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Chism G
05-06-2015, 10:35 AM
A non-machinist has a distinct competitive disadvantage in this Sport. A non-machinist that does not have a private shooting range or ready access to one,has a Competitive disadvantage in this Sport. There are of course a few exceptions to this view point.

The Competitior who possess machinist skills necessary to do his own Rifle work.ie,Barrel Chambering, general Riflesmithing Has a competitive advantage. Ad to that advantage,those competitors who in addition to the machinist skills also own their own private ranges/tunnels

I bring this up because I believe many of us fit into that first category Of Competitor. Including myself. Content on paying the registration fees and just having a little fun. Oh, I have friends who will come to my aid when I need gunsmithing work. I have to , understandably, work around their busy schedules. Most times their schedules don’t allow me to get something fixed the week before the match. Hence,a competitive disadvantage.

I am delighted When I occasionally do good at a match. I don’t practice enough. I can,t make last minute fixes that require Machinists skills and Tools,but I don’t complain.I just keep buying Lotto tickets.

I hope this discussion will benefit those thinking of getting into this fun Sport. Its just Food for thought.

Lets talk about this.



Glenn

HovisKM
05-06-2015, 11:10 AM
I would have to disagree. Looking at the HOF, most do not or did not do their own machine work prior to getting into the HOF, nor did they have tunnels, etc. I could go as far as saying it could be a distraction that takes away from practice. Just my thoughts on it.

But all these guys have a few things in common....practice time, component evaluation skill, and ability to tune.

For me, there has to be enjoyment. That's first.

Hovis

Dusty Stevens
05-06-2015, 11:28 AM
Gotta be a planner first and foremost. Have extra everything way ahead of time. Have a new barrel 6mo before you need it. Have a spare gun with ammo preloaded for the trigger that goes out in a relay, have a spare set of brass. Just think about what can go wrong that you wont easily borrow in a match and get ready

Centerfire
05-06-2015, 02:04 PM
The Machinists / tool makers also save considerable money by not having to buy wind flags or probes.
The wind never blows in their lane? ;)
Centerfire

goodgrouper
05-06-2015, 02:23 PM
Having a lathe and knowing how to use it is certainly helpful in this game. It would save you money and wait time, and allow you to do things your way. However, I don't think it's a competitive advantage as much as a convenience advantage.

The second thing you mentioned, having a personal range and/or tunnel, is definitely a big advantage for a competitor. The ability to step out one's door and instantly be ready to shoot would be a dream. You would spend less time traveling, setting up, taking down, and more time shooting. More trigger time and less time wasted hauling junk around can only be an advantage for the competitor.

That being said, the two biggest advantages a Bench Rest competitor can have is not a lathe or a personal range, but rather a heap of money and a ton of time. No one will ever convince me that this game has not become a game for the wealthy, retired folks. Sure, you can play the game on the cheap and without practicing. But the advantage will always be to the guy who can afford to chamber up 6 or 7 barrels per year, and send unlimited amounts of components down those barrels any time he wants. All the natural shooting talent and wind reading ability in the world can't keep up with that. It might win a match here or there, but over the long haul, the guy with the most supplies and the most time to compete will have the advantage. And if that fella has a private range and a lathe............well, envy is a deadly sin.:rolleyes:

zippy06
05-06-2015, 07:53 PM
Time. I got a load of time. What am I doing? sitting at the key board.............
Money. I gots the money. If I had a lathe and mill, I would just need more money, to build more experiments....
Would money and time help win. No.
Right now. I don't care to drive. To Benchrest matches.
But, I do shoot every weekend. Something. Pins, plates, paper.....
Maybe, when the barrels get back to the quality they were 8-9 yrs ago....Maybe.

goodgrouper
05-06-2015, 08:29 PM
Maybe, when the barrels get back to the quality they were 8-9 yrs ago....Maybe.

That's where the time and money come in. Yeah, you can still find decent barrels these days. Only thing is you have to buy half a dozen to get one now. How do you know if you got a good one? Well, that's where time comes in.......you have to spend more money to put more rounds down more barrels to find the good one. That takes more time and more money. There just ain't no way around it I'm afraid.

