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Hambone
09-02-2012, 07:06 AM
I'm considering shooting this new S class next year.

http://shootingshed.co.uk/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/S-Class-Proposal-R3.docx
As it gets back to what F/TR was all about.IMO

I realise the term deer legal might be some what confusing to other less restricted nationalities.

bisley
09-02-2012, 08:57 AM
Sounds a great idea,but 2 things put me off.
I'd have to buy a new scope mine is above the x12 power power limit.
I'm sure the trigger of my r93,break at less than the stated 2lbs.
I like the concept,but you know whats going to happen.
People with start having rifles made in some bazaar wind bucking deer legal caliber,it will end up being light weight f-class.

Hambone
09-02-2012, 03:59 PM
Scope and trigger tweak seems like a low entry cost IMO.
I'm sure there are literally 10 dozen guys who have a rifle set up they could compete with right now sitting in the cabnet that would be simply a case of grab and go. The other good thing is it can be shot at any number of ranges rather than the 3 or 4 F class is restricted to now.

I'm not overly concerned about what it might become. I orginally started shooting F/TR as it was a low cost entry discipline, then stopped when it became just another money race. The same might happen to S class, who knows. At least it will be fun whilst it lasts.

ovenpaa
09-03-2012, 10:15 AM
I wrote the original specification for S Class and if I have my way it will always be kept as a 'ethically pure' as possible. What I mean is keeping it completely within the spirit of the class so no 60X 'scopes and no 32" barrels, the ideal has to be to walk to the firing point with a rifle in a slip and a box of ammunition and shoot at an F Class target and I actually shot the Bisley Phoenix F Open class earlier this year in the spirit of the S Class. It was good as well, no 10Kg rifle, no 10Kg front rest, no range bag, no trolley and just a single walk from the car to the firing point, in fact the only extra I carried out was a jacket as it had got too warm.

The UK legal Deer cartridges were really to keep it within the desired class of shooters, basically hunters and club shooters and keep the laser guns out of the equation. My wife is hacked off as her 22-6,5x47 is not eligible but so be it. If you guys can give me an idea of the cartridges that should be used I am very happy to update the document. Also it is a spirit thing, so if you have a 16X 'scope back it off to 12X and shoot the competition. If you choose to run at 16X or 20X you are only letting one person down.

Cheers

David at the Shooting SHED Journal.

EDIT, just noticed this is my first post despite being a lurker for a couple of years so hi all from a 50 something shooter in the UK :cool:

Hambone
09-05-2012, 05:54 AM
Dave

I am positive your concept is the way to go. Personally all this arms race stuff that both F Class's has become turns me right off.

I and many others simply can't afford it. From what I have read both Vince and Laurie have tried their ways to make both classes more accessable but..........

Personally I'm happy with the broad based "deer legal" cartridge classification. The slight variation in the term between England and Scotland shouldn't prove a major stumbling block. IMHO.

What appeals more than anything else is that the class can be shot at different distances. As well as at more ranges around the country there by giving more shooters an opportunity to get on the fireing line, as not everyone can or wants to spend hours traveling to the 3 or 4 current F class venues.

Keep up the momentum. As and when any S class match is arranged where would I find the details?

ovenpaa
09-05-2012, 07:51 AM
Hambone, are you in the UK? I was thinking of getting some regional competitions set up for the cold months so it does not compete with the UK F Class league and also because people will be shooting lightweight rifles so anything we can do to keep barrel temperatures down is a bonus, certainly I see big differences from Summer to Winter months.

If I can get the specification bottomed out then I see no reason why it cannot be shot globally and from there fine tuned. I will set a web site up for general information and competition dates, they are so cheap and easy to do these days and it means there is a central place for everyone to visit.

Right now I need as much feedback on the S-Class as possible so we are all in agreement, or pretty close!

Hambone
09-05-2012, 09:19 AM
Dave
Yes I'm in the UK.
Biggest problem I think you face is in the use of definition "deer legal" outside of the UK. You could simply nick the technical definition of whats deer legal out of the Deer Laws and stick that in the class spec.
One of the major obstacles I can envisge is the majority of deer shooters won't have enough elevation on their day to day muntjac dabber to get out to 600ms with out swapping bases and mounts. Not an insurmountable obstacle but one that will definatlyl impinge on the grab and go concept.

A web site would be good.
Talking of web sites I have to say I don't find the full-bore site all that easy. Perhaps its becos I have naff all interest in most of it. LOL

ovenpaa
09-05-2012, 09:45 AM
The 'Deer legal' thing is very UK biased which is why I would like suggestions yet keep the ultra accurate low recoil stuff out of the mix. That is a good point on the elevation and will need some consideration.

