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Pete Wass
12-25-2014, 08:40 PM
Not long before I left for Florida, I visited a friend who has a fairly large collection of RF Benchrest rifles. We got to talking and he began to show me some of the rifles he has acquired over the past few years. He mentioned that he had a rife built by Chet Amick. I asked if I could look at it. He dug it out of his safe and un-wrapped it. Lovely Hall in a Larson stock, signed by Chet and the name of the fellow he made it for. I asked to look at the chamber and was permitted to do so. It isn't like any other chamber I have looked at to date, I must say but have some idea of what is in there. Very interesting, indeed it was.

Pete

Hal
12-25-2014, 08:56 PM
Pete

That is just a teaser, what's the rest of the story?

Hal

Pete Wass
12-25-2014, 08:58 PM
Pete

That is just a teaser, what's the rest of the story?

Hal

That's the whole story. It appears to be a very well made rifle. I hope to get to shoot it some day.

Pete

tim
12-25-2014, 10:16 PM
Was this Gary Loughnot's rifle? Was it glued in?

Pete Wass
12-26-2014, 12:19 AM
Was this Gary Loughnot's rifle? Was it glued in?

No, Douglas was the first name and I don't remember the second. I didn't look to see how it was bedded.

Don
12-26-2014, 12:32 AM
Not long before I left for Florida, I visited a friend who has a fairly large collection of RF Benchrest rifles. We got to talking and he began to show me some of the rifles he has acquired over the past few years. He mentioned that he had a rife built by Chet Amick. I asked if I could look at it. He dug it out of his safe and un-wrapped it. Lovely Hall in a Larson stock, signed by Chet and the name of the fellow he made it for. I asked to look at the chamber and was permitted to do so. It isn't like any other chamber I have looked at to date, I must say but have some idea of what is in there. Very interesting, indeed it was.

Pete

Wasn't there a heated argument in the past with the Amick estate about the proprietary configuration of these rifles, and the estate did not wish to release Chets accuracy secrets?

After those discussions I am surprised an Amick rifle made it out of the family collection...........Don

earlm
12-26-2014, 07:51 AM
I have one 10.5 Swindlehurst not glued in, (Lugnuts), also shoot with a friend with a 54 sporter.

tim
12-26-2014, 09:56 AM
I have one 10.5 Swindlehurst not glued in, (Lugnuts), also shoot with a friend with a 54 sporter.

Thats a good one, very lightly used. I set up the ignition on that one , Gary and I were both shooting Swindlehurst's at the time. As i remember anything from 1053-1068fps worked well.

tim
12-26-2014, 10:00 AM
Wasn't there a heated argument in the past with the Amick estate about the proprietary configuration of these rifles, and the estate did not wish to release Chets accuracy secrets?

After those discussions I am surprised an Amick rifle made it out of the family collection...........Don

There was no battle over anything other than misinformation. The number one "proprietary" element of Chet's work was how he lapped his barrels.......gone with him.

tim
12-26-2014, 10:03 AM
No, Douglas was the first name and I don't remember the second. I didn't look to see how it was bedded.

I suspect the prior owner wasnt the first, Chet never signd or marked any gun I ever heard of.

Pete Wass
12-26-2014, 04:18 PM
I suspect the prior owner wasnt the first, Chet never signd or marked any gun I ever heard of.

The current owner told me he bought the rifle from the widow of the person who was very close to Chet and the rifle was a present to that fellow who is and was deceased at the time of purchase.

Tennyrate, the chamber is far different than any I have seen in other rifles; lapped, I would say and finished very well. The rifle hasn't been shot very much, from what I saw.

Pete

BARTMAN
12-26-2014, 06:53 PM
Pete. was it sighned like this.?

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj132/Bartmanspics/Mobile%20Uploads/B45D00BB-7F4D-40B1-81E2-FC07BB902854_zpsvgocgevx.jpg (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/Bartmanspics/media/Mobile%20Uploads/B45D00BB-7F4D-40B1-81E2-FC07BB902854_zpsvgocgevx.jpg.html)

GordonE
12-26-2014, 07:17 PM
Hi Pete
Hope you had a Merry Christmas

A couple Questions. When you say The Chamber was finished very well. Did that mean polished to remove all tool marks? All tool marks including the leade? How did he say it Shot.
Always wondered what other people thought About chambers. Is it finish or dimension?