David Halblom
05-06-2015, 09:22 PM
Time. I got a load of time. What am I doing? sitting at the key board.............
Money. I gots the money. If I had a lathe and mill, I would just need more money, to build more experiments....
Would money and time help win. No.
Right now. I don't care to drive. To Benchrest matches.
But, I do shoot every weekend. Something. Pins, plates, paper.....
Maybe, when the barrels get back to the quality they were 8-9 yrs ago....Maybe.

Just an observation. You say you shoot "every weekend". But not BR "every weekend". The grand mix of your shooting may well be a part of the issue. I know when I decide to shoot a few rounds of skeet or trap w/ friends during the BR season, my bench shooting suffers. Whole different paradigm of actions. Jerk vs squeeze. Track vs read flags.

And as far as driving to matches, at least you have BR range relatively close to home. Go there and practice.

Just MHO.

David

CharlieH
05-06-2015, 09:40 PM
My observation is it's the personalities that produce the winners. These are the people that are driven to succeed. So, I'd say, with a little wind, you could swap guns and they'd still win.

GerryM
05-06-2015, 11:12 PM
It sure doesn't hurt you can stretch your budget by doing more of your own work.
Its not rocket science installing anew barrel. Really is just basic.
That said Practice is more important and being able to make top notch hand loads. that are concentric.
Bullet making helps too. If you make your own you'll have control on the quality of your bullets and be able to trade for chambering or other services for bullets.
The most important thing is having a great range to practice on, that's the tough one.

Dave Coots
05-06-2015, 11:34 PM
Having a lathe and knowing how to use it is certainly helpful in this game. It would save you money and wait time, and allow you to do things your way. However, I don't think it's a competitive advantage as much as a convenience advantage.

The second thing you mentioned, having a personal range and/or tunnel, is definitely a big advantage for a competitor. The ability to step out one's door and instantly be ready to shoot would be a dream. You would spend less time traveling, setting up, taking down, and more time shooting. More trigger time and less time wasted hauling junk around can only be an advantage for the competitor.

That being said, the two biggest advantages a Bench Rest competitor can have is not a lathe or a personal range, but rather a heap of money and a ton of time. No one will ever convince me that this game has not become a game for the wealthy, retired folks. Sure, you can play the game on the cheap and without practicing. But the advantage will always be to the guy who can afford to chamber up 6 or 7 barrels per year, and send unlimited amounts of components down those barrels any time he wants. All the natural shooting talent and wind reading ability in the world can't keep up with that. It might win a match here or there, but over the long haul, the guy with the most supplies and the most time to compete will have the advantage. And if that fella has a private range and a lathe............well, envy is a deadly sin.:rolleyes:

How many bbls would a person have to chamber to pay for that lathe?

Chism G
05-07-2015, 02:28 AM
Just Curious..How many names in the top twenty Cactus Two Gun ,do their own machine work? Is this information even relative to the question,"Are Machinists skills necessary"

http://benchrest.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16007&d=1426484720



Glenn

goodgrouper
05-07-2015, 02:51 AM
How many bbls would a person have to chamber to pay for that lathe?

Well that would all depend on if he's a rich guy or a poor guy Dave!;) A rich guy probably wouldn't be concerned about it....

goodgrouper
05-07-2015, 03:07 AM
Just Curious..How many names in the top twenty Cactus Two Gun ,do their own machine work? Is this information even relative to the question,"Are Machinists skills necessary"

http://benchrest.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16007&d=1426484720



Glenn

A quick glance at the equipment list would tell the story.

Out of that group, I know there are quite a few....

JerrySharrett
05-07-2015, 07:27 AM
CharlieH and GerryM said most of what needs to be said to answer Clenn's questions.

And, yes, a suitable and convenient place to practice that duplicates what would be expected at a registered shoot. Within 30 minutes of me are 4 good gun clubs with concrete benches and overhead cover. Plus, 3 friends have ranges where I can shoot, one to 600 yards, within that distance and I have my own private range. I'm saying this to point out practice is at the top of the list in importance. Being able to get the most out of "what ye' brung" is what takes you up the list.