Yes F-B (UK) is an odd place, more a forum for shooters as opposed to a shooting forum and it does drive me to distraction from time to time however it has it's fans and I am slightly biased in it's favour as I am married to the Admin....

Hambone
09-05-2012, 03:15 PM
F-B uk is something I have never quite managed to get to grips with. I can rememebr why it started and where it sprang from but its formatting and the vast majority of its content. Nah!

calibres... as suggested, just c&p the tech specs start out of the Deer Act job done!

bill larson
09-06-2012, 05:04 PM
I`ll tell you something that is as much fun........ High Power Silhouette shooting.Standing offhand...200-500 meters....cals. 6mm-35cal.

ovenpaa
09-10-2012, 04:40 AM
Am I right to think there is some interest in a simple lightweight class such as this?

This has been discussed elsewhere and in a nutshell a simplified base specification would be:

The rifle has to be carried to the point on a sling if allowed or in a simple slip.
Must go in a slip with the bipod attached.
For the UK we have said must be deer legal in England or Scotland however this will differ for other countries
Must be fed from the magazine and not single loaded unless it is a break type rifle
Must have a safety catch.
Scope must dial down to 12 or be fixed below 12.
No rear bag
No sighters
26" maximum barrel length excluding moderator if fitted
Weight - I feel it needs to have a limit on it so lets say 7.5Kg all up including bipod and sights,

I am not sure why there is resistance to a new lightweight discipline in shooting as this is not direct competition with any current activities, for me it just fills a gap. If anyone wants to shoot this class then PM me with your contact details and location and I will launch a friendly postal competition to test the formula, yes it is not an even playing field in some respects and there is an honour system involved however I am sure it is worth a go.

As this is not exclusive to any single forum I will set up a web site where competitions details and results can be posted plus a more in depth covering of the class and I am happy to PM details to anyone who is interested. I will copy this to other forums where it has been discussed.

va78
09-11-2012, 12:17 PM
Is this class currently running? I diddnt see it in the rules. Im assuming it is a "stock" class. correct?

Hambone
09-12-2012, 05:49 AM
There has been some very lengthy discussions on a couple of UK shooting forums and Dave.a.k.a Ovenpaa has been doing a great job in sorting out the good suggestions from the moaning and nit picking whinges.

I think getting the show on the road is very close. But Dave is the man behind the wheel, and has been from the get go.

ovenpaa
09-12-2012, 06:51 AM
As ever I am frantically trying to finish some customer orders however I should be clear tonight and will post a full update on where we are. S Class is not a division of anything else it is a proposal of a whole new class with the only commonality with F Class being we will shoot the same 1/2 MOA V Bull target because I think we owe it to ourselves :)

Back in a bit

David

Hambone
09-12-2012, 02:23 PM
Dave

As Bill and Ted would say................Excellent dude!

ovenpaa
09-12-2012, 03:57 PM
I have given the S Class a web presence, it is very basic right now so I will update it along the line

http://sporting-class.com (http://sporting-class.com)

Firstly I think it is important to point out that this is not a spin off nor a sub division of F Class shooting, this is a lightweight discipline that uses F Class 1/2MOA V Bull targets, I chose these targets because they are readily available, challenging and you can even make them yourself if you want to practice somewhere quiet. I cannot claim this class is a true back to basics format however by imposing suggested limits in some areas it should be a leveller and also take the need/desire to shoot with the latest 60x or even 80x $5k 'scope and custom single shot action.

I have made the following changes to the specifications:


No rear bags.
No sighters in competitions.
Barrel length is 26″/660,0mm excluding moderators if fitted.
Triggers are now free as long as they are safe (Slam tests will soon prove the safety of a trigger)


People are asking me if this class is live yet? Well I am shooting in this format this year to see how it goes, I am shooting with a fairly standard Schultz & Larsen M97-DL Sporter chambered in 6,5-284 with a 12x scope on top, one slight downside is the rifle belongs to my wife and she is going to want to shoot it soon so I am going to move to a typical European sporter/hunting rifle, probably 6,5x55 Swede. This is early days so right now if you have a 16x scope wind it down to 12x - this is a trust thing and it is down to you to be honest with this. Weight, if you rifle weighs a pound over the limit then so be it, you need to put it on a diet however you can still shoot and see if this class is for you.

Cartridge choice is listed as UK Deer legal which means very little outside of the UK, I would suggest .243 and above up to 7,5mm but I would look to you guys for guidance on this.

A more detailed albeit out of date specification can be found here

http://sporting-class.com/wp/?p=46

I will hold off updating it for a few days to see what feedback I get.

Cheers

David

Hambone
09-20-2012, 10:24 AM
Hi Dave

Any further developments. I've checked the new web site etc.

