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Wilbur
04-28-2013, 09:20 PM
You deleted that thread again...this time without much cause. Surely, you don't have to prove anything to any of us. We were simply trying to tell you that those targets you posted were measured incorrectly and the resulting agg was WAY off. You're kidding yourself believing that the agg was on the same planet with a .203. You don't have to prove anything further as the targets speak for themselves. Francis' comment about seeing the moving backer was a stab at humor because there's no need for a moving backer. You can easily count all 25 shots.

I should have just said "BS" rather than beat around the bush concerning the target scoring. I apologize for not doing that.

It's a very beautiful rifle and I wish it were mine.

.25shooter
04-29-2013, 07:32 AM
You deleted that thread again...this time without much cause. Surely, you don't have to prove anything to any of us. We were simply trying to tell you that those targets you posted were measured incorrectly and the resulting agg was WAY off. You're kidding yourself believing that the agg was on the same planet with a .203. You don't have to prove anything further as the targets speak for themselves. Francis' comment about seeing the moving backer was a stab at humor because there's no need for a moving backer. You can easily count all 25 shots.

I should have just said "BS" rather than beat around the bush concerning the target scoring. I apologize for not doing that.

It's a very beautiful rifle and I wish it were mine.


Polite and to the point Wilbur.

DanSig posting and behaiviour speak for it self so I do not need to go into that. I am also from Iceland and know him more than I would like to.

I have shot too many mediocre aggregates in my life not to recognice one when I see it. Ballpark figure of the five groups posted is around .3xxx in my opinion.

That leads me to the question "what costitutes an aggregate ? " In most peoples mind it is 5 consecutive 5 shot groups, not 5 selected groups accumulated for the purpose of aggregating them.

Furthermore the difference between .20xx aggregate and an .30xx doesnt seem to be that big, right ? Wrong, its the difference between a very good and respectable aggregate that would win many matches and put you in top 5 in most and a aggregate that would at best put you in the middle of the pack.

On the other hand if DanSig believes that what he posted is an aggregate of .20xx it is fine by me.


This does not take away the fact that the rifle is nice and well made and the groups are not bad for a beginner in benchrest. If the poster would understand that fact and behave accordingly, he would fair better in the future.

dansig
04-29-2013, 07:57 AM
it was my thread and therefore my right to delete it.

I was tought to measure groups by the national BR champion, I used exactly the same method that he showed me, if that is wrong then so be it, it's the way groups are measured in competitions here.

and I will continue to delete my threads whenever I get a negative comments about me, I have no interest in letting negative comments about me flooding the internet and I haveno interest in answering them or having them answered by someone else that states he "knows" me, like previous poster states..

only one shooter in Iceland knows me and he is not on this forum, the rest might have met me on the range once, but not one of them knows me as a person, and none of the Icelanders on this forum knows me.

I do not participate on the icelandic forums due to false statements about me made by Icelanders that have never even met me, I was hoping to be able to participate here without the shi* that goes on on the icelandic forums.

Wilbur
04-29-2013, 10:58 AM
You're spot on with your right to delete your own threads and I wish that you didn't have the problems you speak of. I would like to try to show you the correct method to measure groups if you will allow.

The easiest method to ballpark a group is to measure edge to edge of the widest dimension and subtract one bullet diameter. That won't be the exact measurement but will be close enough for discussion. I recommend you use this method rather than purchase a measuring tool.

In reality, a .243 bullet (or any bullet) will usually make a smaller hole (black ring included) in a target paper. Different rifles shooting the same caliber will make different sized holes. For that reason, the measuring tool is used to center an inscribed circle over a bullet hole and expand the caliper/inscribed circle to the furthest hole. The caliper is then read straight off for the group measurement - center to center of the two furthest bullet holes.

Small wonder the fellow that showed you how to measure is the national champ. :rolleyes: I assure you either he was mistaken or you misunderstood.

SGJennings
04-29-2013, 01:03 PM
I do not agree that a thread started by someone should be theirs to delete. Their posts, yes. The thread, no. Once someone else posts in the thread, not just the thread starter's material is deleted. Just my humble opinion.

Wilbur
04-29-2013, 01:46 PM
I do not agree that a thread started by someone should be theirs to delete. Their posts, yes. The thread, no. Once someone else posts in the thread, not just the thread starter's material is deleted. Just my humble opinion.

I don't disagree. In fact, I've been distressed a time or two because of that. I'll look around to see if there's a viable method.

