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Steelhead1
01-16-2015, 12:03 PM
Just a headsup for anyone that owns one of these scopes, in Dec I sent my XR back to Weaver because it looked like it had fluid trapped between the lenses and I looked through 3 others at a match in Nov., all had this issue. A couple of days ago I hadn't heard from Weaver and figured it was time to call for a status update. I was surprised that Weaver wanted to keep my scope and offered me $825.00 to buy it back, because they are having problems with them, and are working on a new design, but do not have a date when they will be available! I was getting ready to accept the money, when I asked if they would be willing to send my scope back to me, until the new ones are available and they agreed to do that. So if you have one and it needs service for the spots in the lense and its still works hold off sending it in.

Uthink Uknow
01-16-2015, 06:55 PM
Is there a chance that same offer will be on the table when the new scopes are available?

Dusty Stevens
01-16-2015, 09:30 PM
I guess they got in a hurry introducing them

Steelhead1
01-16-2015, 10:12 PM
They told me they would notify me when the new ones are available, and then I can send it back and get the new model. This was the XR 46 model. Yes Dusty it does appear they were in a hurry to get these to market.

DSM
01-16-2015, 10:47 PM
I've heard it was just internal lubricant from the erector tube dripping on a lens inside. They are taking care of anyone having the issue. No ETA on fix...

D Zack
01-17-2015, 09:07 AM
I got a brand new scope (XR series) and it was bad right out of the box. The paralex can't be adjusted beyond 200 yards (it's set on 500 yards to get it for 200). I only had it one day, put it on the gun and found the problem. I called weaver and they told me to send it in and they would look at it, but I had to pay the shipping.

Steelhead1
01-17-2015, 05:48 PM
They have now stopped making you send $15.00 check for return shipping. I would suppose that if the have these two problems perhaps thats why the guy said they are doing a re design on it. Whatever the problem is and the fact that they offered to buy mine back shows that they are taking care of the problem and the customer, and I appreciate that.

adamsgt
01-17-2015, 07:58 PM
I was thinking about one of those, but another Leupold 45 X 45 competition will be delivered on Monday.

linekin
01-17-2015, 09:41 PM
Glad this thread was started as I was going to try one too. Guess its another Leupold for me too. Glad to hear they're doing right by the OP.
Keith

Daleb
01-18-2015, 09:50 AM
Same situation as OP, I contacted Weaver last week and they cut me a check for the full amount I paid for the scope.

KEITH MYERS
01-26-2015, 01:04 AM
That's strange Gary. I recently picked up two of the same and am very pleased with them.

Travelor
01-26-2015, 08:08 AM
Mine has gone back, we'll see..........................

Steelhead1
01-26-2015, 12:23 PM
Well mine just returned on saturday, and it is in the same condition as when I sent it and I looked at three other s at the shoot in Las Vegas in October and all three had the liquid spots in the lense's! 2 of the scopes were on T. Debacco's guns and I don't remember the other guys name. My neighbor bought one for his new 30BR last month and his has the spots also. I don,t know what their fix will be, but they have not found a solution yet. Keith, when I come down in March you can take a look through it, and I am sure you will be convinced that there is indeed a problem! why else would they offer to buy it back in lieu of sending me a new one?

Slowshot
01-30-2015, 02:31 PM
I posted the text of an e-mail exchange I just had with Dan Killough in another thread on these scopes. I will repeat it here:

Here is my letter:
As your records will show, I just ordered one of the new Weaver Side focus scopes. I am concerned because I just read of an on-going issue with oil spots on the inside of the lenses of these scopes, with most being returned. Are you aware of this issue? Do you know if the ones you are now shipping are ones where Weaver has fixed the problem? Here is a link to a thread on Benchrest Central discussing the problem:
http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?...aver-XR-Series


Here is the reply:
Yes, I am aware of the problem, and we have checked these to ensure they are good.

Dan Killough
KilloughShootingSports.com
5999 US 83
Winters, Tx 79567
325-754-5771

Jim Pag
01-30-2015, 07:22 PM
I posted the text of an e-mail exchange I just had with Dan Killough in another thread on these scopes. I will repeat it here:

Here is my letter:
As your records will show, I just ordered one of the new Weaver Side focus scopes. I am concerned because I just read of an on-going issue with oil spots on the inside of the lenses of these scopes, with most being returned. Are you aware of this issue? Do you know if the ones you are now shipping are ones where Weaver has fixed the problem? Here is a link to a thread on Benchrest Central discussing the problem:
http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?...aver-XR-Series


Here is the reply:
Yes, I am aware of the problem, and we have checked these to ensure they are good.

Dan Killough
KilloughShootingSports.com
5999 US 83
Winters, Tx 79567
325-754-5771
Tell me if I'm wrong, but I assume that he just looked thru the scopes that he had and they all looked clear, but what I'm assuming is that everybody who bought one looked thru their and said the same thing, but it seems to me that the problem started a to show up after some use. Does that make any sense?

Slowshot
01-30-2015, 07:56 PM
Tell me if I'm wrong, but I assume that he just looked thru the scopes that he had and they all looked clear, but what I'm assuming is that everybody who bought one looked thru their and said the same thing, but it seems to me that the problem started a to show up after some use. Does that make any sense?

You may be correct. I will just trust Dan Killough to stand by what he sells. I will let you all know how it goes, when I try out the scope. Has anyone who bought from Dan been stuck with a defective scope? I doubt it. A small volume business like Killough Shooting Sports could not survive if there was a history of unhappy customers.

I took a lot greater risk when I bought a used Hawke Sidewinder 30 through an ad in RFC. I thought it was made in England. After buying it, I found it is made in my least favorite dictatorship, Communist China, a country not famous for quality control. I have not tried it yet and to be honest, I am scared.

Jim Pag
01-30-2015, 08:08 PM
You may be correct. I will just trust Dan Killough to stand by what he sells. I will let you all know how it goes, when I try out the scope. Has anyone who bought from Dan been stuck with a defective scope? I doubt it. A small volume business like Killough Shooting Sports could not survive if there was a history of unhappy customers.

I took a lot greater risk when I bought a used Hawke Sidewinder 30 through an ad in RFC. I thought it was made in England. After buying it, I found it is made in my least favorite dictatorship, Communist China, a country not famous for quality control. I have not tried it yet and to be honest, I am scared.

What makes Dan Killough different from anybody else that sells this scope? Sure he will stand by it, and so will Lester Bruno and whoever else sells these defective scopes. I'm sure that every one of the distributors that sell these scopes had defective ones. After all it's not any of the distributors fault, it's Weaver fault for not thoroughly testing them before they released them to the general public. Weaver knows about the problems, and they have stepped up and are taking action to correct any and all problems associated with this scope.

