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g n brezinski
12-26-2014, 10:22 PM
I have been looking at the best of the west and gunwerks rifles.the adds say 1000 yard out of the box.my problem is I have not the 7000 $ to buy one all I have is a 700 Remington 300 Winchester mag rifle.now I have a barrel blank in 30 cal but can sell it and buy a 7 mm whitch seems to be what they shoot because of the bullets that are used ,being berger and the nosler brands.usind bench rest technequites I see no reason why I cannot build one of these rifles.am looking at the 1000 yard gunsmiths for this project.
any thoughts on this?
gary b...

Hal
12-26-2014, 10:33 PM
One of my son's freinds bought into the best of the west story and his rifle cost 8,000 .
It's in 300 win.

Hal

Roger T
12-26-2014, 10:54 PM
One of my son's freinds bought into the best of the west story and his rifle cost 8,000 .
It's in 300 win.

Hal And the rest of the story is......what.

Danny Brooks
12-27-2014, 12:19 AM
I did load development for a guy who listened to what those guys were saying. They wanted him to use a 168 Berger in. 7mm Rem Mag, with over 3200 fps. Using Retumbo, with more powder than the case would hold.
We ended up using H4831, about 2950 fps. Gun shot great.
Whoever he was communicating with was not experienced with reloading at all.

Good luck,
Danny

Dusty Stevens
12-27-2014, 01:15 AM
I see sad stories and lots of disappointment coming from those shows. Just goes to show how the higher the price on a gun the more folks want it. If Jesus himself was there chambering those barrels those guns wouldnt be worth $7000

JerrySharrett
12-27-2014, 06:13 AM
Careful Zabeg, the caliber or the chambering isn't gonna be your only obstacle in trying to hit a deer at 1000 yards!!

Dusty Stevens
12-27-2014, 11:20 AM
That 300 win mag will make as good of a 1000yd rifle as whatever theyre selling in 7mm. It takes lots of practice to hit minute of deer at 1000yd and I mean LOTS. The gun that allows you to do this out of the box is a scope with the calibrated turrets to eliminate your trial and error of finding come ups for all the yardages. At 1000yds that only works at the calibrated temp, elevation, BC, bullet speed, zero wind, and flat shooting in the correct compass direction. All i can ever do is shake my head (out of the box killing deer at 1000yd)

Hal
12-27-2014, 12:51 PM
Roger

I was stating that some of the best of the west rifles are chambered for the .300 Win. The rifle came with a mounted Huskmaw scope and ammo loaded for that rifle. The kid killed a coyote at 650 yds with it.

Hal

Wilbur
12-27-2014, 01:25 PM
Whatever the caliber you choose, the rifle will either shoot well or it won't. That high price may indicate that the rifle has been tested and retested to the level it claims. I don't think anybody could build such a rifle without some degree of testing and re-doing along the way. Sure, every now and then, a fellow could build one and it shoot well enough (first time out) but I'm thinking few and far between.

That said, I think you can just about build two rifles for that kind of money and have fun doing it. So what if you miss a few shots at 1000 yards...you're gonna do that anyway...with the best of rifles.

Build your own rifle! If you have the $7000, as many folks do, buy one and save yourself the aggravation. Remember though, that somewhere along the way, that 7K rifle is gonna have a problem and you'll be right where you are now.

Folks like me, that don't have 7K to toss around have to learn to slip up on what we're gonna shoot - get a bit closer if you will:)

Roger T
12-27-2014, 02:57 PM
Hal, Thank You that clears that up.

404tbang
12-27-2014, 07:58 PM
Folks like me, that don't have 7K to toss around have to learn to slip up on what we're gonna shoot - get a bit closer if you will:)

Yep. It puts the "hunt" back into hunting.

Joe Salt
12-28-2014, 08:22 AM
Gary my L.G. didn't cost that much, and it has a new VX-6 leupold on top! I've been hearing that a lot of gunsmith these day are building these hunting rifles for $7000 or more. You are on the computer so start looking up the action you want, trigger, barrel, stock, scope. Then find how much the smith will charge to do the work. It might help.Your close with the 300 wm. but my choice would be 300WSM. My 2 cents.


Joe Salt

jim1K
12-28-2014, 10:10 AM
Roger

I was stating that some of the best of the west rifles are chambered for the .300 Win. The rifle came with a mounted Huskmaw scope and ammo loaded for that rifle. The kid killed a coyote at 650 yds with it.

