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View Full Version : what is the detail of the law of shipping firearms interstate?



JerrySharrett
12-08-2014, 05:47 AM
I know generally that GCA 68 requires an FFL to ship firearms interstate in certain conditions. I just bought, and paid for, a firearm off Gunbrocker and the seller shipped it to my local FFL. Now the seller tells me he doesn't have an FFL and my local FFL tells me he can not process the firearm without the shippers FFL. The firearm now is physically at my local FFL.
What is the law on this?

Dusty Stevens
12-08-2014, 07:39 AM
My FFL allows for taking in firearms from non FFL

JerrySharrett
12-08-2014, 07:58 AM
My FFL allows for taking in firearms from non FFL

Thanks Dusty. According to the BATFE site the FAQ reads;


Q: May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s own State?

A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3)]

Jim Kobe
12-08-2014, 08:31 AM
Jerry, been there and done that. This bit about the sender providing an FFL copy has been perpetrated by the ATFE themselves. Here is a quote fro the ATF website:

The record
shall show the date of receipt, the name
and address or the name and license
number of the person from whom received,
the name of the manufacturer and
importer (if any), the model, serial num…..

I have had dealers not accept from me because I did not include a copy of my license.

Jim

ReedG
12-08-2014, 08:39 AM
Jerry, I do not know what the wording of the law is, but my local FFL dealer accepts firearms from non-FFL holders on a daily basis. I think it may be just your dealer's preference. When I send actions or rifles to an FFL gunsmith, he can accept them without me going through an FFL (at least I never have).

Hunter
12-08-2014, 09:05 AM
This bit about the sender providing an FFL copy has been perpetrated by the ATFE themselves. Here is a quote fro the ATF website:

The record
shall show the date of receipt, the name
and address or the name and license
number of the person from whom received,...

I have had dealers not accept from me because I did not include a copy of my license.

Looks like some folks don't understand "or."

rkittine
12-08-2014, 09:07 AM
According to the FFL that I use (Things have changed since the 35 years that I had an FFL), there are states that require residents to only ship firearms through an FFL on the outbound side and since the state law (like those here in New York) usurps the federal law if stricter, he checks when I am having something shipped in from and determines he has to receive it from an FFL.

The new New York law mandates that all sales inside the state involve a back ground check and FFL transfer. That includes incidental sale from one individual to another. To make it easier the state mandates a maximum fee of $10.00 for these transactions, which many FFL holders will not accept and therefore just refuse to run the firearm through their books. My guy is good about it and has a very low transfer fee for regular sales and honors the $10.00 individual sales mandate.

Bob

Joe McNeill
12-08-2014, 09:08 AM
Jerry,
Would your dealer buy a gun from some one coming into the store to just sell it? If so, what would he need to take the gun in? Just a drivers license would be my guess. I had this conversation with my local gun dealer and that is what he requires (current drivers license) when some one sends a firearm and does not have a FFL.
Regards,

Joe McNeill
SW ARkansas

rkittine
12-08-2014, 09:11 AM
In New York, an FFL holder can purchase a gun from a State Resident, or from a state with reciprocal agreements (surprisingly New York still has some of those going on, the best one is between New York and Pennsylvania) based on a drivers license, but can not purchase an firearm from someone visiting the state that is not from a state with such an agreemment. Again, state law trumps Federal when stricter.

Bob

mwezell
12-08-2014, 10:15 AM
As has been mentioned, there is no FEDERAL law that requires the receiving dealer to require an ffl from the sender. It just has to be logged in with name and address of the person that it's received from, as well as when it was received, and typical gun info, such as make model, serial number and caliber.

Jim Kobe
12-09-2014, 08:55 AM
The thing that gets my goat is the guy who demands a copy of the FFL from the shipper and yet will order a gun from "ABC Gunmaker" and won't get an FFL from them!

