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center22
11-21-2013, 12:41 PM
A gradual decline in a new barrels accuracy

Have you ever had a new barrel installed by a competent rimfire gunsmith and had it shoot "lights out" in competition for several months? Then, shortly thereafter, experience a gradual decline in accuracy, using the same lot of great ammo that won many matches?

I have personally experienced this on a least two barrels from different manufacturers. Also, several local club members have had new custom rifles built, that were extremely competitive in local matches at first ... then the dreaded gradual decline in accuracy. I can't speak for all the others, but I clean my barrel's bore regularly ... using caution, with bore guide and good quality rimfire bronze bristle brush and quality solvents like Rimfire Blend and Pro-Shot ... also use ISSO in the chamber when needed.

Are there any answers to why a new barrels accuracy may slowly deteriorate over a relatively short period of time? John

PS: One smith vaguely mentioned a glazing issue.

tim
11-21-2013, 06:27 PM
Get somebody with a bore scope to look at it. I'd suspect something in your cleaning.

center22
11-21-2013, 09:37 PM
Get somebody with a bore scope to look at it. I'd suspect something in your cleaning.

Tim: I own a bore scope and cannot detect a leading or fouling problem. Has anyone else experienced a gradual decline in accuracy? John

tim
11-21-2013, 10:53 PM
The other thing that it could be is that whatever you've been doing to break in and maintain the chamber might be too aggressive and it's changed. Typically barrels just don't fall off after a few months. Next I'd really check to see if something happend to your bedding or stock.

center22
11-22-2013, 12:30 AM
The other thing that it could be is that whatever you've been doing to break in and maintain the chamber might be too aggressive and it's changed. Typically barrels just don't fall off after a few months. Next I'd really check to see if something happend to your bedding or stock.

Seriously doubt that I did anything to change the chamber dimensions on two barrels, from different manufacturers These barrels were shooting great for three to four months ... then just gradual decline began after that.

I spoke with a gentleman a while back, who laps rimfire barrels for a living (not BC). Something he said during the discussion, which is detrimental to rimfire accuracy, I suspect may be occurring ... after time. I will wait and see if others have something to share. John

Fred J
11-22-2013, 12:58 AM
If the bore gets too smooth, you lose the ability to properly lube the bore. A de-glazing may be in order.

linekin
11-22-2013, 04:36 AM
I haven't heard of glazing yet in the brief time I've been shooting RFBR. Could someone please explain it & then de-glazing?
John, hope you figure it out!

Keith

Fred J
11-22-2013, 11:14 AM
When a bore gets supper smooth, it loses it ability to retain lube from the bullet. That surface then must be roughed up so to speak, to help retain the lube. If you don't know how to do this, send the barrel back to your smith and have him do it. That is how several barrel mfgr's suggested.

rkcal22
11-22-2013, 01:18 PM
What part of shooting a 22 lr target grade bullet with lube have to do with making a SS barrel smooth (glazed) or is it the over use of products such as ISSO. ?

Fred J
11-22-2013, 02:34 PM
Friction and over cleaning. It's your gun, do what you must.

tim
11-22-2013, 03:32 PM
What part of shooting a 22 lr target grade bullet with lube have to do with making a SS barrel smooth (glazed) or is it the over use of products such as ISSO. ?

Contrary to some opinions, IOSSO is abrasive and it's possible to overdo it. The reason I mentioned this earlier to the OP is that some guys try and polish the hell out of their chambers with it until they have a compromised chamber. It takes very little to take a tenth or two of metal off and you now have an out of round chamber. Barrels simply do not fade in a couple months.

pacecil
11-22-2013, 03:52 PM
Glazing is something that occurs on cast iron - not likely to occur on steel. Anyway, as surfaces get very smooth they don't need a thick lubricant film. Roughing of new surfaces is probably done more to obtain a good fit, that is to establish parallel moving surfaces, than to hold a lubricant film. Parallel surfaces is something you really wouldn't need to establish between a bullet and barrel. There is very likely some deposits (lead, tin, copper, carbon,oxides, etc) forming on bore as more rounds are fired thru it but even considering these I doubt the change in accuracy is due to a change in friction between bullet and barrel.
As time passes with a barrel there are many other changes taking place that I would suspect rather than "friction". For example, the SHAPE of the bore and crown, the ammo, the shooter himself, the gun itself, and even conditions!
Hate to say it, but bench rest shooters often have trouble telling differences in variations that occur in their "testing" and changes that might be taking place in their equipment.