Slowshot
01-31-2015, 02:30 PM
What makes Dan Killough different from anybody else that sells this scope? Sure he will stand by it, and so will Lester Bruno and whoever else sells these defective scopes. I'm sure that every one of the distributors that sell these scopes had defective ones. After all it's not any of the distributors fault, it's Weaver fault for not thoroughly testing them before they released them to the general public. Weaver knows about the problems, and they have stepped up and are taking action to correct any and all problems associated with this scope.

This is my first experience with Dan Killough. I always assume any business is honest and reliable unless experience proves otherwise. Now Dan has promised to send me a scope without the oil leak issue. I will take him at his word.

I did not mean to demean any other supplier. I have no experience with Bruno's. If you follow my history of posts on this and other sites, you will see I often report on my experiences with various suppliers of firearms equipment. Among those companies and individuals with whom I have only excellent experiences I would list Don Stith, Russ Haydon, Steve Earle, J&P Products, Shadetree Engineering and Accuracy, SEB, Kelbly, Classic Sporting Arms, Fiocchi, Optics Planet and Champion Shooter Supply. I have read of issues with Bud's Guns but my experience in buying two rifles and other products from Bud's has been trouble free.

PS: I tried to buy from either Bruno or Killough. Both were out of stock. Then Killough had what I want in stock before Bruno, so that is why I bought from Killough, rather than Bruno. No other reason.

Jim Pag
01-31-2015, 06:45 PM
This is my first experience with Dan Killough. I always assume any business is honest and reliable unless experience proves otherwise. Now Dan has promised to send me a scope without the oil leak issue. I will take him at his word.

I did not mean to demean any other supplier. I have no experience with Bruno's. If you follow my history of posts on this and other sites, you will see I often report on my experiences with various suppliers of firearms equipment. Among those companies and individuals with whom I have only excellent experiences I would list Don Stith, Russ Haydon, Steve Earle, J&P Products, Shadetree Engineering and Accuracy, SEB, Kelbly, Classic Sporting Arms, Fiocchi, Optics Planet and Champion Shooter Supply. I have read of issues with Bud's Guns but my experience in buying two rifles and other products from Bud's has been trouble free.

PS: I tried to buy from either Bruno or Killough. Both were out of stock. Then Killough had what I want in stock before Bruno, so that is why I bought from Killough, rather than Bruno. No other reason.

I'm not saying anything bad about Dan, whether he's honest, or he'll stand by what he sells, ect, that's not the point. Your not getting the point I am trying to make. None of these scopes that were sent to people had this issue when they first received them. I sure each and every person when they got their scope no matter where they bought it looked thru the scope to see how clear it looked and then when mounting it to the rifle. Dan can look through each and every scope to see if there bad, but It seems that when they were used a bit that's when the issue arose. So looking thru the scope to make sure that it looks good before he ships it isn't going to solve the problem.

Slowshot
01-31-2015, 07:56 PM
I'm not saying anything bad about Dan, whether he's honest, or he'll stand by what he sells, ect, that's not the point. Your not getting the point I am trying to make. None of these scopes that were sent to people had this issue when they first received them. I sure each and every person when they got their scope no matter where they bought it looked thru the scope to see how clear it looked and then when mounting it to the rifle. Dan can look through each and every scope to see if there bad, but It seems that when they were used a bit that's when the issue arose. So looking thru the scope to make sure that it looks good before he ships it isn't going to solve the problem.


I did not misunderstand you.

If Dan Killough says he has tested the scope he is selling me and assures me it will not leak lubricant on the lens, so I am taking him at his word. If it proves to be not true, I will be very disappointed. After all, I wrote and called him on the phone about my order. In both my phone call and my e-mail, I made it clear what possible defect concerns me. Dan clearly implied he is aware of the issue. He also clearly assured me the scope he is sending me will be free of defects. Until proven otherwise, I take him at his word.

I should give myself away and admit to me a man's (or a woman's) word is his or her most valuable possession. It certainly is mine. Each of the businesses I listed in my previous reply has never failed to deliver as promised. That is my bottom line. I expect people to live up to what they promise.

Dan wrote back:
"Yes, I am aware of the problem, and we have checked these to ensure they are good."

That's it. It is true or not. I see no disclaimer.

As I said, I will report on the results of real life testing of the scope on my BAT 222 as soon as I get it to the range and back. It shipped on Thursday and should arrive in time for my regular Wednesday visit to Tacoma Rifle and Revolver.

PS: Dan Killough wrote back to thank me for telling him about the reports of lube leakage I read on this site and for posting his reply.

KEITH MYERS
01-31-2015, 07:58 PM
I purchased both of mine from Dan. They have no problems what so ever.

Steelhead1
02-02-2015, 08:37 AM
Yet!

Slowshot
02-02-2015, 03:45 PM
Yet!

Lets just hope the XRs do not suffer from the wandering parallax that I have read owners of Leupold side focus benchrest scopes have experienced. I have two Nikon side focus scopes and just sold my Zeiss Conquest side focus scope. None of those three scopes have any issues with parallax stability or any other issue. I also have read that Leupold claims to have solved the 'backlash' issue. I assume Weaver can similarly solve any problems with the XR. If Nikon made a 36X single magnification target scope with side focus, I would have bought one of those. I have read that Weaver has been asking owners who have problems to return the scopes for a full refund.

As to "yet", the reports I have read of oil on the lens have all said the problem showed up on the first day at the range. My first day at the range will be the day after my scope arrives. As I have said, I will give a full report on my results.

tim
02-02-2015, 08:30 PM
Lets just hope the XRs do not suffer from the wandering parallax that I have read owners of Leupold side focus benchrest scopes have experienced. I have two Nikon side focus scopes and just sold my Zeiss Conquest side focus scope. None of those three scopes have any issues with parallax stability or any other issue. I also have read that Leupold claims to have solved the 'backlash' issue. I assume Weaver can similarly solve any problems with the XR. If Nikon made a 36X single magnification target scope with side focus, I would have bought one of those. I have read that Weaver has been asking owners who have problems to return the scopes for a full refund.

As to "yet", the reports I have read of oil on the lens have all said the problem showed up on the first day at the range. My first day at the range will be the day after my scope arrives. As I have said, I will give a full report on my results.

There is no "wandering parallax" issue with the LCS scopes, it was a POI issue with the early series......long since rectified.

Slowshot
02-03-2015, 03:54 PM
I used the wrong words. What I have read are two issues with the Leupold side focus scopes. One is backlash (that is what I meant by wandering crosshairs). The other is a mismatch between focus and parallax. Neither of these cannot be overcome by careful procedure when focusing. I have read of these issues primarily on the website acurateshooter,com.

