlimited". I like the idea of a new web site for the unlimited Class.


Glenn

[Wilbur]

Give me a little bit to go on as to what you want to see on the site.

[Tim Singleton]

Give me a little bit to go on as to what you want to see on the site.

I don't know where to start. But here goes. As a beginner who knows nothing of rails and wouldn't want to buy way out of date technology

Basic design of or a history of rails?

Differences in action mounting methods. Barrel block or action bolted directly which came first ?
If one favored over the other why?
Different styles of tops and bottoms
How much do they vary in total weight?
Sighter cam mechanism. Is it something new? Are there different styles?


Southeast region
Experience with bag gun only
Never shot UL

[Tom Libby]

Give me a little bit to go on as to what you want to see on the site.

Suggestion:

1) Those that respond to site with info, if they could use their real name so we know if they are an active shooter.

2) If possible the region they shoot in.

3) State first who made their rail, themselves or a name of the maker. If possible post a picture so other shooters can understand what the are relating too.

4) Maybe how many UL matches they shoot in their region or travel to shoot the UL

Tom

[Chism G]

I like the excellent ideas provided by Tim And Tom.

I would add. Start with a short history of the rail gun.(Tim's suggestion) Copy and paste it from an old source if necessary.

A photo gallery would be nice. I bet you could borrow some photos from Turk Takano. I have a few that I took,but I dont know who all the builders are. That's important,as previously mentioned.

Include a Bio of some of the top Rail Gun shooters in the Sport. That,s easy because the same people are some of the top Bag gun shooters in the Country.

If I knew how to build a Rail Gun,I would build it so that I could interchange a HV or LV contour barrel for five shot matches.Switching from a 1.450. It may even work for 10 shot matches in cool climates. I don't know about this Texas Heat. An Adjustable barrel Clamp maybe?

If possible,Try to entice some of the top shooters to personally join the discussion. Ghost writers hearsay is unacceptable. It ends up like like those Rim Fire discussion awhile back.


Glenn

[SWASHBUCKLER1]

OK Guys and gals I'll play along since I started this post so here goes.

I think the registry should be directed toward Rail Guns first and foremost. History, data, information, and discussion, etc.
I agree everyone should use their real name when they register or become a member, but it should require that from the get go, the reason I say this is I would change my Alias now if the BRC Forum allowed me to due to request from some here and I feel it would be a good idea knowing who you are communicating with, BUT Let me say this! If we continue to ask for real names then guess what someone will ask for your credit score, references, etc, Right it should be public knowledge? Right! Where do you draw the line.

OK. My name is Rich Henderson Alias SWASHBUCKLER1 here on BRC, MY CREDIT SCORE IS 78X, ( how I know this is I'm the Finance / Business Manager for a very successful Auto Dealership and I check my credit score weekly ) I can buy what ever I want when I want, but it is irrelevant to these boards and discussions. So where do we draw the line.

I think the wise idea is to start off with a with simple plan, based on what the objective is: Unlimited Rail Gun information and discussion!

If Wilbur is willing to do this I would be willing to make a small donation of $20.00 to help with the effort to help with the cost of running such a site. This brings me to my next thought! Most registries have a membership of a small $ amount, lets say a years membership would be $15.00 a year. This would help fund the project and help keep things in order.
My first idea was a totally free site, but you could allow access to everyone, but make it a requirement to become a member before posting was accepted? This should satisfy some of you hard core guys here on BRC.

* Now about the content, I think it would be great to have a site, gathering place, or registry for everyone who is interested in the Unlimited Class to have access to such knowledge. I know there is a demand for such a site, information, knowledge and discussion and I personally think it would help grow the class & sport for anyone interested in the Unlimited Rail Gun Class.

This post was not meant to brag, boast or intimidate, just a reminder of what could happen if you elect to single out people as to reveal their real names unless stated from the very beginning. From now on while I'm here on BRC I will try to remember to include my real name as to not offend anyone.
Bench Rest shooters are some of the finest people I've ever met, and very knowledgeable, my only wish is they would welcome every new shooter and remeber at some point and time they were a new shooter as well.

Lets hear your thoughts and help Wilbur get this thing off the ground if there is enough interest.

Thank you

Rich Henderson

[gfpd]

OK Guys and gals I'll play along since I started this post so here goes.