Mike Bryant
05-07-2015, 12:08 PM
When I started shooting benchrest, a friend of mine, Joe Archer would chamber my barrels after work at the machine shop where he worked. After watching him do it, I figured I could do that and bought a Jet bench top belt drive lathe. I think it cost about $2750. Not much of a lathe, but it doesn't take much of a lathe to do a good job chambering a barrel. It was a big investment for me at the time and one I probably couldn't afford. However, I don't regret it at all and certainly never thought it would lead to a shop full of machine equipment. What I've found is that when you can do your own work, you'll change barrels more often than if you don't as you are only out the cost of the barrel and your time. I probably wind up taking off a competitive barrel before it needs to be taken off. It seems they shoot their best when they are fairly new. As to going through lots of barrels to find one thats competitive, I just haven't seen it. Looking at the equipment list at the Cactus, 16 out of 20 in the LV and 13 out of 20 in the HV class did their own barrel work. Having a range close to your house doesn't hurt a thing, but you still have to take the time and have the drive to use it. I think it's the drive to compete that separates most of the ones at the top of the leader board from the rest of us. Starting your group in the right conditions doesn't hurt a thing either. It took a long time to figure out that there are 7 minutes to shoot the group and that the group doesn't have to be shot in the first minute or two with whatever condition is present at the time. I think Dusty has the right idea if you don't do your own work, it takes more planning. You have to have the new chambered barrel sitting on the shelf ahead of time of when you want it especially in todays times where it takes so long to get barrels from the manufacturer. The same with bullets. If you like a certain bullet, plan ahead and have them sitting on the shelf.

jackie schmidt
05-07-2015, 12:48 PM
As most know, I am a Machinist, and to add to that, I own a rather good size Machine Shop.

In my opinion, based on years of experience in running a shop, I can say that basic barrel work can be performed by any 1st year apprentice. The perameters of the job are really quite simple in machine shop terms, and there is tooling readily available that makes the work more or less "painting by the numbers".

The single advantage in having your own equipment, and knowing how to achieve the requirements of the job, is convienience. I can call Lester Bruno on Monday, have a barrel by Thursday, and be ready to shoot that week end. That beats......."I am 6 weeks behind" when you call a Gunsmith.

There is something to be said for that.

But, I think a bigger advantage than having a Shop is being a member of The Tomball Gun Club. Since it is a closed membership private club, I have access to it 7 days a week, from dawn till dusk. Sometimes, several of us will have the range entirely to ourselves for an entire day. It is a phenominol place to be a member of.

I tell people that a membership in the Tomball Gun Club "is worth it's weight in great barrels and good bullets.

Ron Hoehn
05-07-2015, 12:54 PM
When I purchased my first lathe, the guy was joking with me and said, "If you promise to buy all your tooling from me, I will just give you the lathe"! At the time, I didn't know how true that statement was. That first lathe cost about $4000. THEN, add the price of all the reamers, headspace gauges, Aloris tool post ($400), about 20 tool holders at $40 each, AND the tools to go in them at anywhere from $50 to $175 each, 3 sets of Deltronic pin gauges at $135 per set. (22, 6mm. 30 cal). Micrometers, Ball mics, 6 jaw chuck, live centers, indicators, cutting oils, (by the gallon / 5 gallon)
band saw, belt sander to polish barrels, good scale to weigh rifles, action wrenches to fit most actions, and believe me, the list goes ON-AND-ON. Don't misunderstand, I enjoy doing this kind of work very much, BUT, if it's the money you want to save, have someone else do your work, and you will be many $$$$ ahead of of the game, But, you will miss out on the enjoyment of doing your own work. And when someone is shooting a rifle you built, there is a lot of satisfaction in that too. It was a decision that I have never regreted.

zippy06
05-07-2015, 08:15 PM
That's where the time and money come in. Yeah, you can still find decent barrels these days. Only thing is you have to buy half a dozen to get one now. How do you know if you got a good one? Well, that's where time comes in.......you have to spend more money to put more rounds down more barrels to find the good one. That takes more time and more money. There just ain't no way around it I'm afraid.