The same site still rates the Leupold Competition Series very highly:

Leupold Competition Series 35x, 40x, 45x
Pros: The best resolution, brightness, contrast, and largest exit pupil of any high-magnification fixed-power scope you can buy. Better lens geometry and clarity than any zoom. Turret covers and screw-in lens caps standard. Very good warranty service, not limited to original owner. 30mm tube offers more elevation adjustment than older 1″ Leupold Target Scopes or B&L 36x.
Cons: Unstable wire reticle may require after-market modification. Leupold is shipping too many with off-axis cross-hairs–look before you buy. Lash issue with side focus.
OVERALL: BEST FIXED-POWER SCOPE under $1200. Even with its flaws, still the best fixed-power competition scope you can buy, short of the $2150 March. Leupold needs to do some technical re-design and ensure the scopes ship with plumb cross-hairs.

tim
02-03-2015, 05:50 PM
Friend, with all due respect, i have zero idea what you are referring to. I have never heard of the term "wandering crosshairs" , it doesn't exist. Stop assuming what you read on internet forums to be corecct. I also have never heard that LCS scopes have uncentered X-hairs. I shoot with these things in IBS and IR 50/50 matches and own them, and have from the beginnng as well as a couple Marches, Weavers, Nightforces, and everything else. Its certainly possible for the odd scope to escape with something but we are into the 3 rd generation with the LCS and other than the gen one POI issues they have been very reliable.
As far as the Weaver XR series, it appears there os a design issue and production has stopped pending a production fix at some indeterminate time. They do not yet know if its design flaw, o-ring failure, etc.
They are likely working the roblem in Japan. Domestic tech guys have no info as to whether they enen WILL come back into production.
Weaver USA does not get much info in this regard.
When I ended up acquiring mine from Killough's in June, Weaver had zero knowledge of the scope and was unaware they wete in the business of selling them.
I assume, with the R&D and production costs involved, they are unlikely to abandon production entirely.
This, again, concerns only the XR 46X that I am aware of and have researched.

Slowshot
02-04-2015, 07:42 PM
As I said, I used the wrong term. If you go to accurateshooter.com and do a search on scopes, you will find the article I quoted in my last reply.

Now the good news: my new T-36 XR arrived today. I will get to to the range next Wednesday. I plan on shooting at least 50 rounds with it on that trip. I will report on the results then. Until then, I have nothing more to say about the Weaver XR or the Leupold Competition Series side focus scopes. I have never owned one and all I know about them is what I have read in reviews such as the Accurate Shooter review. If you are not familiar with the site, here is a link to the home page: http://www.accurateshooter.com/

Slowshot
02-17-2015, 07:18 PM
Well, I finally got to the range today and fired 25 rounds with the new Weaver on my BAT 222. Everything seems to be just fine. I saw no evidence of lubricant leaking on the lens. I will be out again soon. I will report here after 100 rounds. That should be enough shooting to see if there will be any issues with the scope. So far, it works exactly like I expected.

Travelor
02-18-2015, 07:45 AM
I just received my refund check for my XR scope from Federal Cartridge Company. Anyone can make a mistake, but it takes a great company to admit it and stand behind the admission with money.

Thanks Weaver. I will remember this.

Dusty Stevens
02-18-2015, 12:45 PM
Ive always thought weaver was a good company. Never used their fixed power scopes but am glad they produce a cheaper option for people when they first start out and have to buy everything at once.

Steelhead1
02-18-2015, 06:06 PM
I rceived a call from one of the posters here 2 days ago and one of his purchased from Dan now has the droplets on the lens! I shot mine today and it is actually getting worse. I am hoping I will be able to use it in Vegas next month, but its not looking to promising! I also looked through my neighbors today and he also has the droplets!

Slowshot
02-18-2015, 06:59 PM
I rceived a call from one of the posters here 2 days ago and one of his purchased from Dan now has the droplets on the lens! I shot mine today and it is actually getting worse. I am hoping I will be able to use it in Vegas next month, but its not looking to promising! I also looked through my neighbors today and he also has the droplets!

I just got off the phone with tech support at Weaver. I also wrote to them. Here is the complete text of the e-mail reply I got from Weaver:

"Hello,

We have found an isolated problem with only the T46XR. We have not had any issues with the T36XR scopes.

Weaver "

When I called Weaver, the same tech person who e-mailed me spoke with me. He again assured me there is no problem with the T-36XR side focus Weavers. The problem is with the T-46XR side focus Weavers only.

Steelhead1
02-19-2015, 02:03 AM
Slowshot,
You are correct, the only XR series I own is the 46, and is and was the only scope I have been referring to. I am not interested in the 36 or the 24 power scopes in the xR series! All my others are Leupold 36X and never have any problems with them because I send them in annually for check test and clean. Since i saw a 46 XR at the score nationals and priced under $1000.00 i figured it was worth a shot. In the past I have owned 2 Weaver 36 and found them reliable, but given the choice between Leupold and Weaver I will always choose Leupold simply due to their warranty! They will service their scopes no matter weather your the first owner or 5th owner and thats worth my loyalty to the brand. If Weaver doesn't come up with a fix in a couple of months I will send it back and take the money and put it into another Leupold.

Slowshot
02-19-2015, 01:24 PM
Slowshot,
You are correct, the only XR series I own is the 46, and is and was the only scope I have been referring to. I am not interested in the 36 or the 24 power scopes in the xR series! All my others are Leupold 36X and never have any problems with them because I send them in annually for check test and clean. Since i saw a 46 XR at the score nationals and priced under $1000.00 i figured it was worth a shot. In the past I have owned 2 Weaver 36 and found them reliable, but given the choice between Leupold and Weaver I will always choose Leupold simply due to their warranty! They will service their scopes no matter weather your the first owner or 5th owner and thats worth my loyalty to the brand. If Weaver doesn't come up with a fix in a couple of months I will send it back and take the money and put it into another Leupold.

If it was me, I would be contacting Weaver today, either to get a replacement scope that has been fixed or to start the procedure to get your money back.

My situation is a bit different than yours. I bought the side focus Weaver specifically due to a disability of mine that a side focus scope overcomes. The bad news is, to pay for the Weaver, I sold my Leupold BR 36 that was bumped to 50X. Having tried the Weaver, I can say, I would rather have kept the Leupold, even though I need assistance in dialing out parallax error with the Leupold. The view through the Weaver is washed out (lacking contrast) as compared to the Leupold I sold.

D Zack
02-19-2015, 07:55 PM
Called weaver today to check on my scope and they are also going to buy mine back. They are also reimbursing me for the cost of shipping when I sent it back to them. Technician told me it is only the 46x that has the problem and they are working on it.

ZACK

RJM
04-10-2015, 01:19 PM
I bought and XR 46X last summer & was happy with it all last season. Pulled it out today to try before a match tomorrow & there are the oil spots. It looks like someone shot the target with a load of #8 shot! A call to Weaver gave me a return number & they buying it back.