Wilbur
12-09-2014, 11:12 AM
It seems, and seems is the magic word, that you have to know who is (all) involved and see what they need up front. What they need is likely easier the get than to convince them they don't need it.

"Seems" that way anyhow....

tcjones
12-09-2014, 11:29 AM
For me I would find someone else to give your 35 buck or 50 bucks to for the transfer. I buy and sell all the time on Gunbroker shipped to Alaska. I don't have a FFL to send and I put that in the ad. A lot of folks send to the sporting store with FFL for transfer for rifles I buy with out an FFL, no sweat. A pistol on the other hand HAS TO BE FFL TO FFL. Good luck, Tom

drover
12-09-2014, 12:01 PM
For me I would find someone else to give your 35 buck or 50 bucks to for the transfer. I buy and sell all the time on Gunbroker shipped to Alaska. I don't have a FFL to send and I put that in the ad. A lot of folks send to the sporting store with FFL for transfer for rifles I buy with out an FFL, no sweat. A pistol on the other hand HAS TO BE FFL TO FFL. Good luck, Tom

I believe you are in error in stating that a pistol has to shipped FFL to FFL - that is only true if you are using the postal service.

Here are the relevant sources for that - Answers regarding firearms transfers, shipping, etc. are available simply by googling batf FAQ's unlicensed persons. IMO it is better to have a reference directly from the source rather than information from a forum where the answers may or may not be correct.


Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?

A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]



Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]



Q: Who may ship handguns through the U.S. Postal Service?

Federal firearm licensees may send an unloaded handgun in the mail to another FFL in customary trade shipments. Handguns also may be mailed to any officer, employee, agent, or watchman who is eligible under 18 U.S.C. 1715 to receive pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person for use in connection with his or her official duties.

However, postal service regulations must be followed. Any person proposing to mail a handgun must file with the postmaster, at the time of mailing, an affidavit signed by the addressee stating that the addressee is qualified to receive the firearm, and the affidavit must bear a certificate stating that the firearm is for the official use of the addressee. See the current Postal Manual for details.

The Postal Service recommends that all firearms be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. (See also questions “May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?” and “May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?”)

drover
12-09-2014, 12:12 PM
I know generally that GCA 68 requires an FFL to ship firearms interstate in certain conditions. I just bought, and paid for, a firearm off Gunbrocker and the seller shipped it to my local FFL. Now the seller tells me he doesn't have an FFL and my local FFL tells me he can not process the firearm without the shippers FFL. The firearm now is physically at my local FFL.
What is the law on this?

Unfortunately you did not do due diligence on your part, you should have clarified to your receiving FFL that the firearm was coming from an unlicensed individual and avoided this issue.

The BATF does not state that the FFL cannot receive from an unlicensed individual, nor does it state that it has to come from an FFL holder, leaving it up to the FFL as his option. After all it his license and livelihood on the line if something is not right. Perhaps you could convince him to accept a copy of the senders drivers license and CCW permit, if he has one, to assure him that things are on the up and up. Good luck.


Q: To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?

A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

JerrySharrett
12-09-2014, 02:55 PM
[QUOTE=drover;747424]Unfortunately you did not do due diligence on your part, you should have clarified to your receiving FFL that the firearm was coming from an unlicensed individual and avoided this issue.

I did notify the receiving FFL. Seems he doesn't watch that address anymore.

Got the gun this AM. Springfield XDM 3.8 45ACP, shoots great.

We let things get out of hand when they took JFK down, put in LBJ and passed GCA 68. GCA 68 was part of the plan to get OUR guns!!

FEDS did 175,000 one day in one day last week. Bommy Wommy is great gun salesman!!




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEJhdFOeHbs


Thanks for all the replies guys

sdean
12-09-2014, 03:17 PM
Glad you got it Jerry. Obama has been the best thing ever money wise for the gun industry at large.

drover
12-09-2014, 04:30 PM
Good deal. Really glad it worked out for you.

drover