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27-T
07-21-2015, 03:58 PM
Is there a reason why more people are not using Norma 6 PPC brass? I notice in the shoots results it seems like everyone is using Lapua .220 Russian fire formed for 6 PPC. If there is a good reason for this, please share it with me.

Thanks,

Jim

Wilbur
07-21-2015, 05:19 PM
Lapua lasts longer and just seems to be better brass. There is nothing wrong with the Norma cases if that's what you choose.

This, however, is an old thought - I haven't fired a shot in years.

CMaier
07-21-2015, 06:45 PM
reamer should match the brass..often common reamers match lapua brass not norma.
just what i have been told


Lapua lasts longer and just seems to be better brass. There is nothing wrong with the Norma cases if that's what you choose.

This, however, is an old thought - I haven't fired a shot in years.

Dusty Stevens
07-21-2015, 07:43 PM
Norma brass wont make it thru a match if you load hard like a ppc likes

Wilbur
07-21-2015, 08:10 PM
reamer should match the brass..often common reamers match lapua brass not norma.
just what i have been told

Let's talk about that for a minute. Does it make any difference what reamer is used?

Charlie/KY
07-21-2015, 08:14 PM
Norma brass wont make it thru a match if you load hard like a ppc likes

Like Dusty said, you won't make it thru a match because the primer pocket's will enlarge when loaded hard.:(

afrench
07-21-2015, 08:29 PM
if i remember correctly, the new unturned Norma brass with a bullet seated measured something like .265.

CMaier
07-21-2015, 09:50 PM
You got me in an area i have only listened to.
What i remember is brass bass dia, is smaller so in
an lapua base chamber, the brass has room to expand
and so goes the pocket.
When used in a smaller chamber should work fine,
but most say why bother.
Get one of the gunsmiths to chime in.

hepburn45110
07-21-2015, 09:53 PM
Like Dusty said, you won't make it thru a match because the primer pocket's will enlarge when loaded hard.:(

I've not found this to be true. I have a set of brass (25pcs) that has been used in four aggs. I'm not bashful. I run them hot. Primer pockets are still tight. Neck tension is consistent .

vargetman
07-21-2015, 10:38 PM
I,m with Hepburn. I shoot Norma 6ppc brass and have shot some over 20 times with no problems. I seldom shoot more than 30 grains of 133. More like 28.5 to 29.5. The internal capacity of Lapua and Norma are really close. I have annealed the Norma after 20 or so firings and continue to shoot it. Just my observation.
Maybe in the past Norma was not as good. Not sure about that. I do believe that if you hot rod any brass it won,t last.

Dusty Stevens
07-21-2015, 11:04 PM
You got me in an area i have only listened to.
What i remember is brass bass dia, is smaller so in
an lapua base chamber, the brass has room to expand
and so goes the pocket.
When used in a smaller chamber should work fine,
but most say why bother.
Get one of the gunsmiths to chime in.

The 6.5x284 is what youre thinking of

sdean
07-22-2015, 01:07 AM
I would think first time you fired that brass it came out matching the reamer. If your sizing die matches that chamber then thats it. I'm curious about the primer pocket.

Dusty Stevens
07-22-2015, 04:10 AM
No need for a priming tool but you do have to keep them bullet down in your cartridge box to make it to the line.

CMaier
07-22-2015, 11:35 AM
Exactly.
The primer pocket grows as the base grows.
Not to hard to figure out.


I would think first time you fired that brass it came out matching the reamer. If your sizing die matches that chamber then thats it. I'm curious about the primer pocket.

GPat
07-22-2015, 12:04 PM
A little history might be in order. The brass that was really soft and never lasted from Norma was their old stuff. That was regardless of cartridge. I personally used some of it in a wildcat 6mm based on the 22-250 and in a 22PPC as well as a 6PPC. That old stuff was BUTTERY soft and the primer pockets were toast after only a couple of firings.

If the discussion is about the most recent production of Norma 6PPC brass, I used it a couple of years ago as I did not have the time to fireform that particular season. I found it to be very consistent and long lasting. I didn't shoot as hot at that time, but the primer pockets never loosened after 12+ firings with what I'd consider middle of the road loads of 28.8-29.8gr of N133.

I cannot speak to the other cartridges Norma makes and whether they are still very soft or not. My conclusion is that for the 6mm PPC it works well enough to fill in when Lapua is not available or when time is limited for forming.

jackie schmidt
07-22-2015, 01:52 PM
I don't use it because it is too small for my .269 neck chambers.

Steelhead1
07-23-2015, 11:55 AM
About 4 months ago I was looking to try some Norma brass in a barrel that I had just rechambered with a .268 neck ppc, measured neck thickness and figured I did not have to turn the necks. loaded 25 pieces of Norma brass with light load of 8208 XBR and headed off to the range! When I finished firing the brass I notice that out of the 25 cases 14 of them had crackes just about .250" up from the base, and the primers show excessive pressure signs. I still have another 25 rounds of it but I won't be using it again. I am also not ruling out that I could have made an error in not turning the necks or using too much powder etc.

CMaier
07-23-2015, 03:00 PM
Again, not a neck issue.
A chamber base dia issue.