Thanks
Gordon

tim
12-26-2014, 08:48 PM
The current owner told me he bought the rifle from the widow of the person who was very close to Chet and the rifle was a present to that fellow who is and was deceased at the time of purchase.

Tennyrate, the chamber is far different than any I have seen in other rifles; lapped, I would say and finished very well. The rifle hasn't been shot very much, from what I saw.

Pete

Didn' t lap them but they generally looked quite good. All of them done with one single reamer, he said it would never leave to be sharpened.......never found out what happened to the reamer.

Pete Wass
12-26-2014, 08:58 PM
Hi Pete
Hope you had a Merry Christmas

A couple Questions. When you say The Chamber was finished very well. Did that mean polished to remove all tool marks? All tool marks including the leade? How did he say it Shot.
Always wondered what other people thought About chambers. Is it finish or dimension?

Thanks
Gordon

It's a finish and looked to me as if it was lapped. You know how a cylinder looks after it has been honed? It looked something like that. No tool marks at all where one would normally see a leade. He said it will shoot about anything.

Pete Wass
12-26-2014, 08:59 PM
Pete. was it sighned like this.?

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj132/Bartmanspics/Mobile%20Uploads/B45D00BB-7F4D-40B1-81E2-FC07BB902854_zpsvgocgevx.jpg (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/Bartmanspics/media/Mobile%20Uploads/B45D00BB-7F4D-40B1-81E2-FC07BB902854_zpsvgocgevx.jpg.html)

Yes, I was wondering today if, perhaps the barrel could be a Douglas - - - -

BARTMAN
12-27-2014, 12:38 AM
This one I have seems to shoot most ammo. I have not had it long enough to know for sure. It seems from what little I have shot it to be a shooter. I have been refinishing and bedding the stock. Going to try and find a tune and take it to the swamp shoot in February and see how it shoots. Can not see the chamber with the naked eye but the bore is really polished.

Don Stith
12-28-2014, 01:41 PM
Pete. was it sighned like this.?

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj132/Bartmanspics/Mobile%20Uploads/B45D00BB-7F4D-40B1-81E2-FC07BB902854_zpsvgocgevx.jpg (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/Bartmanspics/media/Mobile%20Uploads/B45D00BB-7F4D-40B1-81E2-FC07BB902854_zpsvgocgevx.jpg.html)

That is typical of the signature on the four Amicks I have owned and the three others I know where are. Chet did some experimenting with leade angles and freebore. He also talked about chamber polishing in our discussions.

tim
12-28-2014, 06:19 PM
I suspect the prior owner wasnt the first, Chet never signd or marked any gun I ever heard of.

My bad, should have re read this post , it came out wrong. I meant marked with owners name. Never type n a hurry.

BARTMAN
12-28-2014, 06:44 PM
Don, did they all shoot well? I hope with the chamber not engraving that maybe ,it will not be so picky on ammo. It would be nice if the family would find a smith to turn over his work to , and to further his methods and to see how his method would work with today's actions and barrels.

GordonE
12-28-2014, 06:54 PM
Don
In you discussions with Chet on chamber polishing. Did he tell you why he would polish the chamber? Now we get to the Throat. I can see some sort of polish, More room for carbon to build in that area. The leade to give the bullet a smooth transition. Leade and Free Bore can be done with Chamber reamer and Depth.

Just Trying To Learn. Chet built some Great Shooting Guns.
Gordon

Don Stith
12-28-2014, 07:06 PM
I won't attempt to hype the legend, but I never had one shoot poorly. Two of the local guys that Chet built their first BR rifles for as a favor to me, won a number of matches despite never shooting more than 8 or 10 matches a year. I doubt the family could be much help other than sharing the reamer. Lapping, chambering and polishing are not subject to transfer via gene pool
Honestly, my Gordon Eck and Kent Owens rifles shoot as well as the Chet rifles did. Might require a little more ammo searching is all. Chet was a good friend and I don't say this to demean him.. He was also an excellent shooter and wind reader which helped his reputation
Was on the verge of having a little fun with Tim until he clarified his post. Chet told me one time that he would not build a rilfe for Tim. Since apparently he reversed that position, I was going to suggest that maybe he did not sign Tims to make it look like he did not build him one. Oh well. Fun moment lost.