I think the registry should be directed toward Rail Guns first and foremost. History, data, information, and discussion, etc.
I agree everyone should use their real name when they register or become a member, but it should require that from the get go, the reason I say this is I would change my Alias now if the BRC Forum allowed me to due to request from some here and I feel it would be a good idea knowing who you are communicating with, BUT Let me say this! If we continue to ask for real names then guess what someone will ask for your credit score, references, etc, Right it should be public knowledge? Right! Where do you draw the line.

OK. My name is Rich Henderson Alias SWASHBUCKLER1 here on BRC, MY CREDIT SCORE IS 78X, ( how I know this is I'm the Finance / Business Manager for a very successful Auto Dealership and I check my credit score weekly ) I can buy what ever I want when I want, but it is irrelevant to these boards and discussions. So where do we draw the line.

I think the wise idea is to start off with a with simple plan, based on what the objective is: Unlimited Rail Gun information and discussion!

If Wilbur is willing to do this I would be willing to make a small donation of $20.00 to help with the effort to help with the cost of running such a site. This brings me to my next thought! Most registries have a membership of a small $ amount, lets say a years membership would be $15.00 a year. This would help fund the project and help keep things in order.
My first idea was a totally free site, but you could allow access to everyone, but make it a requirement to become a member before posting was accepted? This should satisfy some of you hard core guys here on BRC.

* Now about the content, I think it would be great to have a site, gathering place, or registry for everyone who is interested in the Unlimited Class to have access to such knowledge. I know there is a demand for such a site, information, knowledge and discussion and I personally think it would help grow the class & sport for anyone interested in the Unlimited Rail Gun Class.

This post was not meant to brag, boast or intimidate, just a reminder of what could happen if you elect to single out people as to reveal their real names unless stated from the very beginning. From now on while I'm here on BRC I will try to remember to include my real name as to not offend anyone.
Bench Rest shooters are some of the finest people I've ever met, and very knowledgeable, my only wish is they would welcome every new shooter and remeber at some point and time they were a new shooter as well.

Lets hear your thoughts and help Wilbur get this thing off the ground if there is enough interest.

Thank you

Rich Henderson

Rich, I believe you missed the part of being an active shooter. I see you are in the eastern region have you shot any matches? I have never met you at a match.

[SWASHBUCKLER1]

OK You guys are something else.
Yes I have shot in several matches, just getting back into benchrest from a 10 year layoff, been away racing with my kids, I guess I'm gonna have to start asking for credit scores? Just to see if your comments are worth replying to, this is the kind of stuff your presenting! This is crazy.
I did not miss the point at all, you guys are. Who the heck cares, it's this kind of mentality that keeps chasing people away from this sport, you are gonna have to lighten up and welcome new comers or the sport will never grow.
gfpd by the way have you met Everyone at a match, this is rediculous! Who do you think you are? And since we are on the subject, quit hiding behind YOUR Alias, and give us your name.

[SWASHBUCKLER1]

Read this carefully!
The mentality you are displaying and the sarcasm of your comments are a slippery slope, example!
1. Are you an active shooter? Your reply hehe! I didn't meet you at a match.
Mine Who cares, If they are interested in bench rest that's why they are here and we should welcome them as much as anyone else.
Next possible scenario
2. Have you won any matches? Won any HOF Points, in the HOF. Oh do you have a credit score over 730, because if you don't your not worthy of posting here.?

Are you kidding me!

Is this the attitude we want to display toward fellow bench rest shooters and new comers.
Not me and I think this kind of stuff is what is ruining the sport. I ask you to change your tone and be a better example of what bench rest is all about and welcome all new comers, we need as many new shooters as we can get.

[r44astro]

Powell, owned one year. Shot NBRSA last year, did not preform very well, still learning. Came with barrel, do not know anything about it, need new barrel. Will shoot at St. Loius as is.
Bill Greene aka Trout

[Tim Singleton]

Powell, owned one year. Shot NBRSA last year, did not preform very well, still learning. Came with barrel, do not know anything about it, need new barrel. Will shoot at St. Loius as is.
Bill Greene aka Trout

Bill, you going to shoot it at UNAKA? I'd like to check it out.
I believe there is a Powell platform in the classifieds that seems like a good buy
It's going to be a 5 shot UL.
I guess I'll just shoot my bag gun again this year

[r44astro]

Will not make Unaka. Will shoot Riverbend.
You going to St. Louis?
Bill

[Tim Singleton]

Will not make Unaka. Will shoot Riverbend.
You going to St. Louis?
Bill
UNAKA will be the lat one for me this year. Back surgery again first of Sep.