Larry Costa indicated he bought 30 barrels to come in 2nd IBS nationals 2013.

Richard
05-07-2015, 08:18 PM
" I don't practice enough" I guess you need to define practice. For myself, it's alot more than just trying to read the flags and shoot a few good groups. most of my "practice" is about tune and trouble shooting. If the rifle is not shooting well, why? Is it the bbl, bullets, what about the ignition? What about your rest setup? Could it be the scope? There are so many things, you can have 99% of the things right but all it takes is that 1% to screw you up.
I spend most of time hunting for that last 1%. And I'm still not there.

Richard Brensing

zippy06
05-07-2015, 08:18 PM
That's where the time and money come in. Yeah, you can still find decent barrels these days. Only thing is you have to buy half a dozen to get one now. How do you know if you got a good one? Well, that's where time comes in.......you have to spend more money to put more rounds down more barrels to find the good one. That takes more time and more money. There just ain't no way around it I'm afraid.

Oh, by the way. My 1st barrel Kreiger 14 twist. Shot a club record after 3000 rounds.............What ya got?.....Practice fell off after that....WORK got in the way. Then junk Stainless barrels......

zippy06
05-07-2015, 08:21 PM
Just an observation. You say you shoot "every weekend". But not BR "every weekend". The grand mix of your shooting may well be a part of the issue. I know when I decide to shoot a few rounds of skeet or trap w/ friends during the BR season, my bench shooting suffers. Whole different paradigm of actions. Jerk vs squeeze. Track vs read flags.

And as far as driving to matches, at least you have BR range relatively close to home. Go there and practice.

Just MHO.

David

David you may be correct. My attitude has a lot to do with it. It's a long story........I don't like to practice. Even load testing on Friday has it's limits......

Chism G
05-07-2015, 08:21 PM
My question brought out some reputable craftsmen of the Sport. Thanks,Gentlemen for taking the time to share your thoughts. I have always thought I was leaving something on the table by not owning a lathe and learning how to use it. In my opinion,convenience is a competitive advantage.

I,ve learned in this Sport that its you against the Range and conditions. Same as in Golf. Some Ranges can be a challenge,simply by design.

Owning a private range would certainly be a competitive advantage. I’ll find out when I win the Lotto.

The general consensus in response to my question,appears to be,

“Deep Pockets,(money Rules,can't argue that one ) plus Machiniists Skills and a Private range or access to a suitable facility in close proximity to residence. will greatly enhance your shooting skills ” A definite advantage.

You can still have a lot of fun without the aforementioned assets, as I do. But,it doesn't hurt to dream. Just my thoughts.


Glenn

zippy06
05-07-2015, 08:29 PM
CharlieH and GerryM said most of what needs to be said to answer Clenn's questions.

And, yes, a suitable and convenient place to practice that duplicates what would be expected at a registered shoot. Within 30 minutes of me are 4 good gun clubs with concrete benches and overhead cover. Plus, 3 friends have ranges where I can shoot, one to 600 yards, within that distance and I have my own private range. I'm saying this to point out practice is at the top of the list in importance. Being able to get the most out of "what ye' brung" is what takes you up the list.

Wow Jerry. It sounds like ya won the lottery.
And ya got friends.
I have been told I am lucky. Being 1 hour from 2 ranges. One has concrete benches, the other rickety wood.....
I got a call tonight. The rickety wood benches, maybe gone soon. That club has finally gotten around to doing something about concrete benches....:)

zippy06
05-07-2015, 08:48 PM
My question brought out some reputable craftsmen of the Sport. Thanks,Gentlemen for taking the time to share your thoughts. I have always thought I was leaving something on the table by not owning a lathe and learning how to use it. In my opinion,convenience is a competitive advantage.

I,ve learned in this Sport that its you against the Range and conditions. Same as in Golf. Some Ranges can be a challenge,simply by design.

Owning a private range would certainly be a competitive advantage. I’ll find out when I win the Lotto.