Don Stith
12-28-2014, 07:20 PM
Gordon
Your post came in while I was typing. Two old fingers just don't move very quickly.
I was not knowledgeable enough to ask serious questions of him. My loss. He loved to talk about things he was doing though. He definitely believed that polishing the chamber was beneficial.. His freebore ideas were quite different that what other smiths do.. The polished leade and a low angle may be necessary to work well with freebore.. I am sure you could help answer those questions wth some experimenting this winter.
I think that might help offset the variations of cartridge length , bullet seating depth, ogive length, etc
If you are short of actions to play with, I could send you one.

tim
12-28-2014, 07:51 PM
I won't attempt to hype the legend, but I never had one shoot poorly. Two of the local guys that Chet built their first BR rifles for as a favor to me, won a number of matches despite never shooting more than 8 or 10 matches a year. I doubt the family could be much help other than sharing the reamer. Lapping, chambering and polishing are not subject to transfer via gene pool
Honestly, my Gordon Eck and Kent Owens rifles shoot as well as the Chet rifles did. Might require a little more ammo searching is all. Chet was a good friend and I don't say this to demean him.. He was also an excellent shooter and wind reader which helped his reputation
Was on the verge of having a little fun with Tim until he clarified his post. Chet told me one time that he would not build a rilfe for Tim. Since apparently he reversed that position, I was going to suggest that maybe he did not sign Tims to make it look like he did not build him one. Oh well. Fun moment lost.
Classy post.
You mean until he got to know me. We talked at least 2-3 times a week the last couple years, became quite good friends, talked to his wife a few months back..
Remember Don, all those capable smiths that built'em for you knew full well that's where rifles go to die

GordonE
12-28-2014, 07:52 PM
You Guys Sort out Who Knows THE MOST. May the best man win

GordonE
12-29-2014, 08:18 PM
Polished Chambers, No tool marks, No Engraving, The best for last "FREE BORE" Does not exsist in Rimfire. If you think this is "SMOKE" (Willy laughing with you not at you)If You have the time Twist the bullet in a couple different lots of Eley. Exact same start pressure From the start of the target to the finish Is A MUST. You can't get this with a loose Crimp here and there With no engraving. Look at the Throat of the chamber You will see something On those BULLETS, Chambers with no engraving.

Pete Wass
12-30-2014, 07:34 PM
Polished Chambers, No tool marks, No Engraving, The best for last "FREE BORE" Does not exsist in Rimfire. If you think this is "SMOKE" (Willy laughing with you not at you)If You have the time Twist the bullet in a couple different lots of Eley. Exact same start pressure From the start of the target to the finish Is A MUST. You can't get this with a loose Crimp here and there With no engraving. Look at the Throat of the chamber You will see something On those BULLETS, Chambers with no engraving.

I agree there has to be some sort of engraving if one is setting up a barrel that depends on Stuffing bullets into the lands, a very common practice. On the other hand, there are some CF barrels that only perform well if the bullets are jumped into the leade, sometimes as much as .035" or more. I have seen several barrels that liked .010" to .015". Perhaps the same could be true for RF??? There has to be an answer because the reports on Mr. Amick's rifles are outstanding, from what I have heard.

Has anyone tried to set up jump chambers in RF rifles? Perhaps if so, they would tell us about it. It would require some testing, I'm sure. It sure would be nice to be less dependent on specific lots and or machines #ers.

Pete

GordonE
12-30-2014, 09:23 PM
Pete
A jump chamber would be easy for you to do. The gun that you shot at one time in the Maine Shoot The gun where you dug the empty cases out with a screw driver. It must of had a short chamber. Just ream it to jump a bullit. Cant wait for the Results. Keep Us Posted.

Bolero
12-31-2014, 09:27 AM
I've owned 2 Chet Amick Rifles in Rimfire, a Suhl/Hart and a Rem 40X/Walther, bought both in 2012 from a relative of Chets, he had built the guns in 2006 & 2007.