DJB in Wi
11-22-2013, 06:12 PM
Hi Center22........I have had the same thing happen. When the rifle accuracy seems to fall off I would run some Iosso through them, and the rifles started shooting very well after that. I used a bore scope, and the barrels looked clean. I placed some Iosso on a nylon 7MM brush and go back and forth a few inches at a time till I get close to the muzzle, and bring it back to the breach end. It really does bring them back to life. Just be darn sure you get it all out before you start shooting again. Doug

tim
11-22-2013, 07:18 PM
Glazing is something that occurs on cast iron - not likely to occur on steel. Anyway, as surfaces get very smooth they don't need a thick lubricant film. Roughing of new surfaces is probably done more to obtain a good fit, that is to establish parallel moving surfaces, than to hold a lubricant film. Parallel surfaces is something you really wouldn't need to establish between a bullet and barrel. There is very likely some deposits (lead, tin, copper, carbon,oxides, etc) forming on bore as more rounds are fired thru it but even considering these I doubt the change in accuracy is due to a change in friction between bullet and barrel.
As time passes with a barrel there are many other changes taking place that I would suspect rather than "friction". For example, the SHAPE of the bore and crown, the ammo, the shooter himself, the gun itself, and even conditions!
Hate to say it, but bench rest shooters often have trouble telling differences in variations that occur in their "testing" and changes that might be taking place in their equipment.

Copper??? Tin??? Cecil did you wander over here by accident?

pacecil
11-23-2013, 11:14 AM
I've been off this forum for a while but I'm happy to see you are still around. I'd forgotten you require an explanation for most things technical, As to your question about copper and tin: Tin is very important element found in bullet alloys, and then some 22 bullets have a copper coating, and may even have trace copper in the alloy. I know you probably consider your bullets are 100% pure lead in which case you won't have to worry about finding any metals but lead in the bore.
I knew you would reply to my post but I thought, rather than the deposits, it would be about my comment about whether the guy starting this thread truly had a problem, or whether he was just misreading his data.

tim
11-23-2013, 05:58 PM
I've been off this forum for a while but I'm happy to see you are still around. I'd forgotten you require an explanation for most things technical, As to your question about copper and tin: Tin is very important element found in bullet alloys, and then some 22 bullets have a copper coating, and may even have trace copper in the alloy. I know you probably consider your bullets are 100% pure lead in which case you won't have to worry about finding any metals but lead in the bore.
I knew you would reply to my post but I thought, rather than the deposits, it would be about my comment about whether the guy starting this thread truly had a problem, or whether he was just misreading his data.

OK I'm with you. Very useful data here for those that are going to be using the copper plated match ammo.

crb
11-24-2013, 09:58 AM
For the OP I would definitely inspect the crown under magnification and good lighting. Also inspect the full length of each land for any cleaning rod wear.

It could also be something other than the bbl. Bedding, weakening fp spring ,,,,, ??????

Wilbur
11-24-2013, 11:50 AM
Something else to look at would be the possibility of ammo degradation. That killer ammo might not be so killer after some months.

tim
11-24-2013, 12:40 PM
Something else to look at would be the possibility of ammo degradation. That killer ammo might not be so killer after some months.