I wouldn't have thought it would happen just sitting over the winter. So it doesn't appear to be due to recoil or any rough use.

Regards,
Ron

Fred J
04-10-2015, 02:19 PM
I haven't looked through mine since last year. It was fine then. I'll be going to the range to do some testing, and I'll check it very close.

Steelhead1
04-12-2015, 07:20 PM
I finally had to call them, because mine is so bad that you can barely see the dot! The told me to box it up and they gave UPS a call tag and they stopped by and picked it up. They are buying it back cost plus shipping. Now the quandry of what to replace it with, maybe a Leupold 45X competition!

shinny
04-13-2015, 08:37 AM
I have been following this post with interest.

I have (3) of the 46x that were purchased between July - December 2014.

None of mine are exhibiting any problems, as a matter of fact I checked them very carefully yesterday and all are perfectly clear.

Got me to thinking........................As I store my rifles horizontally, rather than vertically, wonder if this cold have anything to do with the problem?

Any thoughts welcomed.

Steelhead1
04-13-2015, 11:25 AM
Shinny,
well not sure if storage method is having a positive outcome for your scopes, but anything is possible. what I have found is the more its shot the worse the problem gets. The problem is that other than this issue that keeps popping up, its a nice scope. I would think that weaver would want to fix this problem quickly rather than buying them back! When a company keeps telling you that they are working on a fix for months and the fix never comes you start to wonder if they are really interested in fixing the problem! How difficult could a fix be, after all they introduced 3 new scopes in the XR line and the other 2 don't have the problem! Good luck with yours, and hopefully you will be the only guy thats has these when the buy back is done.

RJM
04-14-2015, 09:02 PM
I have been following this post with interest.

I have (3) of the 46x that were purchased between July - December 2014.

None of mine are exhibiting any problems, as a matter of fact I checked them very carefully yesterday and all are perfectly clear.

Got me to thinking........................As I store my rifles horizontally, rather than vertically, wonder if this cold have anything to do with the problem?

Any thoughts welcomed.

Shinny,
Nope, mine was stored horizontally & developed the spots just sitting in the off season. Mike Suhie's is still good & has been shot more than mine, so it's not just a matter of position or number of rounds.
Regards,
Ron

liljoe
04-18-2015, 08:50 PM
I just checked my scope this morning and it has the spots on the lens now. It was in perfect condition last fall when I shot it, and was stored in the box. I will have to email them and see what I need to do.


Oh well it was a nice scope, my only complaint is that it is kinda heavy for a LV gun.

Joe Hynes

DaveT
04-18-2015, 10:29 PM
I want to buy one of these scopes, any positive news from Weaver about a fix to this problem on future scopes?

virg
04-19-2015, 01:40 PM
The problem with the old steel "T Series" scopes. If they were subjected to the least amount of heat (like warming in the sun) the O rings inside would fog up the lens interior. The fastest solution was to send them to Bill Ackerman who would clean them up for $60 and send them back. The O rings would only out gas once, so his fix was good for the life of the scope. I had a T6, T10, and a T16. The problem occurred in every one of them. If it wasn't for the absolute repeatability of the windage and elevation adjustments on these scopes, I think Weaver would have lost the market.

Virg

Slowshot
04-19-2015, 02:08 PM
The problem with the old steel "T Series" scopes. If they were subjected to the least amount of heat (like warming in the sun) the O rings inside would fog up the lens interior. The fastest solution was to send them to Bill Ackerman who would clean them up for $60 and send them back. The O rings would only out gas once, so his fix was good for the life of the scope. I had a T6, T10, and a T16. The problem occurred in every one of them. If it wasn't for the absolute repeatability of the windage and elevation adjustments on these scopes, I think Weaver would have lost the market.

Virg

I have owned quite a few of the older Weaver T-Series scopes (all bought used). I have never experienced any issues with them. I still have a T-6 and a T-36. If I did not need side focus, those two would cover all of my target shooting needs.

By the way, I have now fired 100 rounds through my BAT rifle with the T-XR 36. No problems so far but I have to admit the Leupold BR 36 I sold to pay for the Weaver had better contrast, quite noticeable at 100 yards.

glp
04-20-2015, 09:30 AM
I have owned quite a few of the older Weaver T-Series scopes (all bought used). I have never experienced any issues with them. I still have a T-6 and a T-36. If I did not need side focus, those two would cover all of my target shooting needs.

By the way, I have now fired 100 rounds through my BAT rifle with the T-XR 36. No problems so far but I have to admit the Leupold BR 36 I sold to pay for the Weaver had better contrast, quite noticeable at 100 yards.

I had 6 Weaver t series 36X scopes. All had pretty good optics, but every single one of them eventually developed problems with the ability to hold point of impact. Weaver went through so many different owners 10 or so years ago that getting any warranty satisfaction was sometimes difficult. I tried Leup Competition scopes and had the same POI issues. I switched to a frozen competition in Brackney rings and have been satisfied since doing that. The other issue with the older Leup 36 1" tube scopes is they were 1/4 min clicks. Not an issue in group but a big one in score BR. Of course the ability to hold POI is tops. --Greg

RJM
04-28-2015, 09:50 PM
I received my check for the purchase price, postage, & postage back to weaver. I compliment them on the service & I'm now deciding whether to order another XR 46X to replace the original one.
Regards,
Ron

tim
04-29-2015, 03:31 PM
Given that they have no fix for the problem, why on earth would you do that?

Slowshot
05-02-2015, 01:07 PM
I had 6 Weaver t series 36X scopes. All had pretty good optics, but every single one of them eventually developed problems with the ability to hold point of impact. Weaver went through so many different owners 10 or so years ago that getting any warranty satisfaction was sometimes difficult. I tried Leup Competition scopes and had the same POI issues. I switched to a frozen competition in Brackney rings and have been satisfied since doing that. The other issue with the older Leup 36 1" tube scopes is they were 1/4 min clicks. Not an issue in group but a big one in score BR. Of course the ability to hold POI is tops. --Greg

That is odd. I have owned four T-36s. All had 1/8 min. clicks and only one ever needed service. I contacted Weaver. The guy who answered the phone had me send it in at no cost to me. He even sent me a shipping label. That was about five years ago. All of my POI issues are due to failures on my part, not my equipment. I have to admit buying a SEB Neo rest has greatly improved my POI issues far more than I expected. That and finally learning proper front and rear rest setup techniques.

By the way, I am so pleased with my (silver) XR T-36 that I am trading one of my Nikon Side Focus 6-18X40mm Buckmasters + some cash for a second (black) one to mount to my Ruger No. 1V (222 Rem.) I had a T-36 on my previous Ruger No. 1V (220 Swift). With that setup, I achieved 1/2 MOA accuracy out to 200 yards (the longest range available to me where I live).