The top rifle in the picture is the Suhl/Hart, I recently sold the rifle.
The bottom rifle in the picture is the Remington 40X and I still own and shoot it.

The target was shot with the Rem 40X using SK Plus.

Both rifles consistently shoot 5 shot groups in the Sub .200 center to center range at 50 yards and using Eley Match ammo, however both guns shoot very good groups with most any good ammo.
I have many groups in the .160 to .170 C/C 5 shot groups.

The Rem 40X is a little more forgiving in Set Up, Sighting, Ammo & Scoring.

Chet was fanatical regards Chamber, Bore Lapping and Practice.
Chet believed that Press fit barrels were just as accurate as Threaded barrels and built and refined both.
Chet also felt that most any good action was adequate for an Accurately shooting gun and that it was primarily the Barrel Chamber and Bore that made the difference.

FWIW Chet often used Tuners, Tubes, Fans and anything else that he felt would add to the accuracy of his shooting, and again, he was fanatical re Practice, Reading Wind and BR set up.

Hoping you find the pictures and info interesting and useful...





15710

15709

15711

Pete Wass
12-31-2014, 11:02 AM
Pete
A jump chamber would be easy for you to do. The gun that you shot at one time in the Maine Shoot The gun where you dug the empty cases out with a screw driver. It must of had a short chamber. Just ream it to jump a bullit. Cant wait for the Results. Keep Us Posted.

the problem with digging the cases out was from too long a pin dimpling the chamber, which I have corrected. I recently moved and have no place yet for my machines and I didn't bring them with me to Florida. I plan to built a place as soon as the frost leaves the ground. I am contemplating a method of chambering that will allow one to be able to make changes, such as chambers with long leads, etc. At the cost of ammo, barrels are relatively inexpensive so one can do a lot of playing around with barrels and not bleed as badly.

Then again, I am 70 YOA, how much longer will I be doing this? I find it interesting to talk about, mostly, as some other folks do. I am not driven to win like a lot of people are. I mostly like being there and participating. If I win a match or two, great but I am not bent of "Wooping everyone else", not how I'm put together. I learned a long time ago that one must enjoy the trip first and foremost or I should be doing something else I enjoy. I have found a lot of satisfaction in Benchrest, of all types but like the RF better; always have.

Pete

Pete Wass
12-31-2014, 11:04 AM
I've owned 2 Chet Amick Rifles in Rimfire, a Suhl/Hart and a Rem 40X/Walther, bought both in 2012 from a relative of Chets, he had built the guns in 2006 & 2007.

The top rifle in the picture is the Suhl/Hart, I recently sold the rifle.
The bottom rifle in the picture is the Remington 40X and I still own and shoot it.

The target was shot with the Rem 40X using SK Plus.

Both rifles consistently shoot 5 shot groups in the Sub .200 center to center range at 50 yards and using Eley Match ammo, however both guns shoot very good groups with most any good ammo.
I have many groups in the .160 to .170 C/C 5 shot groups.

The Rem 40X is a little more forgiving in Set Up, Sighting, Ammo & Scoring.

Chet was fanatical regards Chamber, Bore Lapping and Practice.
Chet believed that Press fit barrels were just as accurate as Threaded barrels and built and refined both.
Chet also felt that most any good action was adequate for an Accurately shooting gun and that it was primarily the Barrel Chamber and Bore that made the difference.

FWIW Chet often used Tuners, Tubes, Fans and anything else that he felt would add to the accuracy of his shooting, and again, he was fanatical re Practice, Reading Wind and BR set up.

Hoping you find the pictures and info interesting and useful...





15710

15709

15711



I appreciate your candor and for putting the pictures up. From what you have said about what Chet believed, I find it to be pretty much the same as I do.

Pete

center22
12-31-2014, 11:50 AM
I've owned 2 Chet Amick Rifles in Rimfire, a Suhl/Hart and a Rem 40X/Walther, bought both in 2012 from a relative of Chets, he had built the guns in 2006 & 2007.

The top rifle in the picture is the Suhl/Hart, I recently sold the rifle.
The bottom rifle in the picture is the Remington 40X and I still own and shoot it.

