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vicvanb
10-16-2013, 11:16 PM
The Senate voted 81 to 18 and the House voted 285 to 144 to open up the government and extend the federal debt ceiling. Tomorrow it will be business as usual.

So what was gained by shutting down the government for 16 days and coming within a few hours of setting the USA up for default?

Was the ACA defunded or delayed? Republican Senator McCain was quoted as saying that the defunding effort was a "fools errand that deceived people."

The media is reporting that the shutdown cost the economy $24 billion.

Are we in for a repeat in January or February when the same issues return?

HCP
10-17-2013, 07:27 AM
The US could NOT have defaulted on it's debt. As required by The Constitution, the President is required to pay the debt first and foremost, Fourteenth Amendment, section Four.

The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.

Yea, I know,Our President was willing to twist this to fit his own meaning. He, they wanted to raise the debt ceiling to piss away more of YOUR money. The guvmint takes in more than enough money to service the debt, so it was NOT about paying incurred debt. It was about having the permission spend more period.

The nit-wits in the useless news media spread the propaganda endlessly. The only way we could have defaulted would be if our Imperial President, ignored the Constitution (which he swore to uphold) and broke the law. But wait a minute he does both on a daily basis and the rest of the ruling class does the same so I guess you are right, we would have defaulted. Good deal, we have once again raised the already un-payable debt and smacked our kids with more of it.

HovisKM
10-17-2013, 08:05 AM
The US could NOT have defaulted on it's debt. As required by The Constitution, the President is required to pay the debt first and foremost, Fourteenth Amendment, section Four.

The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.

Yea, I know,Our President was willing to twist this to fit his own meaning. He, they wanted to raise the debt ceiling to piss away more of YOUR money. The guvmint takes in more than enough money to service the debt, so it was NOT about paying incurred debt. It was about having the permission spend more period.

The nit-wits in the useless news media spread the propaganda endlessly. The only way we could have defaulted would be if our Imperial President, ignored the Constitution (which he swore to uphold) and broke the law. But wait a minute he does both on a daily basis and the rest of the ruling class does the same so I guess you are right, we would have defaulted. Good deal, we have once again raised the already un-payable debt and smacked our kids with more of it.


Very good post!!!!

Hovis

qewing
10-17-2013, 08:24 AM
Persanally, I would have voted to open the government, but NOT to raise the debt limit. Perhaps I would have voted to raise the debt limit but limit the amount to that needed to service the debt, so the sheeple could not blame the GOP.

ReedG
10-17-2013, 08:47 AM
The record clearly shows that the Republicans have tried repeatedly to pass a bill that would fund the budget, with the exception of the AHCA. The Democrats would not compromise and would not allow a vote on anything less than total funding. The whole shutdown lunacy this time is totally on the Democrats.

Having said that, if we get our heads out of our butts and stop the schoolyard haranguing about Republican this or Democrat that, there seriously is no defense of the Congress we now have. The House and Senate are the most useless, ego maniacal downright thieves and criminals that have ever been amassed.

SHAME ON US FOR PUTTING THEM THERE ... DOUBLE SHAME ON US FOR LEAVING THEM THERE ...

thumper4fun
10-17-2013, 09:39 AM
The US could NOT have defaulted on it's debt. As required by The Constitution, the President is required to pay the debt first and foremost, Fourteenth Amendment, section Four.

HCP, don't confuse Vicvanb with facts. We all know he gets his information from the fear mongering liberal media and left leaning democrat blogs. He's a democrat, always has been, always will be. Regardless of the path his party takes him down.

Let's take a quick look at what his president said about raising the debt limit. "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government can not pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. ....Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that "the buck stops here." Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."

Here's another one of my favorites from Obama, “today I’m pledging to cut the deficit we inherited in half by the end of my first term in office. This will not be easy. It will require us to make difficult decisions and face challenges we’ve long neglected. But I refuse to leave our children with a debt that they cannot repay — and that means taking responsibility right now, in this administration, for getting our spending under control.”

We can not sustain the path we are on, that is not an opinion it is simple math.