HFV
04-29-2013, 02:01 PM
Dansig, first let me say, that is one beautiful rifle and I'm reasonalbly sure it will shoot a .203 agg and smaller teen aggs. As Wilbur says, for a ballpark measurement, go from outside to outside @ the widest, or longest sides of the group, subtract .243" from the measurement (if shooting 6mm) .224 for 22's and .308 for the 30's. If you have two bullet holes that just barely touch, then you have close to .243" measure. Look @ the group you had .095". Very fine group, but the group was more than 1-1/2 bullet hole long. It couldn't have been less than .120" and on target 10, the group was nearly 3 bullet holes tall.
Put the pic back up. I would like to show some of my friends the paint job.
HFV

Wilbur
04-29-2013, 03:13 PM
If you say the word, I'll undelete your thread....

dansig
04-29-2013, 03:42 PM
according to your description on measuring groups we use the same method.

here is how I do it

I put a bullet in the caliper

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-5GP9gwCdG6A/UX7K4lbwGXI/AAAAAAAABko/KKubRhF728E/w531-h398-p-o/1.jpg

I zero the caliper

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-LtRJyqwx9dU/UX7K6ExRdDI/AAAAAAAABkw/M8uqjvAkk9w/w531-h398-p-o/2.jpg

I measure the group where it is widest

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-TBJaNTT-QEY/UX7K7ndT4QI/AAAAAAAABk4/C1f7pJCC9As/w531-h398-p-o/3.jpg

and here is the .095 group

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-r4ZMSGylA2U/UX7K9N4NenI/AAAAAAAABlA/6vMu7fJfeL8/w571-h428-p-o/4.jpg

and it´s barely a bullet and a quarter wide...

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-vuCk9rA6g1g/UX7K-nNlScI/AAAAAAAABlI/k8UcSPqwpZ8/w571-h428-p-o/5.jpg


undeleting the thread is ok if you can remove all comments except my first post.

Hal
04-29-2013, 03:52 PM
Your middle group should read .0950, not .0095.

Hal

dansig
04-29-2013, 03:54 PM
just a typo.. got a bad keyboard ;)

Boyd Allen
04-29-2013, 07:38 PM
Generally, IMO, if a fellow has not insulted someone that has posted in the same thread, I view the first person that goes after someone as the bad egg, and I don't really care what someone does somewhere else (as far as posting goes) as long as he has behaved well on this forum. I would suggest that if you have a problem with Dansig on another form, that you deal with it there exclusively, or even better, face to face.....but if the only reason that you are here is to talk about how bad someone is, I suggest that that is not what this forum is for.

Now, back to the rifle and group measuring, sometimes a different size target than we are used to looking at can distort our perception of the size of a group. Perhaps that is what is responsible for what has happened here. In any case, the quality of the pictures of the rifle and these showing how targets were measured were of excellent quality, which is good to see, and rifle's paint job is amazing to me. Lets see if we can stick to shooting topics from hear on out. If I see some new "face" doing any more bashing, I will of course know who the source of our problem is and of course it won't be the person he is attacking...will it?

Michael Huebner
04-29-2013, 11:00 PM
according to your description on measuring groups we use the same method.

here is how I do it

I put a bullet in the caliper

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-5GP9gwCdG6A/UX7K4lbwGXI/AAAAAAAABko/KKubRhF728E/w531-h398-p-o/1.jpg

I zero the caliper

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-LtRJyqwx9dU/UX7K6ExRdDI/AAAAAAAABkw/M8uqjvAkk9w/w531-h398-p-o/2.jpg

I measure the group where it is widest

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-TBJaNTT-QEY/UX7K7ndT4QI/AAAAAAAABk4/C1f7pJCC9As/w531-h398-p-o/3.jpg

and here is the .095 group

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-r4ZMSGylA2U/UX7K9N4NenI/AAAAAAAABlA/6vMu7fJfeL8/w571-h428-p-o/4.jpg

and it´s barely a bullet and a quarter wide...

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-vuCk9rA6g1g/UX7K-nNlScI/AAAAAAAABlI/k8UcSPqwpZ8/w571-h428-p-o/5.jpg


undeleting the thread is ok if you can remove all comments except my first post.


Dansig,

No it isn't the same as Wilbur is saying

What you need to do is measure a single bullet hole on the paper as they never cut the paper at full diameter. It will be say 0.230 for an example. Always less than 0.243 in my experience.