Now this one is interesting. Wilbur, do you have specific information regarding this? The reason I ask is that I've always wondered about this but there seems to be more than a few big matches that have been won with stuff as much as 2-3 years old. I've often asked wether it's age or proper storage.

crb
11-24-2013, 02:42 PM
Heck, for all we know the ammo may get better as it ages up to a certain point.

ebb
11-24-2013, 10:16 PM
Could this be a scope slowly going away? I had one once that was brand new and after a few months it got bad and then got worse. The maker replaced it and about a year later same thing only the second time a good J=B cleaning was all it needed.

pacecil
11-25-2013, 11:53 AM
I once bought a brand new Anschutz. The first time I shot it I fired a 400-40X. It seems as the months went by and I fired it more I had trouble shooting a 400 with it every time. Must have been something was just going bad. You try to keep your guns good and pure but they just go bad!

tim
11-25-2013, 08:01 PM
Was it cleaned on any kind of regular basis?

The Jet
11-26-2013, 04:53 AM
Wow theres one at every party. Guns going bad lol .Is there a reason that this has happened to the original poster ? Or is treating it with ISSo the way to go ? Because I would really like to know, please post when you find a suitable solution so we can all learn a thing or two.
kind regards Ben

xs hedspace
11-26-2013, 12:50 PM
Muzzle wear from cleaning? Try recrowning, like 1/4" back. Carbon ring in front of chamber? Calfee once mentioned wear at 6 O'clock in front of the chamber from priming compound grit settling there. My $.02......

tim
11-26-2013, 02:18 PM
Wow theres one at every party. Guns going bad lol .Is there a reason that this has happened to the original poster ? Or is treating it with ISSo the way to go ? Because I would really like to know, please post when you find a suitable solution so we can all learn a thing or two.
kind regards Ben

If this was that easy nobody would have issues. The point some folks are trying to make is that it is less likely the guns simply changed and more likely that the OP might have changed them through cleaning, chemicals, and or damage. When these things happen you need to go down the list, objectively, to find answers.
The three most likely suspects are the
OP changed the interior of the barrel, the crown, or the chamber. One of the biggest and toughest to detect is chambers that are changed during breaking. Some guns can override this dome cannot. Ant time an abrasive is put in a bore raises a question.

MIKECAMERON
11-27-2013, 02:58 PM
I would suspect your cleaning regimen.I have several top competitive rifles Sporter and heavy and the only time they have fallen off even a little is when I didn't do a good job of cleaning.
The heavy I am shooting has about 60 thousand rounds through it and it shoots as good now as it did the first case.I have heard of glazing but have never had it happen to me, if you clean them right they will not fall off gradually.Shilen ratchets have a tendancy to just quit shooting but it happens abruptly and not gradually they just all of a sudden quit shooting, it has been rumored that it has something to do with the softness of their steel.I shoot a broughton and a Rock Creek and as long as I do the correct cleaning job they shoot.

Mike Cameron

MIKECAMERON
11-27-2013, 03:04 PM
OK I'm with you. Very useful data here for those that are going to be using the copper plated match ammo.

Isnt copper or any type of plated ammo against most RFBR rules?

alinwa
11-27-2013, 06:36 PM
tim you're a sick man. I like that

al

tim
11-27-2013, 09:50 PM
Isnt copper or any type of plated ammo against most RFBR rules?

Mike, meet Cecil . From time to time he shows up with stuff that is truly bizarre. He is in the keyboard shooter hall of fame. Stay tuned.

The Jet
11-28-2013, 03:49 AM
Seem there is so much said about cleaning but nearly everyone has a different idea on it. Looking through the shooting forums some swear that a 22 should never be cleaned. I can't understand this point of view as the rifle never came dirty so I will only put one away clean. Now theres clean and theres clean and this is the confusing thing to me. I rarey touch my rifles with a bronze brush but instead when I have completed shooting I run two patches of pro shot cleaning product through them followed by two clean patches. Actually I use the the wool cleaning thingos (GHD) that have the hole through the middle of them because I can squeeze them out a bit wider with the small tightening aluminuim nut that holds them on the jag. after two patches through the second one normally comes out pretty clean. I also do it while the barrel is still warm as I figured this would give the best chance for the pro shot penetrating the debris in the barrel. I have only just purchased my first benchrest rifle which as a Shillen 4 grooze hatchet barrel so do I need to change my cleaning methods? Like Mike I would love to have this barrel for a long time. I never meant to sound silly with the rifle going bad comment but it did put a smile on my face. I do not want to hijack this thread I thought that it would also help the original OP
kind regards Ben