About 4 months ago I was looking to try some Norma brass in a barrel that I had just rechambered with a .268 neck ppc, measured neck thickness and figured I did not have to turn the necks. loaded 25 pieces of Norma brass with light load of 8208 XBR and headed off to the range! When I finished firing the brass I notice that out of the 25 cases 14 of them had crackes just about .250" up from the base, and the primers show excessive pressure signs. I still have another 25 rounds of it but I won't be using it again. I am also not ruling out that I could have made an error in not turning the necks or using too much powder etc.

Steelhead1
07-24-2015, 12:21 AM
Is it possible that my brass was 6ppc USA? Does Norma make both because I thought that 6ppc brass and 6ppc/usa were different dimesions? I guess I will have to make some new Lapua brass for this barrel and see how that works out!

Dusty Stevens
07-24-2015, 01:16 PM
Pretty sure if the headstamp says ppc on it then its the usa ctg. like the factory ruger and sako offerings

Butch Lambert
07-24-2015, 06:37 PM
If you have a reamer that is fat at the base or your chambering methods allow a "too" large chamber at the base Lapua will even have loose primer pockets.

Steelhead1
07-26-2015, 11:11 AM
Butch,
Thanks for the reminder about the reamer, It was not my reamer and I did not check any dimensions, but that certainly could have been an issue. When I set up a barrel in the lathe I utilize Deltronic pins, and I have a Bison 4 jaw independent chuck that I dial it in with. I use a gauge that is .0005 and I shoot for o movement to 00025" movement., then I do the same on the opposite end, then go back to the breech end to ensure there is no change in TIRO! Some day I would like to try the range rod method.

Butch Lambert
07-26-2015, 11:25 AM
Butch,
Thanks for the reminder about the reamer, It was not my reamer and I did not check any dimensions, but that certainly could have been an issue. When I set up a barrel in the lathe I utilize Deltronic pins, and I have a Bison 4 jaw independent chuck that I dial it in with. I use a gauge that is .0005 and I shoot for o movement to 00025" movement., then I do the same on the opposite end, then go back to the breech end to ensure there is no change in TIRO! Some day I would like to try the range rod method.

Several have tried the gerdy method and discarded it.

HFV
07-26-2015, 12:35 PM
Wilbur shot Lapua brass so many firings (excess of 100) Brass would not die,, so he had to abort it,, and have a brass funeral over a 55 gal trash drum,,,,...

(he would say "old brass ,, you have served me well and brought me many-a-pine board trophy" ,, thank you much ,, but I have to pull the plug,,, good bye) he would then dump it into the barrel. and primer pockets still tite

Maybe not his exact words ( I get disoriented @ funerals) but close

glp
07-26-2015, 04:08 PM
Is there a reason why more people are not using Norma 6 PPC brass? I notice in the shoots results it seems like everyone is using Lapua .220 Russian fire formed for 6 PPC. If there is a good reason for this, please share it with me.

Thanks,

Jim

Is the already mentioned differences in dimensions. I once had a Bob Dodd action. It was a gun he built for himself then sold and I bought it from the second owner. I tried some once fired Lapua brass and it wouldn't chamber. I called Bob and he told me of course it wouldn't fit the reamer I used to chamber the barrel was ground for Norma brass. I bought some from Ken Livengood and never looked back. It shot 28.5 to 29.5 grains of N133 with no ill effects. That was my experience with Norma brass. Very good! Greg

skeetlee
07-26-2015, 06:20 PM
the New Norma brass is decent stuff. I have used it quit a bit. There are a couple things to know about this brass if you choose to shoot it. One main thing, and probably what I like least about the brass is the headspace. The headspace of the new norma brass is really short. If I chamber myself a barrel for this brass, I will have to stop my reamer short about .008to .010 sooner than I would with lapua 220 russian. I like a good snug fit on my brass for the first firing. If you don't stop your reamer short and you run your reamer in for 220 Russian, then your norma brass is going to fireform. what I have found if I go this rout, is that the brass will forever grow and require constant trimming. So if your going to use the norma brass, chamber your barrel accordingly. Lee

Steelhead1
07-27-2015, 10:10 AM
Skeetlee,
Thanks you may have just solved my problem, that would certainly explain the ruptured cases .250 from the base! I appreciate yor input.

Wilbur
08-02-2015, 03:22 AM
Wilbur shot Lapua brass so many firings (excess of 100) Brass would not die,, so he had to abort it,, and have a brass funeral over a 55 gal trash drum,,,,...

(he would say "old brass ,, you have served me well and brought me many-a-pine board trophy" ,, thank you much ,, but I have to pull the plug,,, good bye) he would then dump it into the barrel. and primer pockets still tite

Maybe not his exact words ( I get disoriented @ funerals) but close

That's pretty close! Truth is, the first time I did that was at Reidsville (maybe Roanoke)...and it was that old stuff that everybody wanted but couldn't get. You had to know what color/tint it was to get the right stuff. I remember thinking I had found some and it didn't last two firings. Of course, I shot it a hundred times but hey...It still worked...the rifle fired when I pulled the trigger. Made a hole in the target as well...somewhere!

That fellow I bought those bullet dies from had ten thousand of those good cases. He wanted too much for them at the time....I thought! Should have bought those cases and not the bullet dies.