[Boyd Allen]

Generally, those that participate in sports are too busy to write stories and take pictures of the sports that they participate in. That is why sports writers and photographers exist.

If you only allow input from those who have and regularly compete with a rail gun, I predict that the flow of words and pictures (for a registry) will never be much more than a trickle. Don't get me wrong. I would love to be proven wrong about this.

In the new age of the internet, it seems that there is so much information to be had for free, that website owners are lothe to spend anything for articles. Back in the day when Precision Shooting was still in business, one could at least defray some of ones costs by being paid a small amount for articles that were published. Since it folded, that has gone away.

IMO taking the effort to start a new project should start with a realistic appraisal of the likelihood of its success. Personally, based on what I have seen in the past, I don't think this will happen, but as I said, I would really like to be proven wrong on this.

[Dusty Stevens]

I have an RFD rail with a bat top port. Last match i shot it in was the 100yd se regional 2014 which i won the UL class in that one. The time before that was fall 2009 rachels glen which i won the UL class and the 4gun. The time before that was the spring rachels glen 2009 which i won the UL class in as well. I love shooting my rail gun and wish i could shoot it more. Seems like the only matches i can get away for do not have it. I hope to shoot in the nbrsa nats in st louis coming up. If i do come visit me and my railgun baby

[jlcprec]

Rail guns are my favorites. I've made several and still have 2. It seems over the years, the amount of matches to shoot the big guns has decreased. When talking to match directors, the consensus seems to be that attendance goes down when the rails come out, even when the class is separate from the bag guns. I went to Kansas City 2 weeks ago for the UL match. The next Sunday, Oakhills also had one. It doesn't get much better than that for me! I plan on shooting the Nat's at St. Louis, if it works out. I would try and add what I could to a Rail Gun site.

Jim Carstensen
JLC Precision

[Chism G]

IMO taking the effort to start a new project should start with a realistic appraisal of the likelihood of its success. Personally, based on what I have seen in the past, I don't think this will happen, but as I said, I would really like to be proven wrong on this.



What would encompass a realistic appraisal of the likelihood of the success of a Website dedicated to the unlimited Class? The Site owner is asking for ideas about website content ,because some of us would like to see such a website.
A quite accommodating gesture, in my opinion. Some would call it an exploration of possibility. Nothing ventured,nothing gained.

As a Rail Gun owner,I’ve got a few questions/observations I’d like to post on the “Rail Gun” Website.


Glenn

[Jerry W]

Maybe a good first step would be a dedicated "Unlimited" forum right here at BRC. There could be a sticky thread, always at the top, for folks to tell about their setup.

It would be great if it included cruiser rifles, too, since that's where it all started.

I don't have an unlimited gun, but I'm really fascinated by them. So maybe some day.

Jerry Wick

[Chism G]

Seymour,Tx is like an archaeological dig site,(Hypothetically speaking)when it comes to Rail Gun designs. Texas would be a good place to start a Rail Gun research project.

There may be other locations/Regions in the US that are good dig sites for Rail Gun,memorabilia,Design concepts,etc. I have personally witnessed what we have here in Texas.

I say, explore the possibility of putting up the site. It would be interesting just to see what shows up.



Glenn

[Lawrence W.]

This is a link to a photo gallery of a lot of the SW rail guns at the firing line in Visalia:

http://www.angelesbr.com/gallery.html

Enjoy!

[Tim Singleton]

This is a link to a photo gallery of a lot of the SW rail guns at the firing line in Visalia:

http://www.angelesbr.com/gallery.html

Enjoy!
Great pix. Several top load ports in there and a lot of weaver scopes

[Dusty Stevens]

Scopes arent near as important on a railgun as they are on a lv gun. No recoil and your gun does all the repeating

[Chism G]

Here are a few Designs from Down here in Texas. These are a perfect example of "Unlimited", A freedom of expression like in no other BR Class. I don't know who all the builders are,but you can get an idea of some of the design concepts. When all rail gun designs evolve to the point of "Look A-Likes" its time to rethink the Class title,"Unlimited". My opinion of course.