bob finger
11-28-2013, 09:26 AM
Ben: Go to a big BR match and watch how shooters clean. Next weekend at The Barn there will be 100 shooters more or less. There will be 100 cleaning processes more or less. About the only common ground will be almost every one of those shooters will "clean" between each card. If you watch carefully and ask questions you will find that there are some common ideas, but none are universal. What each and every one of these shooters is striving for is to "clean" before accuracy can fall off.

Here is how I do it for whatever it is worth. A wet patch followed by three full strokes with a wet bronze brush followed by four dry patches. By wet I mean a mixture of 1/2 Marvel Mystery Oil and 1/2 RimFire blend. Try to do this while the bore is still warm from the last card shot. I clean the tuner insides less often, but at least at the end of a match with a wet patch followed by 2 or 3 dry patches (3 inch square patches). I wipe off the bolt face after every card and make sure the bolt has a wee bit of oil on it and the lugs have a bit of grease on them. I also clean the wax build up off the extractor cuts (or around the cone if a cone breech) and the loading port with a Q-Tip once or twice a match as time allows. And last but not least I use Zeiss lens cleaning wipes on my scope and my glasses at least before the match starts. Shooting indoors I go through a lot of lens wipes. Finally after the last cleaning of the match the bronze brush goes in the trash can. bob

glp
11-28-2013, 09:52 AM
What is the serious rimfire shooters opinion of straight Hoppes #9? Tks. Greg

bob finger
11-28-2013, 11:39 AM
GLP: Sorry, I don't know the answer to your question. I keep some at home because I love the smell of the stuff, always have. I use it on shotguns and pistols. bob

tim
11-28-2013, 12:07 PM
What is the serious rimfire shooters opinion of straight Hoppes #9? Tks. Greg

Almost anything is better than straight dry patching.....BUT, why do folks not understand the benefit from using solvents specifically designed for .22's ? Most modern rimfire solvents are designed very well for their intended purpose and tend to be citrus based. As stated, there are lots of methods but probably the single most widely used would be Rimfire Blend. I've never had an issue with it, never heard of one.

cjd223
11-28-2013, 06:53 PM
I was almost "run out of town on a rail" on another forum when I even mentioned that I use a bronze brush. You would think I had slapped their mothers.:D

The Jet
11-28-2013, 10:22 PM
Thankyou Bob
I would love to come to the barn but its a bit far to go from Australia. I do mean I would love to one day come over and watch you guys shoot. I have been scared off cleaning with a bronze brush by the keyboard experts but I will purchase some for my new rifle and do as you have said you do. I do not want to try and reinvent the wheel so I will take your method as gospel.
Again I hope the original poster finds the answer to his question of his barrels going off and posts his findings. It is certainly a great resource to be able to communicate with like minded competitors on this forum.
kind regards Ben

center22
11-28-2013, 11:52 PM
Thankyou Bob
I would love to come to the barn but its a bit far to go from Australia. I do mean I would love to one day come over and watch you guys shoot. I have been scared off cleaning with a bronze brush by the keyboard experts but I will purchase some for my new rifle and do as you have said you do. I do not want to try and reinvent the wheel so I will take your method as gospel.
Again I hope the original poster finds the answer to his question of his barrels going off and posts his findings. It is certainly a great resource to be able to communicate with like minded competitors on this forum.
kind regards Ben

Ben,
I am the OP and I doubt seriously that cleaning with a bronze brush will harm the bore of a rimfire barrel, if used properly. I believe many prone shooters, who use factory Anschutz barrels with deep conventional rifling want to avoid removing the wax from the deeper rifling, because in some cases it may take a couple of hundred rounds to bring the accuracy back. Not so, with the custom barrel used in rimfire benchrest ... which have shallow rifling referred to as minimally invasive. These MI barrels appear to shoot more consistently when cleaned between targets.