So by measuring the bullet itself you are subtracting a little too much from your groups

Michael

Wilbur
04-30-2013, 04:19 AM
Just as soon leave it deleted.....that way you're the bad guy.

dansig
04-30-2013, 05:31 AM
Dansig,

No it isn't the same as Wilbur is saying

What you need to do is measure a single bullet hole on the paper as they never cut the paper at full diameter. It will be say 0.230 for an example. Always less than 0.243 in my experience.

So by measuring the bullet itself you are subtracting a little too much from your groups

Michael

I measured 10 individual holes and they were from .242-.244 and the average was .243 so the holes are excactly the same size as the bullet.

the paper in these targets does not tear like regular paper, it does not get a black ring from the bullet, just a clean cut.

these targets are made by a company called Krüger, probably German.. look them up, you might like their targets.

.25shooter
04-30-2013, 06:29 AM
I measured 10 individual holes and they were from .242-.244 and the average was .243 so the holes are excactly the same size as the bullet.

the paper in these targets does not tear like regular paper, it does not get a black ring from the bullet, just a clean cut.

these targets are made by a company called Krüger, probably German.. look them up, you might like their targets.


Who wouldnt like targets that measured up like this one supposedly does ?

dansig
04-30-2013, 07:01 AM
here are the targets I use
http://scheiben.krueger-shops.eu/sch_de_articles.php?VID=mXMhWd4Rt2RsL8ih&saSearch[category]=Benchrest

and here is some info about them

http://www.kruger-us-targets.com/index.php/about_us/

Wilbur
04-30-2013, 12:37 PM
Thought I would add them back...didn't do it well, but you get the picture.

alinwa
05-01-2013, 12:15 AM
Holey Cow..... 'at's purdy right thar!!

Dan H
05-01-2013, 06:23 AM
Thought I would add them back...didn't do it well, but you get the picture.

I don't think have I've seen a more beautiful rifle, that paint job must have cost as much as the action.

DanH

alinwa
05-01-2013, 08:57 PM
So Dansig..... bust it out..... Cirth? Norse? Anglic? Futhark? Amanya? Daedric? Tengwar? Dirty Tolkien?

GIVE :)

al

LHSmith
05-01-2013, 09:42 PM
I'm thinking exocentric gaudy gaelic......but then I'm partial to the beauty of wood grain.

alinwa
05-02-2013, 02:48 AM
Shirley you mean bawdy Gaels...... gaudy Gaels, really?

corrahhh, whoda'thunkit?

!!!

al

dansig
05-02-2013, 05:08 AM
it's ancient form of futhark

it's in Icelandic but the text reads " reputation never dies, for those who make a good one"

it's from an Icelandic book of proverbs called Hávamál, the oldest copy of the book is since the year 960, but the proverbs are older than that but still work today.

villtur
05-02-2013, 08:14 AM
Words of praise will never perish nor a noble name.

dansig
05-02-2013, 08:51 AM
Why is your rifle called the Hobbitt rifle in Iceland?

You must be better connected to Iceland than I am because I have never heard that name for my rifle..

And I am over 6' tall so I'm no hobbit ;)

HFV
05-02-2013, 11:43 AM
The only fact I know fer sure, is the bullet you're measuring, is not one of Wilbur's fat boys. The rifle is outstandingly beautiful. I just cant read the writings on each side.
according to your description on measuring groups we use the same method.

here is how I do it

I put a bullet in the caliper

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-5GP9gwCdG6A/UX7K4lbwGXI/AAAAAAAABko/KKubRhF728E/w531-h398-p-o/1.jpg

I zero the caliper

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-LtRJyqwx9dU/UX7K6ExRdDI/AAAAAAAABkw/M8uqjvAkk9w/w531-h398-p-o/2.jpg

I measure the group where it is widest

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-TBJaNTT-QEY/UX7K7ndT4QI/AAAAAAAABk4/C1f7pJCC9As/w531-h398-p-o/3.jpg

and here is the .095 group

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-r4ZMSGylA2U/UX7K9N4NenI/AAAAAAAABlA/6vMu7fJfeL8/w571-h428-p-o/4.jpg

and it´s barely a bullet and a quarter wide...

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-vuCk9rA6g1g/UX7K-nNlScI/AAAAAAAABlI/k8UcSPqwpZ8/w571-h428-p-o/5.jpg


undeleting the thread is ok if you can remove all comments except my first post.