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Tim Singleton
08-31-2014, 03:45 PM
I'm wondering what most ppc shooters use for priming tool?
Is there something other than a one at a time seating tool such as the Sinclair that will give precise primer seating?

Thanks
Tim

David Halblom
08-31-2014, 05:12 PM
I'm wondering what most ppc shooters use for priming tool?
Is there something other than a one at a time seating tool such as the Sinclair that will give precise primer seating?

Thanks
Tim

a RCBS priming tool. After watching a Lee tool set off the whole tray of primers ( no one hurt, just lots of dirty shorts) I switched to a K&M and a couple of other one at a time tools. No slower, very precise, and VERY safe

abintx
08-31-2014, 10:08 PM
After trying many this thingy I kept: http://www.amazon.com/RCBS-90200-Hand-Priming-Tool/dp/B000PW71LO/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1409537022&sr=8-2&keywords=rcbs+auto+priming+tool In fact, I have two. :)

Dusty Stevens
08-31-2014, 11:03 PM
Ive worn out a sinclair tool and never changed the shellholder. Happily bought another just like it and hope it primes as many cases in its life.

Boyd Allen
09-01-2014, 12:29 AM
21st Century's tool is a piece of functional art. I like mine a lot.

Wilbur
09-01-2014, 12:51 AM
One thing I've seen folks doing that I don't like is using the adjustment on some of the tools for seating depth. The primer needs to go all the way to the bottom - then stop squeezing the fool thing! I'm not saying don't buy a tool that has this feature. I'm saying don't use it.

John Kielly
09-01-2014, 03:36 AM
.. which is exactly what can be done withe the K & M dial gauge tool. I wouldn't be using one if I could still feel primers into the pocket, but the arthritis in my thumbs has put paid to that.

alinwa
09-02-2014, 01:52 AM
I would still use one because "feel" changes by the day/week/month/year/amount of coffee in the system AND because I believe in precise crush. Anyone who thinks they can crush primers consistently by feel alone is fooling theyselves


IMO

al

Jim Pag
09-02-2014, 07:45 AM
21st Century's tool is a piece of functional art. I like mine a lot.

I'll agree with u Boyd. John's priming tool is the cat's ass.

Joe Salt
09-02-2014, 08:04 AM
Another plus 1 with Boyd on the 21st Century tool its easy to adjust and has a good feel for big hands.

Joe Salt

Tim Singleton
09-02-2014, 11:18 AM
Short fat fingers digging out one primer at a time and loading into the tool one at a time was what I wasn't to thrilled with. I didn't know if there was anything out there that would seat precisely that wasn't a one at a time tool

mks
09-02-2014, 11:20 AM
I would still use one because "feel" changes by the day/week/month/year/amount of coffee in the system AND because I believe in precise crush. Anyone who thinks they can crush primers consistently by feel alone is fooling theyselves


IMO

al

Al,
Have you ever measured primers? If not, you may want to try it sometime. I measured ten Wolf SRM's (what I had at the time) and found 0.005" difference in cup height, 0.006" difference in anvil protrusion, and 0.003" difference in total primer height. Thus if one seats primers to a given dimension set in the priming tool, then they are getting a range of crush values.

This variation in primer dimensions raises a fundamental question that I think may be important: What is it that we want to be the same every time? Is it the crush of the anvil into the primer compound, or the seating of the cup relative to the primer pocket? If we make one consistent, then the other won't be, not without measuring and selecting primers with particular dimensions. K&M makes a primer tool (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxRZsPjfzHk) that, if you insert the primer upside down in the measuring position, will make the anvil crush consistent. I don't know of a commercially available product to make the cup seating consistent. One could bore a hole for the anvils to extend into in the shelf of the K&M tool to accomplish this.

I shot groups with primers seated with consistent anvil crush with the K&M tool, and primers seated by feel with a Lee. There was no statistically significant difference in the groups. I am curious if anyone has gotten different results. Maybe there really is a difference, but it takes more shots to see, or maybe I was especially good that day with the Lee. It would be interesting to seat some primers poorly on purpose, and see if it changed the results.