The target was shot with the Rem 40X using SK Plus.

Both rifles consistently shoot 5 shot groups in the Sub .200 center to center range at 50 yards and using Eley Match ammo, however both guns shoot very good groups with most any good ammo.
I have many groups in the .160 to .170 C/C 5 shot groups.

The Rem 40X is a little more forgiving in Set Up, Sighting, Ammo & Scoring.

Chet was fanatical regards Chamber, Bore Lapping and Practice.
Chet believed that Press fit barrels were just as accurate as Threaded barrels and built and refined both.
Chet also felt that most any good action was adequate for an Accurately shooting gun and that it was primarily the Barrel Chamber and Bore that made the difference.

FWIW Chet often used Tuners, Tubes, Fans and anything else that he felt would add to the accuracy of his shooting, and again, he was fanatical re Practice, Reading Wind and BR set up.

Hoping you find the pictures and info interesting and useful...





15710

15709

15711

Bolero, thanks for sharing the photos and some of Mr. Amick thoughts on building a competitive RFBR rifle. I have a question on the chamber depth and leade of the two Amick rifles you own, or have owned. When hand inserting an Eley Match or Lapua round into the chamber of each rifle, did the rim easily go flush with the chamber? If not, approximately how much of a gap between the rim and the chamber face? Thanks, ... John

Bolero
12-31-2014, 01:42 PM
John, through testing and shooting many different types of Eley, Lapua and RWS in both the Suhl/Hart and the Rem40X/Walther I found that some ammo fit right in snugly and some(only a few)I had to almost force in but everything went in Rim to Chamber face with a little pushing... I never took the time to actually measure any Gaps I just stopped using that particular ammo...as I remember the longer ammo was early Lapua Master and some early Eley Red, not sure...

I eventually shot all my best Amick Suhl groups with Eley Match 1058, 2 machine I think and it all went smoothly and firmly into the chamber, with very easy bolt closing.

The Rem40X has a little tighter chamber but I'm not remembering all the ammo loading details, sorry

I mostly shot the Suhl thru 2014...I always cleaned the bore after 200 or so shots and twice a year used some Flitz on a mop and vigorously scrubbed the chamber.

Hope that helps

center22
12-31-2014, 02:31 PM
John, through testing and shooting many different types of Eley, Lapua and RWS in both the Suhl/Hart and the Rem40X/Walther I found that some ammo fit right in snugly and some(only a few)I had to almost force in but everything went in Rim to Chamber face with a little pushing... I never took the time to actually measure any Gaps I just stopped using that particular ammo...as I remember the longer ammo was early Lapua Master and some early Eley Red, not sure...

I eventually shot all my best Amick Suhl groups with Eley Match 1058, 2 machine I think and it all went smoothly and firmly into the chamber, with very easy bolt closing.

The Rem40X has a little tighter chamber but I'm not remembering all the ammo loading details, sorry

I mostly shot the Suhl thru 2014...I always cleaned the bore after 200 or so shots and twice a year used some Flitz on a mop and vigorously scrubbed the chamber.

Hope that helps

Bolero,
Thank you for detailed and very interesting information. If I recall correctly, some of the older Lapua ammo had a projectile that was around .001" larger in diameter ... possibly the Midas or Master M? I have a few boxes laying around, and it will not chamber in any of my match rifles. To me it appears that Mr. Amick favored a tapered chamber, somewhat like the tight tapered Lilja reamer ... which I originally played around with, but now use either an Eley EPS or the Calfee II reamer. I like to slightly engrave the projectile and prefer a nearly "straight wall" chamber now. Although I'm just a "personal" shade tree RF gunsmith, experimentor and competitor, it's always nice to hear how others performed various tasks. It's a shame Mr. Amick's knowledge and experiences past away with him. This is basically just a hobby to most of us ... nobody's getting rich ... and I personally shared my experiences with others, at my club and online, without the expectations of any monetary gain. Thanks again for your comments, ... John

Bolero
12-31-2014, 05:45 PM
John my theory regards Local Match and National Match events and winning those events boils down like this...

If 100 shooters show up for a Natl Match at least 75% will have guns and equipment up to the task of winning.