At the end of the day the government shutdown may help the big government spend drunk liberals during the mid-term elections. But as usual 'we the people' will be the big losers. The middle class will continue to shrink, debt will continue to rise, rights will continue to disappear and simple minded folks will be celebrating that their party won the tug of war until one day the only thing to fight over is scraps from the elitist's garbage. Who will be celebrating then?

GerryM
10-17-2013, 09:43 AM
More Kool aid from VIC.
It showed strength in the Republican party. Mc Cain? of all people. Everyone knows what he is and it certainly isn't a Republican.
He about as conservative as Obama. There are others too.

When The ACA was passed it was passed without even being READ by the Members. POLOSI Lets hurry up and Vote on this , so we can open it up to see what'
s in it"""

ONE OF OUR GOVERNMENTS FINEST HOURS"
I'm beginning to believe that one of the requirements of becoming a Congress person is having an IQ od about 3

glp
10-17-2013, 10:27 AM
nothing has changed. Our debt ceiling keeps rising along with our national debt. The one thing that has to happen is putting on the brakes regarding its continual increase. Pay now or pay later. BTW did you see that REPUBLICAN McConnell in the Senate secured Kentucky 3 BILLION for a dam project as part of the bill's language. Nothing has changed!!

One of the fundamental reasons for our standard of living decline rests with all the politicians that supported free trade. It caused to be heard, as Ross Perot predicted, the "great sucking sound of jobs going off shore." Once that happened the skilled manufacturing job base of the middle class shrunk dramatically and along with it the middle class standard of living. The corporate officers and owners have done darn well with cheap foreign labor, but we the people have not.

Germany was soundly beaten in WWI, had draconian economic sanctions and reparations imposed on it, causing the rise in socialism and ultimately the Nazi party, was devastated in WW II, reunified the east after the Soviet dogs pulled out and today is the economic powerhouse of Western Europe. Did they do that by shipping their manufacturing jobs to China?

If one can't see where we have gone wrong, social decay, economic decay, moral decay, then one has to be blind. It is not a pretty picture! --Greg

AndyTaber
10-17-2013, 12:42 PM
I don't understand the logic that we can't default on our debt because we have to pay the interest first. What do you think that amount is for 22 trillion? Part of that debt was a 60 billion dollar payment due November to the Social Security Trust fund that had been "borrowed".

GerryM
10-17-2013, 01:46 PM
Greg I agree with you on that last Post.
Many countries are dumping on us with under priced and inferior goods and services.
They Get away with it because some are afraid of being called a protectionist.
I think its time to put the brakes on and start raising tariffs .
It may hurt a while but it may be necessary. Also a very high tax on foreign business building products in the USA.
Most are sending huge amounts of capital out of our country. Trade should be Dollar for dollar.
We have been told we are a consumer Nation , yet no one has done anything about it.
I believe the real problems are the people in government supporting other countries products to line their pockets thru foreign investments.
Just where their money is and how much is not always public knowledge.

vicvanb
10-17-2013, 03:15 PM
I don't understand the logic that we can't default on our debt because we have to pay the interest first.

You can't understand it because it's false. Of course we can default--not only on interest payments to bond holders, but on Medicare and Medicaid payments, Social Security payments, military salaries, government contractor payments, etc. It's not rocket science--if the federal government cannot issue interest bearing instruments because Congress failed to raise the debt ceiling, the proceeds from those instruments are not available to pay our past obligations.

Those who say default is no big deal (or worse, that we can't default) are just in denial of the facts. Default is a huge problem, period.

HCP
10-17-2013, 04:58 PM
America needs an ice-water-in-the-face wake-up call and that's WHY a Default should have happened. As it looks right now, Washington DC will kick the same old cans down the same old road in the same old COWARDLY WAY.

At an increasingly alarming rate, nations around the world (China for one) are moving away from the "dollar standard" as a form of exchange, hint, hint....nails are being drove into the dollars' coffin at an ever increasing rate from major players around the world. We may be the 900 lb economic gorilla on the block but we are taking very, very serious hits. If these economically inept idiots in Washington keep up the , they just may succeed in collapsing the dollar.