Hal

Wow was that a deal my old model 70 rebarreled to 25-06 shot ground hogs over 1200 yds and deer close to a 1000 and it cost 125.00 used and restocked it in French walnut and it weighed 7.5 with a 24" Shilen barrel. i wore out a lot of barrels killing stuff at long range. To spend that kind of money on a gun is ridiculous and use it on big targets. I'm sure the guy building it, is also very happy $$$$. jim

jackie schmidt
12-28-2014, 11:23 AM
This is nothing new. Remember the "Bean Field Rifle" craze of the late '90's. Several top Gunsmiths who are household names didn't think anything of charging $7000+ for a Rifle capable of reaching out past 800 yards.

It's not hard to get into that price range pretty quick. An example is the 30 06 I built from that 721 action.

Cost of Rifle at pawn shop...275
Cost of barrel blank............325
Cost of stock......................400
Cost of trigger....................275
Cost of bottom metal...........325
Cost of parkerizing...............100
Total.............about $1800 in parts.

If you ad the cost of a custom action rather than a donar Rifle, that will be another $1500. So just to be on the safe side, we will say $3500 in parts.

Ok.
Chamber job........250
Bedding action......150

Now we are up to close to $4000. Add the cost of a 8x32 NXS Nightforce, and you are up to pretty close to that magic $7000 number.

The only difference in my '06 and. 300 Win is the chamber, I could have just as easily made it with any chambering.

Of cousrse, you can easily cut that number in half by just putting a good barrel on any good commercial action that you can get a decent trigger for, bed it yourself, mount a Burris, Leupold, etc, find a good load and hit the fields with it.

For what it is worth, I have a friend who has a Factory Savage chambered in 6.5x284 that will put 5 shots in a 3/4 inch circle at 200 yards. He paid about $1800 for it, and mounted a 6x24 Leupold.

That will get the job done.

That being said, shooting at live animals at anything past 500 yards is, well...........

ballistic64
12-28-2014, 11:29 AM
I see sad stories and lots of disappointment coming from those shows. Just goes to show how the higher the price on a gun the more folks want it. If Jesus himself was there chambering those barrels those guns wouldnt be worth $7000


I don't know......if Jesus did the chambering, who knows what kind of miracles might be thrown in with the deal. ;)

tcjones
12-28-2014, 11:56 AM
I met a fellow over the holiday from Idaho showing we a video of his hunt on an elk at 750 yards.
The quick video was a shoulder shot and wham the elk went down. Quick pictures on the small screen and I saw something.
I said good shot was that the first shot? I saw ears turned back on that elk before the hit.
The young chap says no that was the second shot , the first one was a gut shot.
I ain't buying into this long range shooting of late on live meat for fun. It's plain cruel in my mind and most can't do it. It's a internet and tv fad to show off. They don't show you the cut out video.
Be a hunter and hunt clean. If you want to practice long, do it on paper not at the game.
Grumble,

Hunter
12-28-2014, 12:08 PM
Folks like me, that don't have 7K to toss around

Wilbur, that reminds me of your story about THE money. :)

MilGunsmith
12-28-2014, 02:26 PM
Just look for an F-class rifle and camo paint it. Same rifle.

tcjones
12-28-2014, 03:03 PM
I don't know......if Jesus did the chambering, who knows what kind of miracles might be thrown in with the deal. ;) If Jesus did it? A .22 long rifle skipped across the lake water top and hit a goose while trout fishing? Not saying I saw that mind you.
,Tom J.

huntinco
12-28-2014, 11:32 PM
This is all i do for a living, Guide hunters, Long-range hunting rifles, shooting schools for hunters & i have seen & coached more elk, mule deer & moose kills @ 500 - 1500 yards then anyone. So let me ask a few questions. What is your main animal you want to target, what weight of rifle are you wanting, what hunting optics have you considered, are you road hunting or backpacking, how far can you walk, what is your weight, do you have a rangfinder if so what brand, do you plan to solo hunt or with a partner, what is your shooting percentage @ 400, 500,600,700,800,800 & 1000 from prone & shooting sticks, what shooting sticks do you use, do you own a spotting scope if so what one, do you have a portable weather station?