Mike Bryant,Larry Baggett, John Horn(Owner)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a182/chismpi/001_zps5fygx93l.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/user/chismpi/media/001_zps5fygx93l.jpg.html)

Jerry Hensler(Owner/Designer
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a182/chismpi/003_zpsraikbtwz.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/user/chismpi/media/003_zpsraikbtwz.jpg.html)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a182/chismpi/006_zpspk2cw53f.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/user/chismpi/media/006_zpspk2cw53f.jpg.html)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a182/chismpi/005_zpsa5j6lkbs.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/user/chismpi/media/005_zpsa5j6lkbs.jpg.html)


Dont remember the owner
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a182/chismpi/013_zpspcdh5afp.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/user/chismpi/media/013_zpspcdh5afp.jpg.html)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a182/chismpi/024_zpsodfoy8az.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/user/chismpi/media/024_zpsodfoy8az.jpg.html)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a182/chismpi/057_zpshfthzwba.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/user/chismpi/media/057_zpshfthzwba.jpg.html)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a182/chismpi/061_zpset6nekx8.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/user/chismpi/media/061_zpset6nekx8.jpg.html)



http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a182/chismpi/062_zpskyg7lqze.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/user/chismpi/media/062_zpskyg7lqze.jpg.html)

[Boyd Allen]

Glenn,
IMO, the success of such a venture would depend entirely on having a large enough number of people that would put a sustained effort into the necessary writing and photography. I have enjoyed the pictures on this thread, have taken and posted a few myself in the past, but without a sustained effort what will happen will be the production of an web album, rather than an active site. This is not to say that an album would not be a great thing, it would, but to make a web site sufficiently interesting to have a continuing draw, I think that more would be required. This is just one idea, but if there were pictures of the details of rails shown with the top off of the base, shot from various angles, and discussion of how they were built, and different approaches to the various design elements, I think that a continuing discussion would be more likely. Personally, I would love to see this. In the past, several editors have had some trouble getting the material that they wanted to publish about matches, that is why I said what I did about being realistic. It was based on past performance. IMO changing this is at the core of promoting benchrest. If there was more out there on the internet, I think that it would tend to draw more people into the sport. The trick is to produce material that non benchrest sites find suitable to publish, and/or point to with links and commentary. IMO this is the key.

Boyd

[Chism G]

Glenn,
IMO, the success of such a venture would depend entirely on having a large enough number of people that would put a sustained effort into the necessary writing and photography. I have enjoyed the pictures on this thread, have taken and posted a few myself in the past, but without a sustained effort what will happen will be the production of an web album, rather than an active site. This is not to say that an album would not be a great thing, it would, but to make a web site sufficiently interesting to have a continuing draw, I think that more would be required. This is just one idea, but if there were pictures of the details of rails shown with the top off of the base, shot from various angles, and discussion of how they were built, and different approaches to the various design elements, I think that a continuing discussion would be more likely. Personally, I would love to see this. In the past, several editors have had some trouble getting the material that they wanted to publish about matches, that is why I said what I did about being realistic. It was based on past performance. IMO changing this is at the core of promoting benchrest. If there was more out there on the internet, I think that it would tend to draw more people into the sport. The trick is to produce material that non benchrest sites find suitable to publish, and/or point to with links and commentary. IMO this is the key.

Boyd


Again…… Unless I misunderstood. Wilbur asked for ideas not predictions.

The “Success “of a Web Site is a relative term. Its not always based on numbers(Forum Participation)

Some would call the “Humor section” a success ,if success was based on numbers of Posts.

BR.Com would be the perfect place for a dedicated unlimited section,and the most direct approach to attracting new Shooters. I’m not a crystal ball type person. I am a Rail Gun Enthusiast. It took a while, but my friends here in the Gulf Coast region convinced me that I was missing out on a whole lot of fun if I didn’t buy one. Boy, were they correct. I’m working with my second Rail Gun now,and having a ball.

Thanks to my buddies here in the GCR.

We have a good number of Rail Gun enthusiasts here in Texas. I suspect this is the case throughout the Country. If the Web Site doesn’t work to expected satisfaction, how much trouble would it be to thrash it.
PS...Do you own a Rail Gun?


“Nothing ventured,Nothing gained”

Glenn

[Boyd Allen]

My impression is that two distinctly different things are being discussed, a web site, and a forum on this site. I would be in favor of either or both. My comments were more to the former, rather than the latter, which would probably be more realistic. No, I do not have a rail gun, but I have published a number of pictures, so that others may become interested and learn about them, and I have also offered information about different design details for the same reason.