For those who believe a bronze brush will damage their rimfire barrel, they should take a look at a video of Bill Calfee lapping a barrel. He goes to town on that barrel using a cast lead lap with silicon carbide valve grinding compound. One must admit that his taper lapped barrels shoot extremely well and win many matches.

As for my issue with the gradual decline in accuracy. I haven't addressed the problem yet, but I am inclined to try the method in post #13 by DJB in WI. Doug suggests using ISSO on a fiber brush working several inches at a time. I will be taking two rifles to the ARA matches at the Barn next weekend. Hopefully, I will be able to get one of them to shoot some decent targets. Thanks to those who posted many good suggestions. John

DJB in Wi
11-29-2013, 10:50 AM
Hi John......As I have stated, I have had the same problem in a few rifles, and after cleaning with the Iosso, the rifles started shooting again. As long as the barrel is not too worn or has other issues that are affecting accuracy,it works. I have talked to a others back home, and they seen the same results. I am also going to the Barn and I will be more then happy to discuss this with you. I always carry Iosso with me. Doug

HuskerP7M8
11-29-2013, 11:05 AM
Ben,
I will be taking two rifles to the ARA matches at the Barn next weekend. Hopefully, I will be able to get one of them to shoot some decent targets. Thanks to those who posted many good suggestions. John

John,

If you wish, have Dan Killough point me out at the Barn and we'll visit.
I'll be there Fri-Sun messing around and trying to gather data. When are you coming?

Landy

center22
11-29-2013, 12:44 PM
John,

If you wish, have Dan Killough point me out at the Barn and we'll visit.
I'll be there Fri-Sun messing around and trying to gather data. When are you coming?

Landy

Landy,
I plan to leave Miami around 11:00 PM on Thursday evening and drive straight through. If things go smoothly, I should be at the Barn between noon and 1:00 PM ... will ask Dan to point you out. I'm still attempting to fine tune my rifles, however the weather (windy & rain) hasn't been cooperating. I'll be staying at the Best Western. John Austen

center22
11-29-2013, 01:00 PM
Hi John......As I have stated, I have had the same problem in a few rifles, and after cleaning with the Iosso, the rifles started shooting again. As long as the barrel is not too worn or has other issues that are affecting accuracy,it works. I have talked to a others back home, and they seen the same results. I am also going to the Barn and I will be more then happy to discuss this with you. I always carry Iosso with me. Doug

Hi Doug, I have the ISSO and a good fiber brush, but haven't been able to use your procedure yet, because I have company down now. Things should ease up starting Sunday. Hope to see you at the Barn and also at Manatee in January shooting a three gun and unlimited IR50 match. Thanks for you help and advice. John

DJB in Wi
11-29-2013, 03:19 PM
Hi John.....I have tried different types of cleaning with the Iosso. Some brushes like the Proshot nylon brushes are too soft. The nylon Boretech (7MM) brushes are more aggressive. The Iosso blue brushes in a smaller caliber will work also. I go through the breach end with a felt marker mark, marked on the rod to prevent the brush from exiting the crown. I go back and fourth about 5 times per every 3 inches till I get close to the crown, and pull the rod back out the breach end. After being sure all the Iosso is cleaned out of the bore with several wet patches of SC or kroil and, around the breach end, you will like what you see on paper. From what you have described about your accuracy falling off, I really believe the Iosso cleaning will bring it back. The trick is to be sure you use a brush that will do the job. A smaller caliber brush or one that is what I consider too soft makes the job a little less apt to work. There are so many ways to clean, but after a while most shooters will find that the accuracy is falling off and needs to be cleaned with a mild abrasive to bring it back. Looking forward to seeing you again, at the barn. Doug

