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Bro.D
07-07-2013, 05:25 PM
I have been shooting a 22-100 short for about six weeks. What I have found is that they are very accurate but I am having a hard time in the making of brass. My specific issues is a reverse donut in the neck. My reamer has .025 freebore. when I seat my bullets you can feel the pressure ring enter this void and therefore I get very inconsistent neck tention. I think the reason I'm getting the issue is when I use my shortened 22-250 die to make the brass the neck/shoulder junction is getting pushed into the neck area where the pressure ring of my bullet ends up thus causing the imperfection. Anyone else having this issue? If you are what have you done to correct it? Not really interested in having the reamer reground to have a longer FB but I will if necessary. How would you fix the problem. Thanks Bro.D

Charles E
07-07-2013, 06:32 PM
I *think* I understand you. Basically, I think you've moved the old neck/shoulder joint into the new neck by shortening up the case. That joint is a seam made by forming the brass originally, and there is no easy way to get it out.

There is one hard way. I've run into this when shortening up a .404 case in long-range BR, or lengthening a neck, that sort of thing. The solution is to fireform the cases without using a bullet, and when the outside of the neck is true & as even as it will get (you can't really fireform out one of those seams), you bore the inside of the case, rather than turn the outside to get proper wall thickness. It is a lot of work, but by judicious neckturning to start (to get the outside walls even), then boring the inside (reaming won't work), you get a nice, even neck, which is on the centerline of the chamber, even with a slight banana shaped case.

BUT: You may wind up selecting another bullet, where the (now) bad spot in your neck no longer matters. Rather than getting a reamer with a longer freebore, I have on several occasions gotten a throating reamer, which lets me increase the freebore to a desired length for each barrel.

I'd get one from Manson that will fit a T-handle as well as a lathe, has spiral fluting, and takes interchangable bushings. The ones from PT&G can be gotten with spiral fluting, but AFAIK, they assume lathe only. Most of the throating we've done has been with the barrel still on the receiver. You make a delrin guide similar to a bore guide but tight fitting, and make stops for the T-handle. The reamer is going to follow the hole, esp. with the bushings. Examining the bore after the work with a borescope shoe extremely even cutting of the lands in the throat area.

Cost about $75 or so, cheaper than a chambering reamer, and generally useful for all your .22s (that have a commom throat angle, probably a 1.5-degree half cone angle).

FWIW

FWIW

Be careful & set them up properly, they cut very quickly.

jlcprec
07-07-2013, 10:48 PM
I've made a lot of form die sets for this issue. I use the shortened 22/250 die, but also make a reamer guide that allows you to inside ream the neck after you push the shoulder back, while the case is held in the die.

Jim Carstensen

chris30br
07-07-2013, 11:00 PM
I've made a lot of form die sets for this issue. I use the shortened 22/250 die, but also make a reamer guide that allows you to inside ream the neck after you push the shoulder back, while the case is held in the die.

Jim Carstensen

I made 400 pieces of 22-100 brass last winter useing the exact same die and reamer that Jim made for and have had not the first doughnut issue. This form die and neck reamer works flawless. Thanks Jim! Give Jim a call and he will fix ya up

Charles E
07-07-2013, 11:39 PM
I've made a lot of form die sets for this issue. I use the shortened 22/250 die, but also make a reamer guide that allows you to inside ream the neck after you push the shoulder back, while the case is held in the die.

Jim CarstensenJust a note -- This is essentially what I did with the big 30 -or mayby exactly the same. I do use a reamer to cut the inside of the necks, but the reamer is held in a pilot bushing in the die, and the case supported in the die. With such as setup as this -- what Mr.Carstensen describes -- the reamer cannot wander whist "following the existing hole," so it is in effect the same as boring.

Making that die is not fun, but since JLC will make it for you, that's the way to go.

Boyd Allen
07-08-2013, 01:33 AM
Some time back, I did a project that involved using a ream die, with the reamer guided by the die and the case fully supported, and then outside turning the necks to final thickness. The necks were not as concentric before turning as after. For that application, since it was not for a shortened case, there was no advantage, but for yours there may be. It sounds like Jim has the right combination.

Charles E
07-08-2013, 09:40 AM
Some time back, I did a project that involved using a ream die, with the reamer guided by the die and the case fully supported, and then outside turning the necks to final thickness. The necks were not as concentric before turning as after. For that application, since it was not for a shortened case, there was no advantage, but for yours there may be. It sounds like Jim has the right combination.

Boyd, this may not have fit you application, but when I form cases and use a piloted inside neck reamer (or bore the necks), I think it important to first take a very light cleanup cut on the outside, then fireform, before making the inside cut. TJ Jackson gave the needed sequence of steps way back in the 1990s.

Fireforming does not "iron out" small irregularities, but it does do a good job of general forming, as long as you keep the pressure around 50,000psi.

In point of fact, since I was pushing the shoulder way back, I would make the basic case, fireform without a bullet, now lightly turn the outside neck so the cutter went just a bit into the new neck shoulder junction, fireform without a bullet again, then use the die. The die was made using the FL die reamer, so the case was fully supported.

Not only were the case walls very even, but a large percentage of the cases showed so little runout the needle on a .001 dial indicator barely flickered.

This is a lot of work, everyone has to decide for themselves whether or not it is worth it. I'd note that given decent equipment, success at short-range BR is mainly about learning to read the conditions (wind and mirage). Success at 1,000 yards is all about making as good ammunition as you can. The 1.3 to 1.5 second bullet travel time allows all sorts of things to come into play that just aren't significant and 100 or 200 yards. How many short-range shooters even think about the Standard Deviation for ballistic coefficient (drag)? No reason they should. At long range, it can be worth 3-4 inches. Etc.

HovisKM
07-08-2013, 01:18 PM
I've been making short 22ppc's for over ten years. I use one of Jim's (JLC) dies, I highly recommend the investment.

Jim, do you keep the reamers in stock or where is the best place for me to buy one like you provide. I don't know how many cases I have done (1000's) but the reamer is finally starting to dull.

Hovis

skeetlee
07-08-2013, 04:15 PM
For those that do not know Jim, he is a heck of a guy, and shooter and his products are top notch to say the least!! Lee

Bro.D
07-09-2013, 10:51 AM
Great stuff guys, thanks!!! Glad to know that what I have experienced is nothing new and their is an easy fix for it. I love the 22-100 short. It is super accurate but with the neck tension issue it was a little frustrating. This issue will turn a mid 1 into a mid 4 real quick. Thanks a bunch, Bro.D