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Richard
11-08-2012, 05:13 PM
OK guys, I am getting ready to put up the canopy over my concrete firing line. I am looking at pin drive anchors. Is there something better? How about epoxy? Don't know anything about that, so help me out if you don't mind.

Richard Brensing

Centerfire
11-08-2012, 05:25 PM
Look into Hilti.
Centerfire

Bob P
11-08-2012, 05:35 PM
Red Head brand Wedge Ancors I use them to mount industail Washing machines.

mrgrinch1223
11-08-2012, 06:53 PM
Wedge anchors are very good just make sure that you get the type that is the actual drill size for the anchor size, there is one brand out there that is different. Hilti is good but there are others that are more readily available and just as good (Redhead,Simpson(Lowes Home Depot). Epoxy is better but depending on your wallet and design of you canopy it may not necessary (the more surface area, the more pull out strength required) IMHO

Joe Maisto
11-08-2012, 07:26 PM
I've probably used everything made in the construction field. Pin drives are ok, The 1/4 "wedge" drives hold forever if you first drill a 1/4 " hole. They are flared and split in the middle. They come with round head or flat.Hilties are ok for some applications, but tend to "spald " the concrete.
What thickness material you are going through is important. If you don't "shoot" them in, you'll need a drill, preferably a Hiltie with the proper sized drill bit with carbide cutting edges., as it is a "hit & turn" tool.
"Tap Cons" are another alternative. A box comes with the proper sized drill bit for the screw size you would use.

alinwa
11-08-2012, 11:31 PM
OK guys, I am getting ready to put up the canopy over my concrete firing line. I am looking at pin drive anchors. Is there something better? How about epoxy? Don't know anything about that, so help me out if you don't mind.

Richard Brensing

To get any meaningful answers you need to give more information IMO. That said, generally epoxy provides far and away the strongest anchor for it's size, impervious to vibration. Especially if any of the pins take a "pulling" load I'll give epoxy a large margin over any wedge anchor. Lowe's carries Simpson epoxies in the double tubes, around 40bucks a double tube and you'll need a double gun, misremember what they cost. Right now the hot tip is to look for closeouts on Simpson "ET" epoxy since it's being replaced by "SET" I've bought out a couple Lowe's stores at .20 on the dollar.

How large the cover?
Construction? What's a "canopy?" .....Canvas? Steel? Wood?

Wedge anchors work OK for shear loading or static loading like sill plates on walls NOT taking variable shear stresses but I'll never recommend them for a working load.


opinionby


al

Richard
11-09-2012, 07:31 AM
the canopy is 20'X40' the trusses are webbed steel. It will look like the firing line at Mill Creek in KS City.

Richard

cpeters
11-09-2012, 09:54 AM
I work for a broadcast company and in 1989 we installed a 10 meter (almost 33 ft) diamater satellite uplink antenna at our facility and they used 1 inch bolts using the Hilti epoxy system and it has been thru many Missouri storms and high winds and it still standing strong. It works well. It may be overkill for what you are doing but, it would definately hold whatevery you need.

Charlie

mrgrinch1223
11-09-2012, 11:07 AM
Al is spot on with the Simpson Et epoxy their is very little difference in the SET epoxy as it is mostly a new lable. After reading your description you are going to have a good amount of "Uplift" and based on that I would use Epoxy with swaged or all-thread anchor bolts. If you have any friends in construction they may have a double tube gun for dispensing, if not you can make one out of 1' of 1" pvc and 2-90's just dont forget the mixing tubes. One other note Epoxy does not perform well in cold climates as far as dispensing and set time. Good Luck

Boyd Allen
11-09-2012, 11:31 AM
I will leave the recommendations to the more experienced. Here is a link to a thread that shows the Mill Creek firing line, so that readers can see the type of construction. http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?74260-Mill-Creek-NBRSA-Hunter-VfS-tournament

alinwa
11-09-2012, 01:15 PM
One thing about Hilti.... while they're kinda' the grampaw of the industry they'be gotten really weird of late, over-priced, selling only on jobsites, not sending out pricelists and just generally trying to be secretive in a business that has several other players.

I'll recommend Simpson products as being readily available, accepted (pre-qual'd) in all jurisdictions and very user friendly. They're half the price of comparable Hilti products.