Uthink Uknow
12-29-2014, 07:19 AM
I'm with tcjones on this one. That long range crap is great for the long range guy with the equipment and the ability to score one shot hits all day long. The problem is that there are too many yahoos that blast and gasp, "what happened?" Three legged elk are fine as far as coyote feed is concerned. How many don't even shoot for a zero at 7000 feet of elevation? "It was fine last fall at 800 feet for deer in Ohio" doesn't cut it. Just attend a deer sight in day at a range near you as hunters prepare for white tail season in Michigan and you will see what I mean. I've helped on a number of such fiascos. A one foot target hit at 100 yards is fine with most of those guys. Scopes are the number one problem after the nut doing the shooting.

Doug Casner
12-29-2014, 10:27 AM
Loose nut behind the scope.

Uthink Uknow
12-29-2014, 10:49 AM
Yup

Dave Dowd
12-29-2014, 07:55 PM
I met a fellow over the holiday from Idaho showing we a video of his hunt on an elk at 750 yards.
The quick video was a shoulder shot and wham the elk went down. Quick pictures on the small screen and I saw something.
I said good shot was that the first shot? I saw ears turned back on that elk before the hit.
The young chap says no that was the second shot , the first one was a gut shot.
I ain't buying into this long range shooting of late on live meat for fun. It's plain cruel in my mind and most can't do it. It's a internet and tv fad to show off. They don't show you the cut out video.
Be a hunter and hunt clean. If you want to practice long, do it on paper not at the game.
Grumble,

AMEN! Whatever happened to hunting ethics.

Uthink Uknow
12-29-2014, 09:22 PM
At Super Shoot about 1990 Wally Hart had his trailer set up by the big barn. In the trailer he had a recording playing in a continuous loop a hunt in, I think Wyoming but, location doesn't count. Little Bobby was narrating the film to whoever cared. He shows an elk shot at about 1500 yards over some rugged country and a valley deep and rough. I watched it a couple times and Bobby asked what I thought of it. Wrong thing to ask me. I asked how long it took to retrieve the elk. He said they got it the same day. I guess my point was what if it was just wounded, if the coyotes got it, if they couldn't find it? I told him I thought it was a dumb shot to take. Why not stalk? Ooohhhhh wellllll. That's him and I'm me. I find white tails in the woods around here shot by "Hunters".

tcjones
12-29-2014, 10:03 PM
This is all i do for a living, Guide hunters, Long-range hunting rifles, shooting schools for hunters & i have seen & coached more elk, mule deer & moose kills @ 500 - 1500 yards then anyone. So let me ask a few questions. What is your main animal you want to target, what weight of rifle are you wanting, what hunting optics have you considered, are you road hunting or backpacking, how far can you walk, what is your weight, do you have a rangfinder if so what brand, do you plan to solo hunt or with a partner, what is your shooting percentage @ 400, 500,600,700,800,800 & 1000 from prone & shooting sticks, what shooting sticks do you use, do you own a spotting scope if so what one, do you have a portable weather station? If you don't mind I will ask , just out of simple interest.
If you have been involved in more hunts at 500 to 1500 yards than anyone. How many follow up shots have you taken (legal for guides here in Alaska) to kill an animal that one of your clients crippled.
Cripple as in a gut shot moose and I swear I hit it or a back spine shot at 1000 yards as the elk is pawing away on front legs with back end dragging or mule deer running full bore away on three legs?
Just the usual long shot stuff, you know. How many follow up shots in lets say, The last 5 years?
Thank you, Tom J.

Wilbur
12-30-2014, 02:42 AM
Wilbur, that reminds me of your story about THE money. :)

Yeah, I guess you're right about that. If I wanted one bad enough 7K wouldn't stop me! In fact, never has....which I suppose is the reason I don't have 7K these days.

OldManRiver
12-30-2014, 03:24 AM
Gary
Most of the guys here hunt flat ground were a shotgun is required or from a stand or blind. They have no idea what the rest of the country looks like so they tend to frown upon everything with zero experience. Most or all of there shots are under a 100 yards even with a rifle and they cripple more deer than all the longrange hunters by a huge margin.
A good friend had me send you a private message that i hope is actually helpful.
John

Dave Tooley
12-30-2014, 07:54 AM
I work with some of our brightest and best shooters. I've chambered thousands of barrels the past few years, many going in harms way. Depending on caliber they are used out to and beyond 1000 yds. The rifle is the easy part. The optics are the easy part. After that it takes a Kestrel for the atmospherics, a ballistic app on your phone and a well trained trigger puller and that's the weak link. Train train train different locations, different weather, different wind. Now apply a little common sense and a good dose of ethics and you'll know your limits. A complete system, rifle and optics(scope and range finder) could easily hit $7k.