As I have said, I need side focus due to a life long disability. Other than that, I see no reason why anyone else would bother with side focus scopes.

RJM
05-02-2015, 03:30 PM
Given that they have no fix for the problem, why on earth would you do that?

Because I really liked the scope, not all of the have the problem, weaver service was great, & when it went bad the made me completely whole.
Ron

Steelhead1
05-04-2015, 10:03 PM
RJM
The XR scope has been pulled from the market, all of the ones I have actually seen and looked through have failed. Lester Bruno, and Killoughs is no longer selling them! Just got off the phone less than an hour ago with a friend that had 4 fail, 2 returned to Lester and 2 heis waiting on payments for, he told me Lester has 16 he returned and is waiting for payment on. Until the problem is resolved your not going to be sucessful in your quest to buy another one that is defect free.

Fred J
05-05-2015, 12:06 AM
I have one of these scopes, but it appears to be ok. Is there a time limit to return these for a full refund?

Steelhead1
05-05-2015, 10:03 AM
Fred,
I don't know if Weaver has imposed a time limit, the only criteria is that the oil spots are present, they will buy it back! I don't know how much you have shot the rifle that your scope is on, but the more you shoot it the worse it gets. It is not a matter of if it will fail, its a matter of when it will fail!

skeetlee
05-05-2015, 05:37 PM
they are not all bad. I know of two that are fine. This isn't to say they wont go bad? That possibility is a real one. So far though my friend is extremely pleased. Lee

Dick Grosbier
05-05-2015, 09:24 PM
That is odd. I have owned four T-36s. All had 1/8 min. clicks and only one ever needed service.

You were lucky I have owned 6 and 5 eventually had issues. They are still the best bang for your buck in a basic BR scope

RJM
05-05-2015, 10:25 PM
A friend that ordered his XR46 after mine also has the oil dot problem, so back it goes!
savet06 has one that's still going at last report.

I may order an XR36, or go with a Leupold 46x. The 1/16" dot was nice, but my old eyes might be happier with a larger dot.
Regards,
Ron

Lee Martin
05-06-2015, 10:04 AM
Not that I'm looking to get one, but is this inherent to just the 46x's or the 36x's too?

-Lee
www.singleactions.com

Steelhead1
05-06-2015, 11:01 AM
Lee Martin,
This problem is isolated to the XR 46 only, the new side focus XR 24 &36 are not included. There may be a few people with XR 46 scopes that do not have the problem, but that will be a short lived situation, as this is a design flaw that exist in all of the XR 46. I really would like to see Weaver resolve this problem because its a nice clear scope with a decent price point. I will buy another Leupold as soon as I finish up my new rifle, you just can't beat the Leupold warranty, but I was willing to try another Weaver, and it did not work out for now.

skeetlee
05-06-2015, 04:18 PM
I probably wouldn't ever buy one myself. Just about every day of the week you can buy a nice used Leupold 45 comp for the same money as a new Weaver. Now, if weaver continues with this scope and they fix this issue, maybe after some time, the used market on one of these weavers will make them more appealing to me. Lee

Steelhead1
05-06-2015, 06:48 PM
Lee,
Thats what I'm going to settle on is the Leupold 45! Between Leupold, Nightforce, and March, these are being shot with the most sucess!

Slowshot
05-07-2015, 12:53 PM
Lee,
Thats what I'm going to settle on is the Leupold 45! Between Leupold, Nightforce, and March, these are being shot with the most sucess!

One reason why I did not but a Leupold 45X is that I have read reports of issues with side focus Leupolds not holding stable parallax settings (lash). There has also been a problem with off axis crosshairs. Here is what was reported on Accurate Shooter:

Leupold Competition Series 35x, 40x, 45x
Pros: The best resolution, brightness, contrast, and largest exit pupil of any high-magnification fixed-power scope you can buy. Better lens geometry and clarity than any zoom. Turret covers and screw-in lens caps standard. Very good warranty service, not limited to original owner. 30mm tube offers more elevation adjustment than older 1″ Leupold Target Scopes or B&L 36x.
Cons: Unstable wire reticle may require after-market modification. Leupold is shipping too many with off-axis cross-hairs–look before you buy. Lash issue with side focus.
OVERALL: BEST FIXED-POWER SCOPE under $1200. Even with its flaws, still the best fixed-power competition scope you can buy, short of the $2150 March. Leupold needs to do some technical re-design and ensure the scopes ship with plumb cross-hairs.

But then I have owned several scopes that had off-axis crosshairs, including a Weaver T-36 that I sent to Weaver for a fix. I bought the Weaver XR T-36 for several reasons, including budget issues. I cannot pay $1000+ only to find problems that require sending the NIB scope for repairs.

As to other fixed power scopes, the March scope has gotten the best reviews of any:

March 40×52 BR
Pros: Benchmark level resolution, lack of distortion and brightness out to the edges. Noticeably superior and brighter at the edges of image to the Leupold Comp BR scopes. Tracking reliability may be the best ever offered to the public in a scope with active internal adjustments. Many of the top benchresters have switched to the March because, so far, it holds zero like nothing else. For long-range use the March 40x can often resolve 6mm bullet holes at 600 yards when viewing conditions are very good. No scope out of the box does a better job at that (until the Schmidt & Bender 12-50×56 arrives in 2008).
Cons: Extremely expensive. Kelbly’s is currently the one and only supplier in USA. Long-term reliablity is a question mark. No USA service facility.
OVERALL: BEST FIXED-POWER SCOPE, bar none. Very bright, very sharp, reasonable weight, excellent image quality.

If some shooters are getting better results with the Leupold, I would say that other factors, including load development, the wind reading skill of the shooter and other high end equipment are probably cause, rather than the scope. I know my SEB NEO rest has caused a greater obvious improvement in my results than any scope ever did.

Once again, other than someone with a disability like mine, that makes side focus for me a necessity, I cannot see any advantage for side focus scopes. If I could adjust parallax without side focus, I would still own the Leupold BR 36 (bumped to 50X) that I sold to but the Weaver XR T-36. All of my best results are still with that old Leupold.

Steelhead1
05-07-2015, 06:07 PM
Slowshot,
I am not sure were you come up with your statistics, but the Leupold Competition is in its 3rd generation, and the few intial problems it had have been corrected! If and when you start going to short range benchrest match's, you will quicly realize that there are a bunch of shooters that are and have been very successful with Leupolds past and present models! March and Nightforce are very exceptioal scopes both optically& mechanically! That is why they command the price they do, i base my opions and findings at the range in matchs and during discussions with actual shooters, not from people that don't attend regular short range benchrest match's.