center22
11-29-2013, 03:34 PM
Hi John.....I have tried different types of cleaning with the Iosso. Some brushes like the Proshot nylon brushes are too soft. The nylon Boretech (7MM) brushes are more aggressive. The Iosso blue brushes in a smaller caliber will work also. I go through the breach end with a felt marker mark, marked on the rod to prevent the brush from exiting the crown. I go back and fourth about 5 times per every 3 inches till I get close to the crown, and pull the rod back out the breach end. After being sure all the Iosso is cleaned out of the bore with several wet patches of SC or kroil and, around the breach end, you will like what you see on paper. From what you have described about your accuracy falling off, I really believe the Iosso cleaning will bring it back. The trick is to be sure you use a brush that will do the job. A smaller caliber brush or one that is what I consider too soft makes the job a little less apt to work. There are so many ways to clean, but after a while most shooters will find that the accuracy is falling off and needs to be cleaned with a mild abrasive to bring it back. Looking forward to seeing you again, at the barn. Doug

Doug,
I happen to have two of the IOSSO "Eliminator" Bore Brushes in Rifle .22 caliber. They have the hard blue bristles. I will use the procedure, as per your instructions. Thanks again for all the advice you've provided. Look forward to seeing you again at the Barn. John

The Jet
11-30-2013, 02:42 AM
John Thankyou for that and Doug as well. I will also find some of these brushes and some isso to have in my kit bag. I will clean as per Bobs regime as I have stated you have to choose something and stick to it. But if I have a falling off of performance I will use Dougs suggestion. Seems like this thread has been very productive for John and also for myself and anyone else who will surely read it. This is great stuff to be able to learn from such an experienced group of shooters.
Kind regards Ben

Pete Wass
11-30-2013, 11:12 AM
Almost anything is better than straight dry patching.....BUT, why do folks not understand the benefit from using solvents specifically designed for .22's ? Most modern rimfire solvents are designed very well for their intended purpose and tend to be citrus based. As stated, there are lots of methods but probably the single most widely used would be Rimfire Blend. I've never had an issue with it, never heard of one.

Tim,

What does the citrus base do that other solvents don't?

Thanks,

Pete

Fred J
11-30-2013, 12:27 PM
When I started back shooting competitively, I asked an Oldtimer how often he cleaned his barrel. His answer, " I listen to the barrel, it will tell me when it's time to clean". After that, I watched how he treated his barrel. I saw him run a patch thru it bore at the beginning of the year and then again at the last shoot of the year. Ed Shilen once told me I was over doing it.

bob finger
11-30-2013, 12:35 PM
Fred: The trick is to clean the barrel before accuracy falls off. Only you can decide when that is. Clean it before it falls off on the next target you shoot. I agree any more than that is over cleaning. My problem is knowing when accuracy is about to fall off. From the looks of some of my targets I should be cleaning in between rows sometimes. bob

DJB in Wi
11-30-2013, 03:10 PM
Bob and others...........One thing I have learned is, if you use solvents and a brush, you are taking all the wax out of the barrel. After doing that you have to start all over trying too get the peak accuracy back. I have some rifles that prefer a patch with kroil on it and then 1 dry patch after each target. This will not take the wax out, and these rifles will still continue to shoot we'll. Eventually you will have to use a brush to get the carbon-lead build up out. Other barrels need a brush more often etc. etc.. A barrels personality is like a women's. Don't laugh. You have to learn how to keep them happy, or you will not be happy. Until you learn how to keep your barrel happy, there will always be times when you will be scratching you head wondering why your shots are not going where they are supposed to. To make matters worse, things will change and you have to stay on top of it or pay the price. That can be very hard to do. Bottom line is you have to experiment and find what it takes to keep your rifle happy. I have seen a lot of shooters that feel a good cleaning is all it takes. You have to take each barrel individually and find out exactly what it takes to keep it shooting good. (Some) shooters claim they have a way of cleaning all their rifles the same, and seeing good results. I have shot with some of these shooters, and all the sudden they let their neighbors know that their barrel just fouled out. LOL It just shows that the cleaning procedure needs a little extra attention now and then. There are a zillion ways to clean, and of those, you have to find the one your rifle (barrel) really likes. Only then is it happy, happy, happy. Doug:D

bob finger
11-30-2013, 03:37 PM
Doug: We can agree and disagree.