Doug Casner
12-30-2014, 11:40 AM
You re right OldMan, Most of my deer kills here in Mo. were under 200 yds. Ive been out west killed antelope,deer, and elk. Never had a long shot out there either. I guess Im old school. Im not Carlos Hathcock. I need a good rest, no wind, know the yardage, then I might try one at 400. I got an idea where my 06 will be at that range. I wouldn't try one at a 1000 if I had heat seeking missiles. I always felt I owed it to game not to cripple it if possible, and I can do that a lot closer than 1000yds. A mans got to know his limitations. 400 yards is mine.

OldManRiver
12-30-2014, 02:53 PM
I hunted in Michigan in 2006 and will never be back. My rifle was a pump shotgun and we were spaced out at 125 yard intervals along a grassy fence line waiting for the deer to leave some very thick trees to come out and feed. We looked like mall ninjas but got 10 deer in 30 minutes. Notice i said deer not trophy bucks. You guys can keep your up close shooting I prefer a rifle on my hunts.

I have shot alongside many operators/sniper types and while I like Dave Tooleys posts I disagree with the assumption they are well trained and highly skilled unless the military only allows them back east?

Deer dont hide behind brick walls and rarely shoot back or get on there cellphone for extra help.Out here we use the calibrated turrets for our area with nothing but a rangefinder and spotting scope. Our success rate is above average and as the terrain is steep all cripples go only one direction and that is downhill. If you have seen a cripple go uphill you have no idea what hunting out west is all about.

Doug
If you need no wind you can forget hunting out west as that will never happen. I am glad you know your limitations and dont try to stretch it.

I think the OP came here looking for caliber gun and gunsmith suggestons not a morals debate but then again he picked benchrest central.

Wilbur lock me out this place is toast.
John

Uthink Uknow
12-30-2014, 06:16 PM
You hunted in Michigan with the yahoos I spoke about earlier.
That's all I'll say.
You don't need to be locked out of BC Forum. You just need to unlock your mind to what is around you.

huntinco
12-30-2014, 07:38 PM
If you don't mind I will ask , just out of simple interest.
If you have been involved in more hunts at 500 to 1500 yards than anyone. How many follow up shots have you taken (legal for guides here in Alaska) to kill an animal that one of your clients crippled.
Cripple as in a gut shot moose and I swear I hit it or a back spine shot at 1000 yards as the elk is pawing away on front legs with back end dragging or mule deer running full bore away on three legs?
Just the usual long shot stuff, you know. How many follow up shots in lets say, The last 5 years?
Thank you, Tom J.

I will give the easy anwser. In a nut shell the amount of follow shoots are the same @ any distance & I see more wounded elk with horrible shot placement @ 50 -150 yards then I do @ 550-800. Another huge misconception on elk are Neck and high shoulders shots should be taken & this in not the case!! 90% of the time a neck shot elk will get away and 90% of the time a high shoulder elk will be back on his feet in under 40 seconds & 90% of the time a gut shoot elk will die within 48hrs. Just ask my tracking dog.

huntinco
12-31-2014, 09:16 AM
I will give the easy anwser. In a nut shell the amount of follow shoots are the same @ any distance & I see more wounded elk with horrible shot placement @ 50 -150 yards then I do @ 550-800. Another huge misconception on elk are Neck and high shoulders shots should be taken & this in not the case!! 90% of the time a neck shot elk will get away and 90% of the time a high shoulder elk will be back on his feet in under 40 seconds & 90% of the time a gut shoot elk will die within 48hrs. Just ask my tracking dog.

Here is a quick litte plug on the long range classes we offer. Watch the show and give me some feedback as I'm headed to Mexico today chasing desert mule deer and will miss it. Outdoor channel today NRA all acess

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_uhcI0GHzw

Joe Salt
12-31-2014, 09:19 AM
I'd like to say this, Like Dave tooley said Well Trained trigger puller, I shoot with them every year. So I know there are guys out there, that do this every year and are very good at it. I've been asked to go on some of these hunts, but thats not my thing! I'm a BOWHUNTER at heart. But I too have Screwed Up, And that never made me happy. So if you have hunted for over 50 years like I have and never lost an Animal, I'll call you a Mr. Obama right to your face. So I know there are a lot of you that are afraid to say I lost one because of a bad shot, No one wants to do that to a deer or what ever. But we are all human! So if you want the ANTI HUNTERS and Anti Gun people to win, just keep putting each other down! Last I knew this was still a free country, so keep it up you won't be hunting at all.