The general consensus in response to my question,appears to be,

“Deep Pockets,(money Rules,can't argue that one ) plus Machiniists Skills and a Private range or access to a suitable facility in close proximity to residence. will greatly enhance your shooting skills ” A definite advantage.

You can still have a lot of fun without the aforementioned assets, as I do. But,it doesn't hurt to dream. Just my thoughts.


Glenn

Glenn those thoughts have run through my head a lot. Long story here....
So I met a bullet maker and he had the first custom rifle I ever saw. Wow. Did it shot. He always had a perfect score. At the time I did not know about the NBRSA or IBS. Just a local club. Everyone was real nice.
Next thing ya know a famous Shooter passed away. And the bullet maker had a rifle to sell. And it was a beauty.
Then he shows me how to make bullets. That was 8-9 yrs ago. Today I wore out another work bench. I was wondering what that noise was.....
Anyway. I am done making bullets. I might have enough to get me through to the end.....The lathe, don't have room for a lathe.
Still going to local matches. The score league starts next Tues. Hope the bullet maker can make it.

liljoe
05-07-2015, 09:10 PM
I have to agree with Ron. Seeing someone else shoot with a barrel you chambered and winning is really gratifying, it also makes ya made when they beat ya. :)

Someone else also mentioned the personality thing. Yep, most all the big names are very driven, not taking the easy road. It is that way in any sport. The old adage" The harder I try the better I do".


Joe Hynes

Oh and yes I have a lathe and my own range. Just came in from shooting.

goodgrouper
05-07-2015, 11:40 PM
Larry Costa indicated he bought 30 barrels to come in 2nd IBS nationals 2013.

Holy smokes! I knew these guys were getting serious quantities ordered, but I couldn't even fathom ordering 30 barrels. Just chambering that many would be a full time job for quite some time!

When I had a chat with Tony Boyer a couple years ago, he said that he was "trying lots of barrels", but he wouldn't put a number on it.

goodgrouper
05-07-2015, 11:47 PM
Oh, by the way. My 1st barrel Kreiger 14 twist. Shot a club record after 3000 rounds.............What ya got?.....Practice fell off after that....WORK got in the way. Then junk Stainless barrels......

Yep, I agree. I used to get barrels that I felt were competitive up to 2000 rounds. Even won some wood with one that was fried inside out according to the borescope. But I haven't had one like that post '09. The last few I've had seem to go right down the swirler bowl at about 500.

Sure makes you want to go practice when you know you might go through 1/5 the barrel's accuracy life that day!:eek::mad:

goodgrouper
05-07-2015, 11:57 PM
There are so many things, you can have 99% of the things right but all it takes is that 1% to screw you up.
I spend most of time hunting for that last 1%. And I'm still not there.

Richard Brensing


That's a BIG +1;)

jackie schmidt
05-08-2015, 12:18 AM
I haven't bought a new barrel blank in 5 years. The barrels I have been chambering as of late are ones I have had for a while. I had no idea that the barrel situation was so deplorable.

The barrel I was going to shoot The a Bluebonnet with is one from about 2005 that I cut the whole chamber off of, and re chambered it. It shoots pretty darned good. I will take it to Seymour in two weeks.

What's the deal with the barrels? I doubt the 416R material most makers used has changed, but then, since Crucible had it's problems, I might be wrong.

It did always tickle me when I would read where a certain Champion used a certain barrel, when you knew, for a fact, that he had to go through a whole pile to find one good enough.

JerrySharrett
05-08-2015, 07:29 AM
Barrel steel is a problem. Where did that come from? I have chambered and shot Bartlein and Krieger barrels that I bought in 2013 and shot in the 2014 season. They gave all done as well as barrels I did in 1999 and 2000. I did have one barrel, around 2006, that had an overlapped place about 6" from the muzzle which caused it to copper after just 5-6 shots. That barrel was replaced by the manufacturer.

What troubles me personally about the IS steel industry is we nave none now apparently. Its all made in Communist China from coal that is shipped from just about 80 miles North of me, The CSX coal trains, carrying 120 100 ton cars of coal go by here every few minutes, several an hour. Where do they go? To a seaport in South Carolina where the coal is loaded on ships to Communist China and now probably to Communist Vietnam.