Atb

Rick B
09-24-2012, 05:09 PM
Sounds a great idea,but 2 things put me off.
I'd have to buy a new scope mine is above the x12 power power limit.
I'm sure the trigger of my r93,break at less than the stated 2lbs.
I like the concept,but you know whats going to happen.
People with start having rifles made in some bazaar wind bucking deer legal caliber,it will end up being light weight f-class.

You mean like a 22/6mm Rem?

Hambone
10-03-2012, 02:24 PM
Broadsword calling Danny boy .................Broadsword calling Danny boy


Any further news Dave?

Ed Willers
12-30-2012, 11:50 PM
"Cartridge choice is listed as UK Deer legal which means very little outside of the UK, I would suggest .243 and above up to 7,5mm but I would look to you guys for guidance on this."

In the US probably the most pobular deer caliber is .30 ie the 7.62. Probably shouldn't exclude that. There are people who hunt deer with things bigger than that, though I think most would not choose to shoot lots of rounds a day at targets with one on a regular basis. Too punishing.

I like the idea of an S-class. I'm shooting F-class, at the local club level, using a fiberglass stocked Swedish Mauser in 6.5 x 55. We shoot at 300yds at reduced targets. I find it quite challenging. But, I'm totally outclassed by the purpose built F-class rifles.
Gregg

ovenpaa
12-31-2012, 05:16 AM
Hambone - sorry I missed your reply :(

Over here in the UK the take up has been slow which is probably down to lack of publicity, however we have some clubs who will be adopting the discipline in the new year and a fair amount of interest in the postal side of things which is embarrassing as I have not managed to find anyone to do the graphics for the A4 Pdf targets yet... (Anyone here any good at such things?)

As far as the 'Deer legal' side of things goes, well that is a UK thing and is probably confusing matters so think of it as 6.5mm and above. The interesting part is the choice of rifle and cartridge seems to vary from person to person with no common theme, I am shooting a 6,5-284, my wife for the first time in her life has actually gone out and found a .308 (Tikka) just for the discipline, we have one person shooting a 257 Roberts AI and the 6,5x55SE seems to have a few followers as does the .308 and I suspect the low recoil 6,5's such as the x47 Lapua are going to do very well in the class.

Because the class is weight limited at 6Kgs with, maximum of 26" barrel and 12x magnification scope with a Harris type bipod with no rear bag it should make it far more attainable for many club shooters and hunters who would like to shoot in competition but are put off by the potentially huge costs of the F Classes.

2013 is going to be a very interesting year for this and to see a few clubs/shooters try this in the USA and other countries would be fantastic.

http://sporting-class.com

David

Bill Leeper
01-04-2013, 10:20 PM
The evolution of "F" class has been fascinating to me. From the "any rifle, any sight, fired from any rest", as put forth by the originator, George Farquharson, it has evolved into a multitude of contentious variations. Along the way, some of the fun has gone out.
I have a personal prefernce for what I like to term "practical" rifle (maybe I could call it "P" class!). So most of my rifles look like 1960's prone rifles and weigh 12 to 14 pounds. One 308 is only 11. I have one heavy rifle for when I'm feeling serious.
I actually like the idea of the sporting rifle class and I actually think the weight should have been restricted a bit more in the original "F" class rules but they were not so here we are. Regards, Bill

VT52
01-09-2013, 06:05 PM
Lurker of sorts here, just picked up on this topic.

Here in NL F-Class is a goner as they closed down the last MoD range and we are left with only a single 300m range. Hence I make some extra trips to Bisley besides the Phoenix/Imperial/Euros to shoot F/Open. Don't know if there are any familiars on here, as I only see the forum names :) Dutchguy here with the blue/gray laminated 10kg rifle ;)

Anyways... the whole rat race of big/bigger/biggest/even biggerest is taking a toll here as well, the fun is going out of it with component prices and what it costs me to go over there all the time. We've started a 100m prone competition here to make a surrogate for F-Class as many people had F rifles and now have nothing to shoot with them. We borrowed F/O and F/TR rules as to caliber and weight, but no rear support other than your bare hand and only a bipod that is quickly collapsable and foldable (ie Harris) to keep it fair and from becoming prone Benchrest (and again a money race).

We kept the 8.25/10kg limits but we are seeing people who are going over and coming up with all sorts of things to get an edge but that were never "in the spirit" of this competition. Unlike F-Class we don't want this to become a technology testing ground to see how far we can take it, but to use good rifles yet still have the shooter be the main factor in this equasion. It's proving difficult to keep it like that and not upset a group of people. We are now in year 8 of this discipline and it's been accepted as an official discipline by our national governing body.

In short... I feel for you and see what you're trying to do.