Joe Salt

jim1K
12-31-2014, 09:23 AM
Joe hit the nail on the head +1 jim

Doug Casner
12-31-2014, 10:53 AM
We can argue among ourselves about hunting,shooting, whatever but we stick together about our right to do it. Iwouldnt shoot at one a 1000 but I don't care if you do. One of my least favorite sayings is There oughta be a law against that. We got to dam many laws now. I don't think I could see one at a 1000 thru a spotting scope. If long range hunting is your cup of tea,then have fun. Doug

tcjones
12-31-2014, 11:05 PM
I'd like to say this, Like Dave tooley said Well Trained trigger puller, I shoot with them every year. So I know there are guys out there, that do this every year and are very good at it. I've been asked to go on some of these hunts, but thats not my thing! I'm a BOWHUNTER at heart. But I too have Screwed Up, And that never made me happy. So if you have hunted for over 50 years like I have and never lost an Animal, I'll call you a Mr. Obama right to your face. So I know there are a lot of you that are afraid to say I lost one because of a bad shot, No one wants to do that to a deer or what ever. But we are all human! So if you want the ANTI HUNTERS and Anti Gun people to win, just keep putting each other down! Last I knew this was still a free country, so keep it up you won't be hunting at all.

Joe Salt The antigun, antihunter is out there looking for reasons to stop actions they deem unjust. I try not to give a reason for people to look my way.
Trust me, when I was 5 I was putting a can of tadpoles to death. Now 52 years later I kill deer,goat,bear, moose, dove, goose, marten,otter,fish,crab,shrimp, crows,rats ,on and on.
Not only shoot em, I hook them, stab them,net them, trap them,beat them, on and on there too.
That is by the year to fill freezer and sport and to make a buck.
It is a free country, thats what gives me peace of mind to disagree on what I may choose as sportsmanship.

Tom J.

Joe Salt
01-01-2015, 10:30 AM
Here is another one for you to think about! When I was a kid and farmers would got too many CATs or DOGs they would put the litter in a burlap bag and throw them in the water. What would happen to you today if you were caught doing that? But they think nothing of taking a baby out of the womb and snipping its spin! I think I'll go long range hunting.

Joe Salt

dk hunt 14
01-01-2015, 11:55 AM
The guys that longerange hunt are picky about there shots. The guns shoot incredible. My gun hunting will shoot 5 shots in the 4 to 5 inch range at 1000 yards. There has to be a lot of wind to make a 300 Grain Berger at 3000 feet a second drift off a deer sized target. I shoot all the time at 1000 yards and know what my gun is capable of. If you shoot and miss the animals usually don't run and if they do it isn't far. With a spotter your second shot is on the money. A lot of guys if the conditions are bad will shoot at a rock first and adjust and shoot the animal. I bet they wound way less deer then the guy in the woods shooting offhand or at running deer like in drives. Been there and saw it. Shooting at 1000 yards isn't that hard with the right Equipment. I could have almost anybody shooting 10 shot groups at 1000 yards in the 7 to 10 inch range on there first hour or so. If you don't think the guns are capable you ought to come to the 1000 yard benchrest school at Williamsport and learn how to load and test and shoot at 1000 yards. You would probably be surprised at how good you do and how much fun it is. Matt

Dan Conzo
01-03-2015, 02:00 PM
I think Matt is right on. I believe the ballistic rangefinder and is the best there is and doubles as a weather station. The old military coincidental rangefinders are very good, especially if you range ahead of season and make a map but not easy to lug around. Hunters have been killing deer at long range here in Pennsylvania for over 50 years. The old military rangefinders are real cheap now since the introduction of the pocket laser rangefinders and binocular rangefinders became popular. Here in Pa we've been putting two spotting scopes together since the late 70s for hunting and they are very good. I believe $7000 is a bloated figure but if that what the hunter thinks he needs then what the heck. I also think a lot of people figure if they don't do it or don't know much about it then nobody should do it. So called political leaders preach morality to us everyday, hell some of us have our own morality and don't preach it to others.