Lee Martin
05-07-2015, 06:19 PM
Yep....check the equipment lists for major short range events and you'll see a lot of Leupolds. I went the March route but wouldn't hesitate to buy a Comp. My dad has a couple 36x's and they've held up beautifully.

-Lee
www.singleactions.com

bob finger
05-09-2015, 12:26 PM
A month ago my XR 46 was fine. Today I put that rifle on the blocks and the entire scope is covered in spots. Looks like Weaver will be buying back another one. bob

tim
05-09-2015, 01:43 PM
One reason why I did not but a Leupold 45X is that I have read reports of issues with side focus Leupolds not holding stable parallax settings (lash). There has also been a problem with off axis crosshairs. Here is what was reported on Accurate Shooter:

Leupold Competition Series 35x, 40x, 45x
Pros: The best resolution, brightness, contrast, and largest exit pupil of any high-magnification fixed-power scope you can buy. Better lens geometry and clarity than any zoom. Turret covers and screw-in lens caps standard. Very good warranty service, not limited to original owner. 30mm tube offers more elevation adjustment than older 1″ Leupold Target Scopes or B&L 36x.
Cons: Unstable wire reticle may require after-market modification. Leupold is shipping too many with off-axis cross-hairs–look before you buy. Lash issue with side focus.
OVERALL: BEST FIXED-POWER SCOPE under $1200. Even with its flaws, still the best fixed-power competition scope you can buy, short of the $2150 March. Leupold needs to do some technical re-design and ensure the scopes ship with plumb cross-hairs.

But then I have owned several scopes that had off-axis crosshairs, including a Weaver T-36 that I sent to Weaver for a fix. I bought the Weaver XR T-36 for several reasons, including budget issues. I cannot pay $1000+ only to find problems that require sending the NIB scope for repairs.

As to other fixed power scopes, the March scope has gotten the best reviews of any:

March 40×52 BR
Pros: Benchmark level resolution, lack of distortion and brightness out to the edges. Noticeably superior and brighter at the edges of image to the Leupold Comp BR scopes. Tracking reliability may be the best ever offered to the public in a scope with active internal adjustments. Many of the top benchresters have switched to the March because, so far, it holds zero like nothing else. For long-range use the March 40x can often resolve 6mm bullet holes at 600 yards when viewing conditions are very good. No scope out of the box does a better job at that (until the Schmidt & Bender 12-50×56 arrives in 2008).
Cons: Extremely expensive. Kelbly’s is currently the one and only supplier in USA. Long-term reliablity is a question mark. No USA service facility.
OVERALL: BEST FIXED-POWER SCOPE, bar none. Very bright, very sharp, reasonable weight, excellent image quality.

If some shooters are getting better results with the Leupold, I would say that other factors, including load development, the wind reading skill of the shooter and other high end equipment are probably cause, rather than the scope. I know my SEB NEO rest has caused a greater obvious improvement in my results than any scope ever did.

Once again, other than someone with a disability like mine, that makes side focus for me a necessity, I cannot see any advantage for side focus scopes. If I could adjust parallax without side focus, I would still own the Leupold BR 36 (bumped to 50X) that I sold to but the Weaver XR T-36. All of my best results are still with that old Leupold.

Less typing.....more learning about scopes. Posting some BS that some nitwit puts on a forum is foolish. Read a few match reports.
The March's have now been out for years.

Slowshot
05-09-2015, 08:00 PM
Less typing.....more learning about scopes. Posting some BS that some nitwit puts on a forum is foolish. Read a few match reports.
The March's have now been out for years.

The information in my reply is not something I wrote, it comes from a truly useful site. I just copied and pasted the information from the long detailed article on target scopes (see the links below) I found on my favorite shooting site that is actually reliable.

Obviously, you are not familiar with accurateshooter.com. Though they have a forum, that is not where I got the information I posted. In fact, I am unlikely to post any information based on some forum member's unsubstantiated opinions.

The main site (not the forum) is the only site I have found operated by professionals who have real world data to back up their reviews and comments. It was there that I learned about SEB rests for example. It was their information on the SEB NEO that helped me decide to buy one. It proved to be exactly as they described it, the easiest to use and most stable rest I have ever seen. Now everyone at my home club Tacoma Rifle and Revolver who has seen and felt it's smooth repeatable operation wants one. It is expensive and requires a year wait but it is well worth the wait and the cash.

Their cartridge description section is the most detailed I have ever seen:
http://www.accurateshooter.com/category/cartridge-guides/

Here is where I got the information, I copied, regarding scopes:
http://www.accurateshooter.com/optics/target-scopes/

My other main source of information on all shooting equipment is my friend, Russ Haydon. Unlike many of the ignorant but opinionated idiots, who write their useless information, Accurate Shooter and Russ Haydon, along with other truly experienced BR competition and varmint shooters I have met regularly give me useful information that I share when it seems appropriate.

By the way, I am so satisfied with the Weaver XR T-36 I bought for the BAT action 222 Rem. rifle Russ built for me that I (just today) traded one of my Nikon side focus 6-18X40mm Buckmasters + some cash for a second Weaver XR T-36 for the Ruger 1V in 222 Rem. that Regan Nonneman is putting together for me right now.

Steelhead1
05-10-2015, 11:13 AM
slowshot,
Since the folks here have no beneficial information that you can utilize why don't you just go over to Accurate shooter? By the way the gent that runs that sight is a yuppie lawyer from Ca., so much for a professional shooter!Why don't you tell us how you finished in lets say your last 3 matches? If you were really a benchrest shooter and listened to the wisdom of Russ Haydon, and you were a newbe to benchrest shooting, you would have a 6ppc. not a .222! If you attended regular benchrest matches you wouldn't have had to read about Seb rests on the internet, he has been making rest for about 10 years! I just looked at a well attended match result from Dec.2014, 37 Competitors, 15 Leupolds, 7 Weavers, 7 Night Force, 6 March, 1 Sightron! Instead of relying on some pre printed data on Accurate shooter, lets see you do a few matches, and you will quickly figure out that the information your posting about scopes is wrong! Right now all you appear to be is a keyboard commando, that bought a custom action and had a top notch benchrest shooter build you a gun(in the wrong caliber) probably because you were too hard headed to listen to Russ, and now wants to be an expert on all things, Benchrest. Have you joined the NBRSA yet? if you do you will be able to view match reports and equipment list's. I really hope you come to the 4th of July Sniper King match at Tacoma, and show us all how to shoot, looking forward to it how about you!

Wilbur
05-10-2015, 01:58 PM
Easy now Yall!