It takes a great deal of effort, time and energy to get all the wax out of a rim fire barrel. I doubt many of us would go through that amount of effort on a regular basis, nor should we. As you said it depends on the barrel make up. With my current cleaning procedure and MI barrels it will come back after about 3-5 fouling shots. I can live with that. Double that number indoors to warm up a cold barrel.

Solvents will help get rid of stuff in the barrel without damage. The wrong solvent will do perhaps serious damage. Dry patches are probably better than the wrong solvent. The last thing I want to run in a barrel is some center fire blend that has Ammonia in it.

And I fully agree with you that each barrel demands its own cleaning routine. The problem is figuring out what that is. As long as my barrel is shooting I stick to what has been working. When that barrel falls off, then it is time to pull out the Iosso and see if I can bring it back.

I have changed my cleaning procedure over time. I used to be one of the "don't use a bronze brush" crowd except on the chamber and leade. And at another time I was a "use a bit of Iosso after every card" proponent. Who knows what I will do next year...bob

DJB in Wi
11-30-2013, 05:33 PM
Hi Bob.....There are many ways to clean and many of those ways work. A person can't argue with success and I certainly don't want anyone thinking my ways are better then any others. You have lots of great ideas and a great knowledge of the game and I respect that. If it works don't try to fix something that ain't broke. Hope to see you at the Barn. Doug

tim
11-30-2013, 06:37 PM
Tim,

What does the citrus base do that other solvents don't?

Thanks,

Pete

Centerfire solvents are quite adept at heat related carbon and particularly jacket material.Rimfire blend with the citrus element does real well at removing anything with lube/ wax in a bore, a completely different animal. More and more general purpose cleaners are citrus based, even high end wheel cleaners made in Germany. They do a great job without attacking soft and/or porous metals.
Bottom line it seems to get down to metal with the least amount of effort.

tim
11-30-2013, 06:41 PM
When I started back shooting competitively, I asked an Oldtimer how often he cleaned his barrel. His answer, " I listen to the barrel, it will tell me when it's time to clean". After that, I watched how he treated his barrel. I saw him run a patch thru it bore at the beginning of the year and then again at the last shoot of the year. Ed Shilen once told me I was over doing it.

That , folks is what is called " bad advice". Always seems to come from an " old timer" .
Best advice I ever heard was from Gene Davis, who built more than a few good guns. He was saying that he wanted his barrel " consistant". He said it was pretty straight forward, "I can repeat clean".
For all the barrel whisperers out there, you better pray it doe sent tell you it's ready to be cleaned in the middle of a State, regional, or national match.

Pete Wass
11-30-2013, 09:48 PM
Centerfire solvents are quite adept at heat related carbon and particularly jacket material.Rimfire blend with the citrus element does real well at removing anything with lube/ wax in a bore, a completely animal. More and more general purpose cleaners are citrus based, even high end wheel cleaners made in Germany. They do a great job without attacking soft and/or porous metals.
Bottom line it seems to get down to metal with the least amount of effort.

Thanks Tim,

I suspected it cut the wax. Guess I have to re-think my solvents.

Pete

Bill Wynne
12-01-2013, 08:57 AM
A gradual decline in a new barrels accuracy


Are there any answers to why a new barrels accuracy may slowly deteriorate over a relatively short period of time? John


PS: One smith vaguely mentioned a glazing issue.

Could it be that your tuner or crown are not properly cleaned?

Concho Bill