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View Full Version : Crank Baits and Bullets ? Do they have a shelf life.



SWASHBUCKLER1
06-04-2015, 11:03 AM
Recently it has been discovered that a famous fishing lure made in the late 60's- early 80's has some interesting morphing. This lure is sought world wide and has brought big money in recent years, upwards of $1000.00 for a bait that originally sold for $2.99 and was readily available, but since no longer made in it's original configuration or even by the same company, the demand has grown for the original, which brought on several companies trying to duplicate it. What they found after extensive testing is what made the original special was something quite simple, the rattle inside the lure's were made from lead, and with the environmental changes to the fishing industry most of the new baits have steel, alloy or even tungsten. But what made the original so special is thought to be the lead ball, weights, rattles. But after extensive tests and studies researchers have found that after a period of time the lead would break down, oxidize to such extent that when the baits were cut in half the lead had deteriorated to a degree hardly resembling it's original shape in some cases turning to a powder like condition. That brings me to a thought I had while talking to a friend about my experience studying this phenomenon. Does the same thing happen to Jacketed bullets that have set for many years? but on a smaller scale, does the lead after being exposed to moisture in the air and changing humidity conditions go through a similar phase? I would guess the lead does but on a finite scale if kept in a controlled environment and should not deteriorate like the fishing lure did? But if the lead oxidizes does it loose it's tooth? on the jacket, anyway I just wanted to see if any of you have thought about, studied or looked at bullets that were several decades old, in a world where just about everything has a shelf life, it made me wander what kind of shelf life bench rest bullets have.? Thanks and I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

B.Larson
06-04-2015, 11:18 AM
I have some old match bullets...open tip..... lead core has oxidized and they don`t shoot.

SWASHBUCKLER1
06-04-2015, 11:34 AM
does make sense. Thanks Bill, I bet there is more out there than we realize. kinda my thought just did not have any evidence to support the theory, but it makes sense if you think about it. Bill how old are they? Thanks

jackie schmidt
06-04-2015, 11:41 AM
I gave my Son a vintage Hedon "Lucky 13" that I bought when I was in the Boy Scouts back in the early '60's. He sent it to some place that restores vintage Lures, and he has caught a lot of bass on it.

Of course, unlike me, he is a real fisherman. He also has a Sonic Lure from about the same time period, it's one of those you toss out, let settle, then crank in fast. Great foe open water.

I don't know about bullets. I have some that got wet, I dried them out, and they still shoot as good as a fresh box.

I would think heat would affect them more than anything. For instance, if you left a box on the dash, in the hot sun, the jackets might get hot enough to expand and compromise the core seat.

classcat
06-04-2015, 01:57 PM
SWASHBUCKLER1

What is the name of that Lure? I have an extensive collection of saltwater lures myself. Joe P.

JerrySharrett
06-04-2015, 03:08 PM
Recently it has been discovered that a famous fishing lure made in the late 60's- early 80's has some interesting morphing. This lure is sought world wide and has brought big money in recent years, upwards of $1000.00 for a bait that originally sold for $2.99 and was readily available, but since no longer made in it's original configuration or even by the same company, the demand has grown for the original, which brought on several companies trying to duplicate it. What they found after extensive testing is what made the original special was something quite simple, the rattle inside the lure's were made from lead, and with the environmental changes to the fishing industry most of the new baits have steel, alloy or even tungsten. But what made the original so special is thought to be the lead ball, weights, rattles. But after extensive tests and studies researchers have found that after a period of time the lead would break down, oxidize to such extent that when the baits were cut in half the lead had deteriorated to a degree hardly resembling it's original shape in some cases turning to a powder like condition. That brings me to a thought I had while talking to a friend about my experience studying this phenomenon. Does the same thing happen to Jacketed bullets that have set for many years? but on a smaller scale, does the lead after being exposed to moisture in the air and changing humidity conditions go through a similar phase? I would guess the lead does but on a finite scale if kept in a controlled environment and should not deteriorate like the fishing lure did? But if the lead oxidizes does it loose it's tooth? on the jacket, anyway I just wanted to see if any of you have thought about, studied or looked at bullets that were several decades old, in a world where just about everything has a shelf life, it made me wander what kind of shelf life bench rest bullets have.? Thanks and I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

A few days ago I switched my down scan and structure scan off and dug out a 1980's Bagley Deep Bee, started cranking it across a muddy point till it drug up tree leaves and Whammo, started dragging in Kentucky Bass like I used to! My old 1997 lot of 133 is still a bitch!!

...and someone just wrote that someone on 6 BR is running an ad for some Jef Fowler 66 FB's for $1,000/1k? I've still got about 1,500 or so. Do I dig them out or run an ad??


.

SWASHBUCKLER1
06-04-2015, 04:19 PM
Wiggle Wart is the lure I'm talking about, it's been a very hot lure in the bass fishing world the past few years. It's really funny how something simple, Lead Balls inside the lure body, that deform, oxidize, develop flat spots, etc over time has turned the fishing community so crazy for the old lure. What they found that made the old lure so popular was the lead balls deformed over time and made the lure act erratic, giving it a non predictable unique action that drives bass crazy.