Slowshot
05-10-2015, 02:06 PM
slowshot,
Since the folks here have no beneficial information that you can utilize why don't you just go over to Accurate shooter? By the way the gent that runs that sight is a yuppie lawyer from Ca., so much for a professional shooter!Why don't you tell us how you finished in lets say your last 3 matches? If you were really a benchrest shooter and listened to the wisdom of Russ Haydon, and you were a newbe to benchrest shooting, you would have a 6ppc. not a .222! If you attended regular benchrest matches you wouldn't have had to read about Seb rests on the internet, he has been making rest for about 10 years! I just looked at a well attended match result from Dec.2014, 37 Competitors, 15 Leupolds, 7 Weavers, 7 Night Force, 6 March, 1 Sightron! Instead of relying on some pre printed data on Accurate shooter, lets see you do a few matches, and you will quickly figure out that the information your posting about scopes is wrong! Right now all you appear to be is a keyboard commando, that bought a custom action and had a top notch benchrest shooter build you a gun(in the wrong caliber) probably because you were too hard headed to listen to Russ, and now wants to be an expert on all things, Benchrest. Have you joined the NBRSA yet? if you do you will be able to view match reports and equipment list's. I really hope you come to the 4th of July Sniper King match at Tacoma, and show us all how to shoot, looking forward to it how about you!

I think you have missed my point. First of all, I am not an expert on anything, except building motorcycle controls for disabled riders. Second, I listen to experts all the time. I read the information on sites like this to gather information from different sources. While remaining respectful of more knowledgeable and experienced shooters, I share any information I have gathered, from reliable sources when it seems appropriate. The information I share is intended to stimulate discussion, not end it. If you would prefer that I do not share the information I gather from different sources, fine. I am getting bored with these long discussions that wander away from the original topic anyhow. Weren't we talking about the Weaver XR series of scopes?

Because I am an old guy late into shooting, I do not expect to win anything. I am just having fun shooting and learning about firearms. Russ and I discussed cartridge options. In the end he suggested and I agreed 222 Rem. fits my intended use more than 6 PPC. While I originally planned on getting seriously into Centerfire BR, I came to realize my eyes and my budget are not strong enough to get serious like you obviously are. Correct me if I am wrong but I understand all I need to convert my BAT rifle from 222 Rem. to 6 PPC is a 6 PPC bolt from BAT Machine and a barrel. Am I wrong?

If you wish to meet me, when you get to Tacoma, write me a PM and I would be glad to meet you. You are obviously a lot more experienced and skilled than I could ever be. You might have a chance to chew me out in person, or decide I am not such a know it all as you assume. As to my plans on future active competition, I have none. I have discovered that competition does not interest me any more. While I enjoy learning about the sport and find load development, reading wind and the other skills needed to shoot well, both challenging and fun, I am long past the age where I need to compare myself with others to have a good time. I began shooting very few years ago as something new to learn and as a way to meet new people my age, now that I am retired and have the time. If I type long posts, it is because I have so many questions and try to bring up information that seems contradictory for clarification by the more knowledgeable shooters such as you.

PS: I am rather surprised to see your list has 6 March and 7 Nightforce scopes. At their premium cost, I would not expect them to be so common. I have seen a only one Nightforce at TRRC and I have never seen a March in person. As I mentioned, my best two scopes ever were two Leuopold BR 36 scopes. I sold both because I cannot adjust the AO without assistance on a scope that does not have side focus and that is why I am trying the affordable Weaver XR-T36.

One more note. If anyone actually read the article that I quoted, the author did not exactly trash the Leupold. He said, in his opinion, it is the best BR scope other than the far more expensive March and well worth the cost. Once again I quote: OVERALL: BEST FIXED-POWER SCOPE under $1200. Even with its flaws, still the best fixed-power competition scope you can buy, short of the $2150 March.

adamsgt
05-10-2015, 04:28 PM
slowshot, I'm also an old fart late to the BR game and this web site. I have found the "ignore list" to be a valuable tool to avoid being tempted to read posts from some obnoxious know-it-alls. Give it a try.

Steelhead1
05-10-2015, 05:29 PM
Jerry,
I started the thread for people to be aware of a problem that exists with a particular scope, all of my response' s have been positive and I would hope helpful! This gentlemen has never owned one of the XR 46 series of scopes although at first he was thinking of buying one. Then he started posting reports of scopes like the Leupold Competition, march and Nightforce, scopes which you and I both know perform extremly well! How do I know that you know, because you loadednext to me at the Cactus a few years ago, so I know your a shooter! I am not a young guy, trying to be a smart A$$, just trying to be helpful until someone that is NOT a Benchrest shooter starts blathering about which scopes are better than other scope, which he has never ever owned or shot!

Slowshot
05-10-2015, 07:27 PM
One last comment and then I am done with this thread.

I do not make up anything. Either I report personal experiences or I quote resources that seem reliable and seek comments from the experienced. On more than one occasion I have asked very specific questions on this and other sites. Frequently I start my question with these words: "Does anyone here have experience with...?" As often as not many responses start with, "I have never tried one of those but...." I generally find those replies unhelpful. Often I post links to the source of information I am trying to verify. Just as often other members respond to that which I have posted as though the information was original to me. These replies show the person replying either did not read my question, did not understand that I am quoting another source or just wants to argue.

For the past few months, I have been shooting every Wednesday, with two very experienced shooters, who act as unpaid instructors for me. Most days we shoot either rimfire or centerfire BR at TRRC. Other days we head up into the mountains to shoot. Without the free instructions I have received, I probably could not hit a barn door at 50 yards. Though I am not a competitor, I actually shoot pretty decent groups for a novice and have managed a few pretty decent rimfire point scores. I have attended a few matches, as an observer, not a shooter. I am very impressed with the skills I see displayed at those matches. I have learned a lot just by watching truly skilled shooters. I will continue to do so, though I have come to realize I could never be competitive for several reasons. My BAT gun was intended as a learning tool and that is all. It has taught me a lot.

As to the Weaver XR scopes, I never intended to buy the 46X version. In another thread, I asked about the 36X before buying. I now own two. One for my BAT gun and one for my Ruger No, 1 (also 222 Rem.) that I plan to shoot in the mountains, off a shooting stick, at ranges 200 yards and beyond. I seem to have antagonized some by reporting mixed reviews that led me to shy away from specific equipment. Sorry if I upset anyone, I am just a reporter on this and was seeking counter responses from those with real world experience.

I do not understand why Steelhead1 became so angry. Do I need to begin every sentence with, "I am a novice shooter and this is what I read, or this is what I was told?"

Oh well, that's enough. I think I will just keep asking questions and researching through many sources. That's how I have learned nearly everything I know.