It all comes down to the following, In My Opinion...

Personal experience of the shooter guy.

The BR equipment he uses and sets up with.

The ammunition he has chosen for the Match.

Most importantly, the Technique used by the shooter, ie. how he reads and shoots his target, LtoR or RtoL or Top to Bottom or Bottom to Top... all are excellent but one of the methods must be what his gun and set up like for a return to Battery or POA, Spring Tension or Back Pressure of the Vertical and Horizontal adjustments on the One Piece Rest's can have a serious effect on POA/POI............

Shooters ability to read and adjust for wind conditions is critical.

Shooters Mental Ability to focus on the Task at hand, Critical.

Put all these things together and you have a Profile of a winning shooter...

Several Master Rimfire shooters read these forums, I would be curious to know how they feel about my Opinions.

tim
12-31-2014, 06:03 PM
That there is a pretty fair outline for performance, doubt I'd change anything.
Best guns on the planet don't shoot themselves( unlike some blowhards profess), and the best shooters cannot win with crap equipment........well said.

BARTMAN
12-31-2014, 07:53 PM
Here are some pics of eley tenex and club that I chambered in the suhl. You can se three distinct witness marks on the bands but are not cut or engraved. But this is a Hart 3 groove and I dont know how invasive the rifling is , but you can see the club brass is crimped and also some of the lead at the base. Like the lead is the same shape of the slug. You don't see the crimping on the eps slug's brass, because I think it is shorter.
http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj132/Bartmanspics/Mobile%20Uploads/1569F4E3-9DF0-4F55-B989-6B322859F020_zpsm0jfcavo.jpg (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/Bartmanspics/media/Mobile%20Uploads/1569F4E3-9DF0-4F55-B989-6B322859F020_zpsm0jfcavo.jpg.html)


http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj132/Bartmanspics/Mobile%20Uploads/63A49ECE-B70E-430B-8D6A-41C0FBA5D155_zpswjwf1t0y.jpg (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/Bartmanspics/media/Mobile%20Uploads/63A49ECE-B70E-430B-8D6A-41C0FBA5D155_zpswjwf1t0y.jpg.html)

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj132/Bartmanspics/Mobile%20Uploads/F1F2B711-223F-4725-A4A7-A28BC7E7756C_zpssnlzteln.jpg (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/Bartmanspics/media/Mobile%20Uploads/F1F2B711-223F-4725-A4A7-A28BC7E7756C_zpssnlzteln.jpg.html)

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj132/Bartmanspics/Mobile%20Uploads/1569F4E3-9DF0-4F55-B989-6B322859F020_zpsm0jfcavo.jpg (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/Bartmanspics/media/Mobile%20Uploads/1569F4E3-9DF0-4F55-B989-6B322859F020_zpsm0jfcavo.jpg.html)

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj132/Bartmanspics/Mobile%20Uploads/CD4437AF-7035-4DBA-9494-90C274538B84_zps5oho3lxb.jpg (http://s271.photobucket.com/user/Bartmanspics/media/Mobile%20Uploads/CD4437AF-7035-4DBA-9494-90C274538B84_zps5oho3lxb.jpg.html)

BARTMAN
12-31-2014, 08:14 PM
Well I guess the club is just a little larger in diameter than the tenex. I can't tell that they are longer by measuring . The club is a little harder to chamber. But the witness marks or rifling marks appear to be strait. I thought they would be at an angle to follow the rifling twist? But then again I am no gunsmith

center22
12-31-2014, 09:29 PM
John my theory regards Local Match and National Match events and winning those events boils down like this...

If 100 shooters show up for a Natl Match at least 75% will have guns and equipment up to the task of winning.

It all comes down to the following, In My Opinion...

Personal experience of the shooter guy.

The BR equipment he uses and sets up with.

The ammunition he has chosen for the Match.

Most importantly, the Technique used by the shooter, ie. how he reads and shoots his target, LtoR or RtoL or Top to Bottom or Bottom to Top... all are excellent but one of the methods must be what his gun and set up like for a return to Battery or POA, Spring Tension or Back Pressure of the Vertical and Horizontal adjustments on the One Piece Rest's can have a serious effect on POA/POI............