Getting into the NO-NO of this board for a moment, all the scrap steel from the WTC fiasco was IMMEDIATELY shipped to China BEFORE any forensic testing was done. Can you imagine, in just a few days ALL the WTC steel was shipped out and the remaining debris was dumped in the ocean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxycV4fNPnQ

.

GerryM
05-08-2015, 10:18 AM
Guys the steel. Thank the US government for the steel '' They shut down steel production and a lot of other industries by stopping steel production.
The bar stock at crucible is still some great steel but its re cycled steel and always was. scrap was melted and additives were added to come up with a formula.

The biggest problem is the bar stock and how its handled. The heat treat from the producer has a lot to do with it.
If the bars aren't handled properly they take a set and are sent to the Bar straightening . That's where the problem is.
The bars look straight but have been corrected by bending them to shape. That puts stress into the bars that can't be removed , even with heat treating.
The producers know this and it, but everything goes out the door. It would be way to expensive for them to scrap the bars.
There are some simple solutions to that problem but few people have addressed the issue. Its easier to just let it go or complain.

JerrySharrett
05-08-2015, 03:10 PM
. It would be way to expensive for them to scrap the bars.
There are some simple solutions to that problem but few people have addressed the issue. Its easier to just let it go or complain.

OK, GM, what is the simple solution and is it less fun than bitching and griping?

My solution would be to scrap the whole bunch of alphabet agencies, EPA, OSHA, IRS, CIA, NSA, FED. and the rest!!

But come 2016, every one will vote the same old ticket and expect different results. So it will be Jeb Clinton or Hillary Bush or some cross-dresser from Guatemala!!

AndyTaber
05-08-2015, 03:41 PM
Too easy to blame the U.S. Government for everything. Steel production and usage peaked in the mid 70's and fell from there. The decline of the railroads, construction of large skyscrapers dried up, ships were being built more with aluminum than steel, bridge building relied more on pre-cast concrete than steel. The steel industry prioritized on short term profits rather than long term innovation. This is what killed U.S. steel production.

sdean
05-08-2015, 03:48 PM
Blame it on the government? The people are the government. From what I see it's over with. Smile and make the best of of the ride down.

Pete Wass
05-08-2015, 06:00 PM
Blame it on the government? The people are the government. From what I see it's over with. Smile and make the best of of the ride down.

We are too far down the road and the troth has gotten way too big to see any changes until finally the money runs out. There is nothing we can do about it anyway.

Pete

tim
05-08-2015, 06:20 PM
Not the Govt. Gerry, two things primarily, foriegn competition coming from modern,not turn of the century steel plants, but mostly the absolute unrelenting attitude by the USW to stand to the last man without budging in a changing world. Sad but true

Joe Maisto
05-08-2015, 07:31 PM
My observation is it's the personalities that produce the winners. These are the people that are driven to succeed. So, I'd say, with a little wind, you could swap guns and they'd still win.

:D.
True enough Charlie. If there is anyone doesn't believe that , pay attention to Mr. LC.

GerryM
05-08-2015, 11:36 PM
easy solution to straight bars is the cradle holding the bar stock that is put into the furnace at heat treat and bar anneal.
being careful to get the bars stock straight in the furnace when taken to temps and drawn, open the furnace and shut it down , let cool
The bar stock that is that twist's is culled out and sent back to melt. The steel that,s cold enough to be handled is then hand set on to a pallet for final cooling{ the pallet is long enough to support the bars .
care is give to ensure that the bar stock is supported all the way thru. The bars are then cut up into barrel lengths as requested by the customer. at the short stage the bar stock is then sent to bar anneal to soften them as to specs { final draw. a mini mill could handle this with few problems.
The big deal is large companies want to sell volume. I know one barrel maker that had to buy a whole heat {furnace] and then still had problems .

GerryM
05-08-2015, 11:45 PM
Tim that,s the typical corporate answer and you know it.

Demand slowed down do to all of the great society and its BS .