Regarding making a double-tube squirter out of PVC...??? I don't think so. Not only would PVC simply shatter under the load, the tubes are larger than 1" diameter and cast in one piece, I can't understand how one would get PVC to work. Maybe mrgrinch will share a picture? mrgrinch is right about cold weather, off the cuff I'll call freezing the cutoff point for application. We treat epoxy just like concrete feeling that the area must be kept from freezing for at least 4 days and in engineering terms the old "40degrees and rising" rule will satisfy any inspector. Regarding the epoxy tubes themselves, the fix is to keep the epoxy warm on the heater or engine block and it'll work just like summer :)

Richard
11-09-2012, 06:43 PM
One other thing I need to know regarding the studs. Will good quality all-thread work or do I need swaged studs? (I am talking epoxy now) I would rather be over kill than wondering where the canopy went in a good kansas wind:) Also, were coming into fall, will cold weather harm the epoxy while it's setting or does it just take longer to cure.
Again, thanks for the helpful info. I will be using 1/2 studs, how big do in need to drill the holes, and what depth. I have 16 inches to work with as far as concrete thickness

Richard Brensing

Joe Maisto
11-09-2012, 09:34 PM
Richard;

I'm thinking the epoxy system will take a great deal of time. Much more so than a good anchoring system. Getting cold, ya know ? Me., I'd be using tap-cons , the wedge pins, or "drive" pins.
You're not going to be holding up a building, just a canopy !

alinwa
11-10-2012, 12:06 AM
The problem IMO is one of vibration and uplift. It's the wind that'll getcha' and it's the wind that will work out cheap redheads (wedge anchors)

If epoxy is installed in weather above 50 degrees it's good'ago in 24hrs.

for epoxy work you need to drill the holes 1/8" over in your case, so 5/8" holes for 1/2" bolts. All standard engineering bolts are mfgd of A36 mild steel or the equivalent and garden variety allthread from any supplier fills the bill.

All this being said, if you've got 16" of thickness to play with I'll back up a little on my opinions. I was picturing the more standard 3.5"-4" thick slab. You can get some serious anchors for concrete that thick. We sometimes retrofit with these guys http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=A0PDoTGe351QlV0AbFaJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTBlMT Q4cGxyBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1n?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimage s.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3F_adv_prop%3 Dimage%26va%3Dconcrete%2Bwedge%2Banchor%2Bpins%26f r%3Dyfp-t-701%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D5&w=200&h=200&imgurl=www.mittalmerchandisers.com%2Fsmall-images%2Fpin-anchor-972182.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mittalmerchandisers.com%2Fme tal-anchors.htm&size=4.7+KB&name=Anchors%2CPin+Anchors%2C%3Cb%3EWedge+%3C%2Fb% 3EPin+Anchors+Manufacturers%2CSteve+Anchors+...&p=concrete+wedge+anchor+pins&oid=ef047a8d1b72068b302f3f9576763a7e&fr2=&fr=yfp-t-701&tt=Anchors%252CPin%2BAnchors%252C%253Cb%253EWedge% 2B%253C%252Fb%253EPin%2BAnchors%2BManufacturers%25 2CSteve%2BAnchors%2B...&b=0&ni=128&no=5&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=11kha397f&sigb=13oslfkc4&sigi=11uvm6ls7&.crumb=8GyHYoF.bFQ which do not work well in a standard slab or stemwall but in your case...... :) You can drill the blind holes required deep enough not to spall the slab.

Wear your safety glasses and keep an air compressor handy to blow out the holes...

al

alinwa
11-10-2012, 12:08 AM
BTW I think these are what Joe's referring to with wedge pins and drive pins... and I'm agreeing with him if you have all that thickness.

Joe Maisto
11-10-2012, 07:37 AM
Al;

The pics you show above are drive pins, not wedge pins. We use what you show, simply to anchor steel door frames to the concrete floor in commercial work. They come in plasic as well.
1/4" wedge anchors are SPLIT in the center, each side going in a differant direction. It is now considerably larger at that point than the original 1/4 ", closer to 3/8 or 7/16ths. When we anchor 2x4 plates to a concrete floor with these, there is no getting them out. As in.....if you take a wrecking bar and try to lift the lumber up. it will break or split.

Don't really want to get into a shouting match about this. There's more than enough of that on this forum. Construction was my life....

RStiefel
11-10-2012, 09:17 AM
Richard:

Take a look at the HILTI Kwik Bolt 3. They are a bit more expensive than the cheaper brands, but are also the best wedge anchor money can by. They are available in carbon steel, galvanized and stainless steel. We use them for virtually everything we anchor into concrete as required by our registered Structural Engineers. I work at Nuclear Power plants. You might also consider the HILTI HDI which is a drop-in anchor that is threaded to accept a bolt screwed directly into the anchor. Stay away from pin type anchors for your application. They are NOT designed for your project