Cheers,
Keith

adamsgt
09-02-2014, 11:54 AM
Another plus 1 with Boyd on the 21st Century tool its easy to adjust and has a good feel for big hands.

Joe Salt

I like the RCBS APS tool. I can load three hundred primers in strips while watching a 30 min TV program. Also, you grasp the handle with your fingers to seat the primers not your thumb. The arthritis in my thumbs makes operation of a 21st Century tool painful.

Wayne Shaw
09-02-2014, 02:39 PM
Well I've never seen a tray full of primers go off in a LEE. I have about 3 of them in us, large small and and one marked for pistol. The only part I have ever worn out was the pot metal round headed pusher. It just gets a divet worn in it. Easily fixed.

They don't have tight tolerances, and if you shake them around for some reason, a primer can get flipped under the tray cover. I've even had one or two try to seat crooked. No flash-bangs. And I am not a fan of one-at-a-time priming. I want to load a tray, and not have to worry until that 100 is gone. And you can "adjust" them so you seat the primer well before running out of handle travel.

I've used RCBS and Hornady tools, and the 21st Century body for the replacement of the LEE. The simple LEE gets my vote. I think I have enough parts to keep me going for quite a while.

Hunter
09-02-2014, 03:02 PM
I've used ... the 21st Century body for the replacement of the LEE. The simple LEE gets my vote. I think I have enough parts to keep me going for quite a while.

I liked the LEE tool, also -- until I broke two handles (round tray, auto-prime model). I've lost enthusiasm with 'em. BTW, how do you use the 21st Century body with the LEE tool?

Wayne Shaw
09-02-2014, 04:23 PM
I haven't broken a handle yet........yet. I think at first, 21st started by making a "body" and you used the LEE tray and plunger. Don't know if they even make them anymore. I found with certain primers/brass/shellholder, the tool was a bit shy of having enough stroke for good feel, even with it at it's highest point. Some work OK, some not. They do have a good lever/handle.

Tim Singleton
09-02-2014, 04:50 PM
And you can "adjust" them so you seat the primer well before running out of handle travel.



Lee is what I have now. How do they adjust??

Hunter
09-02-2014, 05:42 PM
if you are breaking handles....your primers do not fit your pockets, or you are squeezing way too hard after seating.

You may be onto something there -- maybe I should have tried reaming out my primer pockets or being satisfied with not being able to close the bolt because of a not-fully-seated primer, rather than giving up on the pot metal handle. :)

BTW, I changed to the one-at-a-time version and enjoy the new-found ease of seating primers -- even without reaming out the primer pockets. :)

alinwa
09-03-2014, 12:18 AM
Al,
Have you ever measured primers? If not, you may want to try it sometime. I measured ten Wolf SRM's (what I had at the time) and found 0.005" difference in cup height, 0.006" difference in anvil protrusion, and 0.003" difference in total primer height. Thus if one seats primers to a given dimension set in the priming tool, then they are getting a range of crush values.

This variation in primer dimensions raises a fundamental question that I think may be important: What is it that we want to be the same every time? Is it the crush of the anvil into the primer compound, or the seating of the cup relative to the primer pocket? If we make one consistent, then the other won't be, not without measuring and selecting primers with particular dimensions. K&M makes a primer tool (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxRZsPjfzHk) that, if you insert the primer upside down in the measuring position, will make the anvil crush consistent. I don't know of a commercially available product to make the cup seating consistent. One could bore a hole for the anvils to extend into in the shelf of the K&M tool to accomplish this.

I shot groups with primers seated with consistent anvil crush with the K&M tool, and primers seated by feel with a Lee. There was no statistically significant difference in the groups. I am curious if anyone has gotten different results. Maybe there really is a difference, but it takes more shots to see, or maybe I was especially good that day with the Lee. It would be interesting to seat some primers poorly on purpose, and see if it changed the results.

Cheers,
Keith

Yes I have and it's a good question but I've found very good "crush" consistency within lots of not-Wolf primers. For me the function of the adjustable ram in regards to Wolf primers is simply to seat them deep enough that they go off!

LOL


al