OSHA and the EPA had a lot to do with it along with government policy set by the temporary occupants of the white house.

A a political agenda to shut down industry in the US under the guise of keeping america healthy. Truth is the demand was always there there.

Jerry I agree with your stand on the government agencies most of them stink .

Just who is the next pres / I don't know but one thing I do know the older ones are RINOS

jackie schmidt
05-09-2015, 11:56 PM
At my Shop, we buy a lot of steel.

None of it is made in the USA. Most comes from Eastern European Mills that used to be part of the Soviet Block.

8 and 9 inch bars of 1022.

goodgrouper
05-10-2015, 04:53 AM
At my Shop, we buy a lot of steel.

None of it is made in the USA. Most comes from Eastern European Mills that used to be part of the Soviet Block.

8 and 9 inch bars of 1022.

That's disheartening. Have you noticed any problems with that foreign steel that you didn't used to see with our domestic stuff?

I used to have a steel mill right in my backyard. It basically was this town. It was the largest employer in my whole county. Everybody worked there. Everybody got paid well, had retirement, and fed money back into the local economy. Several years ago, it shut down due to the "economy". China bought it. Every scrap right down to the blocks that lined the ovens. They paid to have it all shipped over there. Now we buy steel from them made on our equipment with half the quality.

Yep, we're in trouble.......

JerrySharrett
05-10-2015, 07:46 AM
At my Shop, we buy a lot of steel.

None of it is made in the USA. Most comes from Eastern European Mills that used to be part of the Soviet Block.

8 and 9 inch bars of 1022.

This is what I am talking about guys and gals. The next war, and there will be one because there always have been wars, will we build our ships and airplanes out of.....what?? Telephone call centers?? We were told in the Nixon era we would be used as a service society. That was a slight misstatement. We will be the servants of this ruling class. Read he Babylonian Talmud!!

Nixon opened up Communist China, Clinton gave them Most Favored Nation Status. GW Bush opened up Communist Vietnam just before he left office. Now tell me the GOP and the Dems are who we need to support come 2016!

.(sorry CCBW, guess we need a political section in this forum)


.

Dusty Stevens
05-10-2015, 01:05 PM
Hey i just got off a 19,000 ton coal train this morning- 112 aluminum cars and 5 engines- 4 up front. Smooth wyoming coal headed to rodemache, la (sp). I love driving severely overpowered coal trains in the hills.

JerrySharrett
05-10-2015, 04:12 PM
Hey i just got off a 19,000 ton coal train this morning- 112 aluminum cars and 5 engines- 4 up front. Smooth wyoming coal headed to rodemache, la (sp). I love driving severely overpowered coal trains in the hills.

And its destination was Pittsburg to fire steel furnaces I'll bet.

.

adamsgt
05-10-2015, 05:22 PM
Dusty, I believe that is the Power Plant at Rodemacher, Louisiana.

GerryM
05-10-2015, 11:32 PM
Jerry your right on that where?
Heaven forbid another big war that we are involved in''
What companies would be able to retool to make the goods needed to supply us.

JerrySharrett
05-11-2015, 07:30 AM
OK, back to the machinist skills question. If a BR shooter wants to chamber benchrest quality barrels, true actions and such they need to know more about machining and safe machine tool operation than the average Trailways bus driver.

Could the average BR shooter learn the necessary skills. yes.

Do they need to and will they, a few will and a few will not.

For example, Faye Boyer, who has more HOF points than all the posters on this forum combine fries a mean Southern Fried Chicken but running a lathe hasn't helped her yet and probably never will!!!

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Mike Bryant
05-13-2015, 01:37 PM
Back to the original question, which was way before the political statement.
Are machinist skills necessary?
No

Francis, you don't have to have machinist skills to shoot benchrest, but it certainly doesn't hurt. If you don't chamber your own barrels, don't make your own bullets, turn your own brass, then you'd better be a good planner. Plan ahead and you don't have to do any of that. I like the sign that states, "Lack of planning on your part, doesn't constitute an emeregency on my part." Planning ahead solves lots of problems.