Boyd

[SWASHBUCKLER1]

Lawrence W & Chism G
Thank you for the great post, link & pictures, this is the kind of stuff I feel goes unnoticed unless expressed in such a forum.
I personally think there is more than enough interest to make such a venture successful. I know Texas, Colorado, and the North West are hot beds for Unlimited Rail guns, and I think the rest of the country would follow suit if given the opportunity. I again want to thank Wilbur for even considering this.

Think about it like this, it's shooting season and look at the interest we have stirred up right now, wait till winter when everyone has cabin fever and looking for something to do?

I personally would do what ever I'm able, to help promote support and see it grow. I've talked to quite a few Rail gun shooters from Colorado and man they have a bunch, and it's very good to see the competition level. I just sold my RFD Rail to a shooter out west and that part of the country is getting stacked as far as the level of shooters and rails ( my opinion ). I know those guys shoot in Tx, Az as well.

I guess I'll let the cat out of the bag while I'm posting. I just bought a Skip Otto Rail, and I can't wait to get it back here and set up. I'm like a kid in the candy store. LOL! I hope to have pictures and will try to keep the new site updated with our progress. There is a lot of history behind this particular rail and I look forward to sharing it with other like minded shooters.

Thank you again, I've appreciated all your posts that have supported the idea.

Rich Henderson

[Chism G]

No, I do not have a rail gun, but I have published a number of pictures, so that others may become interested and learn about them, and I have also offered information about different design details for the same reason.

Boyd


Feel free to offer information about the different designs in the photos. I would like to know myself and I suspect that others would too.
I own a Rail Gun but I dont have a clue. Your knowledge of Rail Gun Designs could possibly steer somebody towards buying one of these toys.




Glenn

[Boyd Allen]

I really liked the pictures. Could you get some of just the bases, shot from a couple of different angles? I think that they would be very helpful as far as discussions are concerned. One thing that I have seen that I have written about is the practice of using a barrel block that has been bored to a cylinder inside, used in conjunction with some sort of plastic sleeve around the barrel, and very light clamping force. I think that this is a significant development that others might want to take note of.

[Chism G]

I really liked the pictures. Could you get some of just the bases, shot from a couple of different angles? I think that they would be very helpful as far as discussions are concerned. One thing that I have seen that I have written about is the practice of using a barrel block that has been bored to a cylinder inside, used in conjunction with some sort of plastic sleeve around the barrel, and very light clamping force. I think that this is a significant development that others might want to take note of.


No chance of getting different angles. I borrowed the photos from Turk Takano.

"One thing that I have seen that I have written about is the practice of using a barrel block that has been bored to a cylinder inside, used in conjunction with some sort of plastic sleeve around the barrel, and very light clamping force. I think that this is a significant development that others might want to take note "


What makes this a significant development compared to any other design?



Glenn

[Jay Young]

16548165451654616547
I really liked the pictures. Could you get some of just the bases, shot from a couple of different angles? I think that they would be very helpful as far as discussions are concerned. One thing that I have seen that I have written about is the practice of using a barrel block that has been bored to a cylinder inside, used in conjunction with some sort of plastic sleeve around the barrel, and very light clamping force. I think that this is a significant development that others might want to take note of.

Here is a few, The black one is Left Handed...

[afrench]

adding content from a thread i started a while back.

Railgun/unlimited picture thread (http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?91480-Railgun-unlimited-picture-thread&highlight=)

[SWASHBUCKLER1]

Glen, my opinion on the oval barrel block clamp is it's more consistent pressure or the clamping pressure is distributed equally over a greater surface. ? Larger clamping / bearing surface, just my thoughts, but you are right, it's made a big difference.

On the pictures they are great, please thank Turk for me. I love looking at all these great photo's of Rail guns, it kinda gets your mind flowing and thinking about why they did what they did. You are right, the Unlimited Railgun is the sky is the limit. A if you can think it try it mentality, which I love and think is very healthy for advancing the class. I've been told by several shooters that have been involved with rails for some time, that the earliest Rails were built out of wood, or on wood rail tracks, thus giving them the name rail gun. I used to have an old photo of Ferris or Fred standing next to an early Rail with wood tracks / frame? I wish I could find it again, I would be happy to post if but seem to have misplaced it, I'll keep looking, it was a real cool photo.

