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View Full Version : Vhitavouri Powders vs. others



NesikaPPC
09-16-2013, 04:22 PM
I am trying to work up a load for a 6 PPC. I am current finding Vhit N133 nearly impossible to find, I read in a table that Hogdon 4891 (I'll have to double check) was very close to the burn rate of N133. **I am not planning on using anyone's load data or trying to substitute powders** but I am wondering if anyone has good luck with other powders that may be available.

Thanks,

Robert

Boyd Allen
09-16-2013, 04:36 PM
You have your numbers severely scrambled. What you saw was probably 4198 and although they are technically close in speed, I do not see it in common use for 6PPCs. Can you come up with some H322, or Benchmark, or xterminator, IMR 8208, 2015 or LT32? I have worked up good loads with all of them. The LT32 is the newest go to powder and should be available if you look around. On the other hand, if you are happy with 3,350, 2015 is a slower version of the same powder that will do very well. I usually start a new shooter out with Berger 68s marks on the bullet half as long as wide, combined with 322, and have them test from 27 grains up to a tight bolt, in .3 steps, over flags, on an easy wind day. I do not bother with five shot groups until I have something that looks promising with three, and do my .3 gr. step investigation with two, shot rapidly to help insure the same condition. Most primers can work, but I usually avoid 7 1/2s because they seem to me to be too hot.

Lee Martin
09-16-2013, 04:36 PM
I think you're referring to Extreme H4198 or IMR 4198. Both are widely used in the 30 BR and 30 PPC but have had limited success in the smaller bore. From what I remember folks were reporting pressure spikes with it in the 6. Hopefully someone with firsthand experience will chime in.

-Lee
www.singleactions.com

Andy Cross
09-16-2013, 07:22 PM
You have your numbers severely scrambled. What you saw was probably 4198 and although they are technically close in speed, I do not see it in common use for 6PPCs. Can you come up with some H322, or Benchmark, or xterminator, IMR 8208, 2015 or LT32? I have worked up good loads with all of them. The LT32 is the newest go to powder and should be available if you look around. On the other hand, if you are happy with 3,350, 2015 is a slower version of the same powder that will do very well. I usually start a new shooter out with Berger 68s marks on the bullet half as long as wide, combined with 322, and have them test from 27 grains up to a tight bolt, in .3 steps, over flags, on an easy wind day. I do not bother with five shot groups until I have something that looks promising with three, and do my .3 gr. step investigation with two, shot rapidly to help insure the same condition. Most primers can work, but I usually avoid 7 1/2s because they seem to me to be too hot.

I recently took delivery of a years supply of N133 but I usually only shoot it in cool weather. It has always seemed touchy in very warm days. I shoot ADI 2219 which I believe is sold as H322 in the US pushing either a column or Zero bullet. The 133 will out agg it on cool days but there isn't a lot between them in both my barrels.
Andy.

GerryM
09-16-2013, 08:54 PM
H4198 will work, Start at 26.5 grs and work up. I,ve shot quite a bit more .
Best when the bullets are jumping shoots dots in cool weather Goes crazy in hot weather , so just back it down when it gets hot.

NesikaPPC
09-17-2013, 02:57 PM
Thanks for the input. I appreciate the replies.

Bill Dorsey
09-17-2013, 03:29 PM
I noticed fair results with IMR 4198 at about 25 grains....the only problem being the long grain powder and throwing it with my Culver measure.

I had to break out the Belding and Mull to get good repeatable powder charges with IMR.

H 4198 was too spike prone for me in my 6MM but worked just fine in my 22 PPC -.100


Good results with Benchmark......Good results with Xterminator but it's dirty......

Stonewall
09-17-2013, 05:16 PM
I put one of those plastic Hornaday baffles in a Lyman culver conversion.
That works well with the old Nobel H-4198 I found.

And 24.8 grains is an accurate load with a 65 Berger .

Glenn

Charles E
09-17-2013, 05:52 PM
About 7-8 years ago, I gave H-4198 a try, when I got in one of those fits of fury all of us have with N-133. I couldn't get H-4198 to work. But Well, that was a while ago, and I'm pretty sure I was trying to load too hot; was to hooked on the velocities I got with VV N-133. I knew better even then, but was in too much of a hurry.

I think it (4198) will work, as a general rule. You will need to start low and work up. You will also have to keep records about temperature and load, even if it is one of the "Extreme" powders, said to be less temperature sensitive. I've learned this lesson too many times -- or more properly I suppose, failed to learn it. We use to shoot 4227 with the .30 BR back in the bad old days, and it too was "spiky," which really means we loaded quite hot, then got surprised wen we go over the edge for one reason or another.

That's really shooter error, being sloppy with a situation one knows is there.

My belief is that certain barrels favor certain powders, and there is no predicting this. When powder is plentiful, it is cheaper, and you get more life out of a barrel, by discarding a barrel that doesn't like the powders you have. When powder is hard to come by, you'll have to find what & how much works in your barrels.

Aside from the powders mentioned, Norma 201 or even N200 will work in a PPC. Norma N200 will be "spiky." While probably harder to find, VV N-130 will work, too. Reloader 10-X will work. Even Winchester 748. Check burn rates, and just be aware the faster ones will spike.

With 133, it is hard to get too much in a case, so we can get by without keeping detailed records. The faster powders for a chambering, shot on the high pressure edge, require record keeping and attention to detail -- don't leave loaded rounds in the sun, check each new lot of powder you receive, etc. Things as precision riflemen we should do anyway.