GerryM
10-17-2013, 07:03 PM
Time to put the United States back to work.
Reign in or close down the EPA and start making products to sell again. Stop sending profits over seas.

ebb
10-17-2013, 09:51 PM
I don't know any thing about default. The media has said that if we default that we will be not be able to barrow any more money to fund the government. I think that would be the best thing that could happen to the citizens of the USA. If the Obama administration cant barrow like drunken sailor then it cant throw it away. I read that 47 million people get food stamps that amount to an average of $133 a week. I didn't realize how our money was being wasted till I went to work for my friend in his shop in down town West Palm Beach FL. Te same people walk back and forth all day long, ever a change never a job. They ask if we are hiring but never walk across the street to get and application. I am getting tired of paying for it. 19 trillion in debt they will never have to pay for it they never work. this is the wealth redistribution Obama was talking about, he never had to get it to pass congress, just keep spending.

thumper4fun
10-17-2013, 11:18 PM
It's not rocket science--if the federal government cannot issue interest bearing instruments because Congress failed to raise the debt ceiling, the proceeds from those instruments are not available to pay our past obligations.

And therein lies the problem. The US can't pay its debts unless it borrows money to do so. Now just think about that from an individual level. How long do you think a lending institution will let someone borrow money to pay off other borrowed money?

And what is vicvanb's president doing about it? Well lets see. In 2006 he was dead set against raising the debt ceiling and stated that being in the position to need to raise the ceiling was an indication of poor/failed leadership. I agree with Barry on that, the rub is he says one thing and does another when it is his turn to lead. He also promised to cut the deficit in half by the end of his first term which Barry failed to come close to. Not sure if that was a lie or just ignorance. But he did get his precious Obamacare pushed through with a democratic held senate and house (against the will of the majority in this country) which is sure to heap a bigger financial burden on tax payers. And the real kicker is Barry and his democratic brethren were doing this when they should have been focused on the economy not a pet project.



Those who say default is no big deal (or worse, that we can't default) are just in denial of the facts. Default is a huge problem, period.

We finally agree on something. Default is a huge problem and is inevitable on our current trajectory. But who will be the big loser in the wake of a US default? I'll give you a hint, it ain't China. 70% of the almost $17 trillion in US debt is held by you and I in various forms. Foreign interests only owns 30% or less. Again, therein lies the problem. We the people can't let the government default because it only hurts we the people and the elected officials on both sides of the isle know this.

Bill Dorsey
10-18-2013, 03:25 AM
More Kool aid from VIC.
It showed strength in the Republican party. Mc Cain? of all people. Everyone knows what he is and it certainly isn't a Republican.
He about as conservative as Obama. There are others too.

When The ACA was passed it was passed without even being READ by the Members. POLOSI Lets hurry up and Vote on this , so we can open it up to see what'
s in it"""

ONE OF OUR GOVERNMENTS FINEST HOURS"
I'm beginning to believe that one of the requirements of becoming a Congress person is having an IQ od about 3






I personally think you're giving the benefit of the doubt on those IQ numbers for some of those idiots.

GerryM
10-18-2013, 08:26 AM
Correct I had to curb it. Based on past experience dealing with congress people. I did have one positive result in 50 years.

jo191145
10-27-2013, 06:48 AM
America needs an ice-water-in-the-face wake-up call and that's WHY a Default should have happened. As it looks right now, Washington DC will kick the same old cans down the same old road in the same old COWARDLY WAY.

At an increasingly alarming rate, nations around the world (China for one) are moving away from the "dollar standard" as a form of exchange, hint, hint....nails are being drove into the dollars' coffin at an ever increasing rate from major players around the world. We may be the 900 lb economic gorilla on the block but we are taking very, very serious hits. If these economically inept idiots in Washington keep up the , they just may succeed in collapsing the dollar.




Exactly right. This is the danger the American people are being led blindly into. When just a few key players decide the US dollar is no longer worthy of being the worlds currency the entire shell game will collapse making default look like just a bad day at the bank. Default would speed up the process as seen by the stern warning from china. Kicking the can will delay it but the end results will be even more severe.

It seems Washington has chosen delay and can kicking in hopes the economy will improve dramatically in the future. At the same time Washington's actions make it all but impossible for the economy to rebound.
I see trouble coming.