Steelhead1
05-10-2015, 08:11 PM
Slowshot,
I am not angry at what you posted, I am frustrated that you take for granted everything that you read over on accurate shooter! I looked at what you read, heres why I do not unsterstand, 1. Your belief in that article that has no author! Who wrote it, 2. The information is generic in nature! 3. It appears it was written by a scope company thats competeing for sales! 4. How long ago was it written? Now I would never buy a scope based on the article, I want the opportunity to go to a match and look through a few and then decide! I will probably never buy a March, unless I hit the lottery, I have looked through a half a dozen Marchs and the higher power ones seemed dark to me, but they have no Issues as to repeatabilty when you start turning the knobs! Nightforce is a fantastic scope, but they weigh more so harder to use on a LV gun! You would be aware of this stuff if you shot regularly. Thats great that you have a couple of mentors helping you along, i am glad that you have this opportunity at this time in your life.
In your previous post you mentioned chewing you out in person, thats not who I am, or how I handle meeting new people!

Fretka
05-10-2015, 11:09 PM
For what it is worth a BIG problem with camera lenses (including $10K Canons) is the internal growth of mold/fungus on the lens surfaces. Most likely what these scopes are experiencing.

adamsgt
05-11-2015, 12:00 AM
Jerry,
I started the thread for people to be aware of a problem that exists with a particular scope, all of my response' s have been positive and I would hope helpful! This gentlemen has never owned one of the XR 46 series of scopes although at first he was thinking of buying one. Then he started posting reports of scopes like the Leupold Competition, march and Nightforce, scopes which you and I both know perform extremly well! How do I know that you know, because you loadednext to me at the Cactus a few years ago, so I know your a shooter! I am not a young guy, trying to be a smart A$$, just trying to be helpful until someone that is NOT a Benchrest shooter starts blathering about which scopes are better than other scope, which he has never ever owned or shot!

Well, I do own five Leupold Competition 45Xs and my most recent purchase is a Nightforce Completion 15-55X. I'd have to say that I don't have enough lifetime left to hone my shooting skills to the point that just using a March scope would make the difference in my scores to any significant degree. The Leupolds are just fine.

I understand your feelings when you think someone is just parroting misinformation, no matter how well intentioned. But we don't always have to call them out on it. I think most of the guys here know better and would not be misinformed on this. Also, sometimes when you're a relatively new guy in a group you want to be accepted and say things to cover your ignorance. I've been guilty of that in the past. Perhaps a gentler response and milder rebuff would elicit better behavior. Now I know that there are some people that you can't treat that way because they have a track record of loud mouthed arrogance that speaks for itself. We know how to deal with those.

DaveT
05-11-2015, 08:54 AM
Well said adamsgt +1

Wilbur
05-11-2015, 08:57 AM
Dan came here to begin with for the sole purpose of arguing. We had a big thread or two about it and found that Dan really didn't know how to post on a forum. He turned out fairly well and ended up being a pretty darn good source for a lot of stuff. I wrote that to say this....things change for the good most times.

Slowshot
05-11-2015, 05:17 PM
Well, I do own five Leupold Competition 45Xs and my most recent purchase is a Nightforce Completion 15-55X. I'd have to say that I don't have enough lifetime left to hone my shooting skills to the point that just using a March scope would make the difference in my scores to any significant degree. The Leupolds are just fine.

I understand your feelings when you think someone is just parroting misinformation, no matter how well intentioned. But we don't always have to call them out on it. I think most of the guys here know better and would not be misinformed on this. Also, sometimes when you're a relatively new guy in a group you want to be accepted and say things to cover your ignorance. I've been guilty of that in the past. Perhaps a gentler response and milder rebuff would elicit better behavior. Now I know that there are some people that you can't treat that way because they have a track record of loud mouthed arrogance that speaks for itself. We know how to deal with those.

I did not join this or any other forum to argue with anyone. Nor did I join to spend my days parroting misinformation. When my source of information is an article from a trusted shooting magazine, a friendly gunsmith or a book by a well known writer such as Jack O'Conner, I copy and post what I read and ask for comments from actual users of the equipment. This is how I learn much of what I then try to apply to the real world. When I first posted my reply regarding my most recent scope choice, I made reference to a specific source I often find very detailed and reliable. I mentioned that it made me shy away from specific equipment. I then told what I did buy (a Weaver XR T-36) and said I am pleased with my purchase, particularly at the price. In another reply in this same thread, I commented how satisfied I am with the SEB NEO that I bought for several reasons, one of which was a great review in the same source. Here is that source. Take a look and see if you think it is a junk site: http://www.accurateshooter.com/

Why anyone got his hackles up over that is still mystery to me. To say that one's own real world experience contradicts what was written seems appropriate. To attack another member and call names seems childish.

adamsgt
05-11-2015, 08:18 PM
I did not join this or any other forum to argue with anyone. Nor did I join to spend my days parroting misinformation. When my source of information is an article from a trusted shooting magazine, a friendly gunsmith or a book by a well known writer such as Jack O'Conner, I copy and post what I read and ask for comments from actual users of the equipment. This is how I learn much of what I then try to apply to the real world. When I first posted my reply regarding my most recent scope choice, I made reference to a specific source I often find very detailed and reliable. I mentioned that it made me shy away from specific equipment. I then told what I did buy (a Weaver XR T-36) and said I am pleased with my purchase, particularly at the price. In another reply in this same thread, I commented how satisfied I am with the SEB NEO that I bought for several reasons, one of which was a great review in the same source. Here is that source. Take a look and see if you think it is a junk site: http://www.accurateshooter.com/

Why anyone got his hackles up over that is still mystery to me. To say that one's own real world experience contradicts what was written seems appropriate. To attack another member and call names seems childish.

Perhaps it's the "copy and post" aspect of your method for obtaining information. You're asking the site members to judge a third party's opinion. If you have questions, then ask them outright yourself without involving anyone else. This is about my 7th year in this sport and I'm just now starting to feel a little comfortable in the depth of my knowledge in most aspects of benchrest shooting. However, I frequently encounter issues that leave me puzzled so I come her to ask for information, advice, criticism, and help. I freely confess my ignorance in many areas and endeavor to learn as much as I can from what is offered to me by members on this site. I usually get a lot of help. Sometimes it's difficult to sift through all the opinions but that's the beauty of education. You can learn more from too much information that you can from too little. While sometimes daunting, it's doable.

I noticed that you quoted my post that was a response to someone else, not you. I certainly did not accuse you of "parroting misinformation". I instead, noted that someone could interpret your actions that way and that could explain their response. It's unfortunate that the written word is such a poor vehicle to convey true meaning in a discussion or even an argument. You're missing the crucial elements of tone of voice, body language, and visual expression. So much communication is lost when we can't see or hear the other person during a discussion and this frequently leads to misunderstanding and hurt feelings.

Well, that's my soliloquy for this month and I leave the discussion as I have no more to offer.

Steelhead1
05-11-2015, 08:48 PM
Jerry,
great post, I finally put him on the ignore list!

Slowshot
05-12-2015, 04:18 PM
Your choice. I ignore no one. I carefully read all posts on issues interesting to me. I learn from everyone.