SWASHBUCKLER1
06-04-2015, 04:30 PM
Jerry that is awesome, and yes sometimes we are better off without all the technology and go back to basics. I've spent lots of time at Ky. Lake chasing after Large mouth Bass, it's one of my favorite places on earth.
The 97' 133 I would say use it up and enjoy it.
The Fowler's, ? I really cant say, I've never shoot any of them or had the pleasure of meeting him, but heard lots of good things about both, as far as selling them? I guess if the market bares that kinda money? go for it. LOL

classcat
06-04-2015, 04:58 PM
SWASHBUCKLER1
There was another way. What we did was took a cardiac needle, and injected liquid Mercury ( when it was legal to obtain) into certain chambers of the lure for either balance, or erratic motion.
Joe P.

SWASHBUCKLER1
06-04-2015, 05:10 PM
classcat, yeah you were doing it by design or purpose, the deal with the lure I'm talking about happened by chance and was only stumbled upon after many years of wandering why, the darn this was so good. LOL

redrockranger
06-04-2015, 08:01 PM
I have some old match bullets...open tip..... lead core has oxidized and they don`t shoot.

I thought at one time swagers let their cores set or boiled them and they would get a white look to them,Oxidation then seat them and point up ??

jackie schmidt
06-04-2015, 09:49 PM
A few days ago I switched my down scan and structure scan off and dug out a 1980's Bagley Deep Bee, started cranking it across a muddy point till it drug up tree leaves and Whammo, started dragging in Kentucky Bass like I used to! My old 1997 lot of 133 is still a bitch!!

...and someone just wrote that someone on 6 BR is running an ad for some Jef Fowler 66 FB's for $1,000/1k? I've still got about 1,500 or so. Do I dig them out or run an ad??


.

From 1995 to about 2005, I shot a lot of Fowlers. Anybody else who did will tell you that one "wad", (that's how Jeff packaged them), would shoot phenominol, and the next mediocre at best.

If those are some of the "phenominol" Fowlers, they just might be worth a buck a piece. If they are the others, well, you won't know until you put the coin in and pull the handle.

SWASHBUCKLER1
06-04-2015, 10:06 PM
From 1995 to about 2005, I shot a lot of Fowlers. Anybody else who did will tell you that one "wad", (that's how Jeff packaged them), would shoot phenominol, and the next mediocre at best.

If those are some of the "phenominol" Fowlers, they just might be worth a buck a piece. If they are the others, well, you won't know until you put the coin in and pull the handle.

Jackie sorry but I'm not aware of the Fowler bullets you guys speak of, like I said I never had the opportunity to shoot any of them. My question about shelf life is because some / most bullet makers do oxidize their cores in some what of a harsh way / method. I just did my first batch and and it effects the lead cores quickly, this process actually attacks the lead and causes the oxidation, thus giving the core a rough surface so it has "teeth" or grip when seated into the jacket. But my question is how long before this etching process deteriorates the core to the point that is looses it's grip / teeth and may become detrimental to the accuracy of the bullets. One thought is lead being a porous metal retains some of this chemical even with cleaning, then take in the effect of the moisture, or conditions the finished bullets are exposed to it has to have an effect on the core at some point, time, thus my question as reference to the question. Crank Baits and Bullets do they have a shelf life?
Thanks Rich

JerrySharrett
06-06-2015, 06:04 AM
From 1995 to about 2005, I shot a lot of Fowlers. Anybody else who did will tell you that one "wad", (that's how Jeff packaged them), would shoot phenominol, and the next mediocre at best.

If those are some of the "phenominol" Fowlers, they just might be worth a buck a piece. If they are the others, well, you won't know until you put the coin in and pull the handle.

Without saying more, Jef made some and Ed made some in Jefs later years. I don't know any way of sorting them except on paper.

,

Dusty Stevens
06-06-2015, 04:46 PM
I called that wad a grapefruit. I have some and i have some watsons from many eras of his production including some of the last. A buck a piece they should be hand delivered

Wilbur
06-07-2015, 02:08 AM
Crankbaits yes...bullets no.

JerrySharrett
06-07-2015, 06:38 AM
I called that wad a grapefruit. I have some and i have some watsons from many eras of his production including some of the last. A buck a piece they should be hand delivered

I called them cocoons. Ziplock bags containing 1,000 bullets, by weight, wrapped with clear plastic packing tape. I've sat and watched Jef weigh them out, never counted but weighed. Who would want to actually count one thousand bullets anyhoo??

A buck apiece? Are we going crazy or what??

.

B J Atkinson
06-11-2015, 09:29 PM
Maybe some bullets aged better than others (like wine!).
I have some original Remington 52gn HP Match from the mid 1970's that will still shoot bug holes out of a 22PPC.
Likewise some Watson 68gn bullets that I bought from Ed at Kelbly's way back in 1980.
They still shoot just fine.

Wilbur
06-14-2015, 01:41 PM
I thought Alan Hall had all those 52gr Remington bullets...I know he's got a bunch of them! Don't waste your time though as they AIN'T FOR SALE!

B J Atkinson
06-16-2015, 01:00 AM
I thought Alan Hall had all those 52gr Remington bullets...I know he's got a bunch of them! Don't waste your time though as they AIN'T FOR SALE!
Neither are mine!!!

geo.ulrich
06-19-2015, 09:53 AM
I thought Alan Hall had all those 52gr Remington bullets...I know he's got a bunch of them! Don't waste your time though as they AIN'T FOR SALE!

Wilbur, There should be a warning placed on older bullets if they are still good they must of been made during a period when preservatives were not as regulated as now, someone should warn Allen about this. If anyone else needs assistance in disposing of any old Remington b.r. bullets I can dispose of properly. ;)