Thanks again for sharing the photos and your thoughts, ideas on such an amazing Class of Bench Rest Rifle.
I've enjoyed the conversations and who knows maybe this thing will come together better than anyone expected.

Rich Henderson

[SWASHBUCKLER1]

Awesome!
Thank you Jay & afrench

Much appreciated and glad your posting on the subject.

Rich Henderson

[Chism G]

The Rail Gun pictured below was designed and built by John Jones back in the 1980's.

John took this Rail Gun to the NBRSA Nationals,Held in South Carolina,in 1985-1986. He won the UL Grand. This Rail was a hernia making hunk of metal. I saw it at a match at Tomball,Tx. Photo courtesy of Turk Takano.
http://www.benchshot.com/


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a182/chismpi/a_zpsxnyx7nzr.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/user/chismpi/media/a_zpsxnyx7nzr.jpg.html)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a182/chismpi/b-2_zps5rxjxfyg.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/user/chismpi/media/b-2_zps5rxjxfyg.jpg.html)


Glenn

[Boyd Allen]

Ocock has had a pretty hot hand with his rail in the last few years, and that is the type of block that he uses. I am not saying that it is the best, just that based on his results, it seems to have a lot to recommend it.

[Dusty Stevens]

Mine has a delrin sleeve and so do a lot of them you see at matches

[Mr.T]

16548165451654616547

Here is a few, The black one is Left Handed...

Great picts. One qustion why are the guides and bearings Derlin on steel friction bearing not some more free running rolling ball or similar steel bearings . Does it have something to do with vibration dampening?

[Lawrence W.]

Great picts. One qustion why are the guides and bearings Derlin on steel friction bearing not some more free running rolling ball or similar steel bearings . Does it have something to do with vibration dampening?

We are looking for a return to absolute zero and a free rolling ball bearing that can build up a layer of lubricant on both sides would probably be counterproductive to the return to absolute zero.

[Mr.T]

Ok , i taugth it was about vibrations and i would think that even unlubricated thrust ball bearing would roll much freely than a lubricated derlin friction bearing.

My tool maker friend that helps me with my rail gun build showed me bunch of bearings they use and compared to derlin ther are realy free spining plus last thousands upon thousands of cycles in tooling presses.

Rail guns are probably not shot that much but does Derlin 'nipple' wear much in use.

[Wilbur]

I had a chance to buy that fancy rail Glenn pictured at the SuperShoot once upon a time...could have been another but I don't think so. It's a pretty fancy rig!

[Wilbur]

Mr. T - there's no problem with the delrin. Using some type of bearing just costs more and doesn't do any better.

Again - there is no problem with delrin slides on a rail gun.

To answer your question concerning wear, it doesn't matter. Ten shots plus sighters won't make much difference. :)

[Mr.T]

Mr. T - there's no problem with the delrin. Using some type of bearing just costs more and doesn't do any better.

Again - there is no problem with delrin slides on a rail gun.

To answer your question concerning wear, it doesn't matter. Ten shots plus sighters won't make much difference. :)

Thanks for the clarification , its my first rail build and considering that i am in Europe , there are very few rails around here so i have no posibility of seeing one live that is why all the stupid questions.

[Chism G]

Thanks for the clarification , its my first rail build and considering that i am in Europe , there are very few rails around here so i have no posibility of seeing one live that is why all the stupid questions.



Mr T,.... The only stupid question is the one that is not asked. Your response should expel any doubts about the potential success of a forum Dedicated to Rail Guns.

"Lets see the hands of those who don't think a Rail Gun Forum would be a good idea"





Glenn

[redlabel]

I think a rail gun forum would be a great idea as I'm thinking about building one.
Thanks, Wes

[Travelor]

New to the sport and learning with each day I read this forum.

I think the most successful way to start a discussion dedicated to Rail Guns would be a sub forum here for two reasons. 1. it is an established and well visited site and might increase the shooters interested in these guns; 2. it would cost nothing to start and see what the interest in forum posts would be.

Just my thinking......................

[Az_Speed]

I'm also new to the sport and having a rail built. I would love to have a forum for the "Rails".

Steve

[Wilbur]

OK - New forum it is:

Railguns !