Shooters ability to read and adjust for wind conditions is critical.

Shooters Mental Ability to focus on the Task at hand, Critical.

Put all these things together and you have a Profile of a winning shooter...

Several Master Rimfire shooters read these forums, I would be curious to know how they feel about my Opinions.

Chuck,
Your assessment as to what it takes to win at a National or even local level is very much on the money. One bit of advice for others ... if you attend a National match, take along a good spotting scope. During multiple relays, it will allow you to focus on the targets of top competitors and watch the sequence in which they run a target ... very helpful in many instances. Talk to other competitors when they are not shooting ... many will share good advice and knowledge. Bring your best ammo. John

tim
12-31-2014, 09:55 PM
Well I guess the club is just a little larger in diameter than the tenex. I can't tell that they are longer by measuring . The club is a little harder to chamber. But the witness marks or rifling marks appear to be strait. I thought they would be at an angle to follow the rifling twist? But then again I am no gunsmith

Not for nothing but its not very easy to identify much with those photos. Engraving......that I know. I have zero idea what a "witness mark " is.

BARTMAN
01-01-2015, 12:15 AM
Just a term , a mark. Riffling mark, engraving mark,

Wilbur
01-01-2015, 03:03 AM
............ I thought they would be at an angle to follow the rifling twist? But then again I am no gunsmith

Can't really tell but I'm gonna say they're not straight....just looks that way.

Pete Wass
01-01-2015, 11:35 AM
Not even pretending to know anything and only rendering an opinion, look to me like the lead in the chamber is as long as the marks on the bullet if not longer longer. Would that make the leade angle 1/2 a degree or less? Pretty much answers the question about Jumping, eh?

Thanks,

Pete

tim
01-01-2015, 04:22 PM
Not for nothing but its not very easy to identify much with those photos. Engraving......that I know. I have zero idea what a "witness mark " is.

Again, without better images, hard to tell. If that's a Hart 3 groove it's no engraving....their lands are wider than that.
Are those marks equal around the slug? It's only possible to see a single one.

BARTMAN
01-01-2015, 05:05 PM
Yes the marks are equal . The pics ar bad because I had to zoom in so far to be able to see the marks. May try again later. The marks or dark lines ar really hard to see with the eye, you have to have it at just the right angle and light. They are actually shiny. The zoom makes them look like shadows.

tim
01-01-2015, 07:19 PM
Well understand one important thing here as well. Chester took a lot of guns, particularly from up around here and "tweeked" them. Some guns were initially done by someone else and sent to him. Occaisionally he would re chamber them, more often he would relap them if possible to get a more progressive taper. He fit very few Hart barrels, for instance, because they were, at that time being made on the large side of what he could use and ran, often, to .2180" across the lands.
He got to a point where he wanted something that ran .2170" but would go up to .2175". He only measured with pins not by slugging, as he believed that yielded better sealing in the bore.
If I knew a bit more about the provenance of some I could venture an educated guess.
The "Lugnuts" example, for instance, was likely first fitted by Tommy Fargnoli and relaped by Chet on a Hart barrel in particular.
Loughnot and I got to where we sourced some barrels from Tim North with Chesters ideal dimensions in the Broughton 5C configuration. They were to be for a couple projects Chet was going to do but that's when he passed and those never got completed. A lot of the 5C barrels Broughton made did very well as fit by Gordon and many of them were right in that .2168" .2170" sweet spot.

BARTMAN
01-01-2015, 09:36 PM
Well I took a chance on buying the gun. In hopes that it would just be somewhat competitive without spending the cost of a complete custom. I think it is going to serve me well enough to shoot a few bigger matches a year. And with a little history behind it. I shoot a lot of usbr and use three guns. That would be a large investment to have three high end guns. Thanks to you guys willing to share your knowledge

bearhillhunter
01-20-2015, 01:27 PM
I suspect the prior owner wasnt the first, Chet never signd or marked any gun I ever heard of.

Tim , I have a Suhl that Chet barreled for me that he engraved with the barrel name and his

tim
01-20-2015, 05:23 PM
Tim , I have a Suhl that Chet barreled for me that he engraved with the barrel name and his

#19