[Jerry H]

Since you are going to design and build your own rail, you may be interested in this little video. I quit the CF BR game several years ago, but I did enjoy the unlimited class the best.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rtezI1l3lU

[afrench]

very interesting, Jerry.

[HuskerP7M8]

Very Cool Jerry!
Thanks for sharing it.

Landy

[Chism G]

A perfect example of what the "Unlimited Class" is about. Jerry is a guy who is not afraid to think outside the box. Hensler Electronic Wind indicators, Hensler Powder measure inserts. just a couple that comes to mind. I'm sure there are more.

Very well done video. How important is The automatic return to battery control(Spring) thingy. I've seen some Rail Gun shooters use a bungy cord. Same idea/function?



Glenn

[Jerry H]

Well some of us older people forget things like returning the gun to battery. The return spring leaves one less thing to forget. Bad enough trying to count ten empty cases.:o

[Mr.T]

Since you are going to design and build your own rail, you may be interested in this little video. I quit the CF BR game several years ago, but I did enjoy the unlimited class the best.


Great video .
Thanks

[Karl Hunstiger]

great video & nice rail - thanks

[Wilbur]

Some have a return spring and some have a "spring sort of thing" that prevents the rail top from hitting the back stop. If you have your rail pounded into the bench, it's seldom a solid fit in the holes you make. One time, in my history of rail gun shooting, did I encounter a bench top that held the rail solidly in both directions. Anyway, you pound the rail points into the bench, and then bump the rail forward, as you look at the target through the scope, until it quits moving...completely. You will have to pick up the base and blow the dust out of the holes you made very often so just blow them out as a standard. OK, you're set up to shoot but if the rail ever hits the back stop you've got to re-set it, or re-aim it every shot.

Thus, the spring cushion thing (or bunjee cord) you see on many rail guns. Remember this if you don't have a rail gun - rail guns don't shoot better than bag guns, they just shoot faster. Given two guns, a rail and a bag gun, that have the same accuracy level, the rail will win over time purely because of the speed.

[Chism G]

Some have a return spring and some have a "spring sort of thing" that prevents the rail top from hitting the back stop. If you have your rail pounded into the bench, it's seldom a solid fit in the holes you make. One time, in my history of rail gun shooting, did I encounter a bench top that held the rail solidly in both directions. Anyway, you pound the rail points into the bench, and then bump the rail forward, as you look at the target through the scope, until it quits moving...completely. You will have to pick up the base and blow the dust out of the holes you made very often so just blow them out as a standard. OK, you're set up to shoot but if the rail ever hits the back stop you've got to re-set it, or re-aim it every shot.

Thus, the spring cushion thing (or bunjee cord) you see on many rail guns. Remember this if you don't have a rail gun - rail guns don't shoot better than bag guns, they just shoot faster. Given two guns, a rail and a bag gun, that have the same accuracy level, the rail will win over time purely because of the speed.


Hey Wilbur...Have you found that Super Feet Improves the Stability when shooting a rail?. I was told to use my thumb to control the recoil. Most times it's worked,but I do occasionally get excited and forget I got a thumb. The top hits the back stop and unsettles the POA

Requiring POA readjustment. Some times I have a problem remembering precisely where my point of aim was. Come's with age. (CRS)

I have found that Super Feet don't work well on some bench top surfaces.


Glenn

[Dusty Stevens]

Superfeet suck for shooters but are a dream come true for bench owners only. Lead shot bags and clamps work well but nothing will save you if you hit a stop

[Lynn Gibson]

Acquired this Bud Welshrig a couple years ago but work travel has prevented me from shooting it much. When I get the chance, it is a hoot!

They have their idiosynchrosies or at least mine does. After a lot of head scratching over why I would sometimes get random unexplained shots just out of the group I discovered after searching the forums that touching anything besides the trigger is not recommended. After backtracking my bench mechanics next trip to range,I determined I had been lightly touching the back of the trigger guard with my thumb, apparently with not the same amount of pressure each shot. Got thumb out of the way and problem solved.

Another great reason for the Railgun Forum, is there are lots of little nuggets posted by experiences people have encountered which can and do provide insights to issue solving.

1701317014170151701617017

Lynn Gibson

[Wilbur]

I've never used Super Feet so I can't answer. I would say that holes left in the bench by rail guns don't matter much but I don't own any benches either. I will say that benches will stay smooth for a long time if nobody uses them to shoot.