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SmittySquared
07-03-2012, 01:57 PM
What is the best way for a person to learn and understand Benchrest shooting. Including shooting in general and all the components used, tools, etc.?? Are there threads already dedicated to this subject because I cannot find any. I do a TON of reading and research and i often find myself asking the question "why". I look at catalogs and look at all the tools used for case prep and reloading but I don't fully understand why the tools are used and how they affect accuracy. I acquired my first rifle which is a Sako .22-250 heavy barrel to be my first target practice rifle and I am already in the process of purchasing reloading equipment and brass prepping tools. I know this rifle won't be able to compete but i want to start reloading and prepping cases so that I can get this rifle to shoot it's best. This process will also give me a head start once I acquire my first benchrest rifle.

Any threads, links, advice would be great.

-Dave

mshelton
07-03-2012, 02:03 PM
Tony Boyer's book might make a good start;

http://www.rifleaccuracybook.com/

I'm pretty new myself and if I had of read it first, could have saved some headaches.

82boy
07-03-2012, 02:35 PM
Well dave your in luck being in youngstown, as kelblys is offering a beginers benchrest shooting school.
http://www.kelbly.com/school.html

If any one is interested in learning about shooting benchrest (geared for a beginer.) or the varmint-target shooter looking to optimize their rifles and loading techniques for maximum accuracy, this is the school for you. Kelblys in eastern central Ohio is hosting a school this fall. (They recommend that shooters with prior benchrest shooting experience attend more advanced shooting classes already being offered by others in the benchrest shooting community. Thier class is for beginners only.) Rifles, rests, wind flags, ammunition and rifle cleaning equipment will be provided for the students. The participants will have the option of bringing their own rifles if desired.

The sessions will run eight hours each day, and will be geared for the beginning benchrest shooter that has an interest in learning the shooting discipline, with the intentions of competing in NBRSA or IBS registered group shooting matches. The instruction will be given by Greg Walley and Jim Kelbly.(Both Greg and Jim are great shooter, and instructors.)

Instruction given on Saturday will be in a classroom style setting with question and answer sessions - an outline slide and video presentation, covering a wide variety of topics including:
Use and maintenance of benchrest target rifles
Preparation and loading of benchrest grade ammunition using custom loading tools and techniques
The application of ballistics and load development for optimum accuracy

The session on Sunday will cover hands-on shooting, benchrest technique, range condition reading and range etiquette. Rifles, rests, wind flags, ammunition and rifle cleaning equipment will be provided for the students. The participants will have the option of bringing their own rifles if desired.

The cost of the weekend class will be $250. Lunch will be provided each day. Please contact Kelbly for registration, hotel accomodations and directions..

Telephone: 330-683-4674. FAX: 330-682-7349.
Email: greg@kelbly.com, jim@kelbly.com or hobie@kelbly.com

I would also recamend Mike Ratigans book
Extreme Rifle Accuracy
http://www.extremerifleaccuracy.com/

And Glen Newicks book
Ultimate in Rifle Accuracy
http://www.amazon.ca/Ultimate-Rifle-Accuracy-Glenn-Newick/dp/0883171597

About the best tool you can use as a new shooter is to go to a match or two and wantch, talk to the shooters, and ask questions.

zippy06
07-03-2012, 09:23 PM
Dave. You are on the right track.
Pat has given you a start. Go with it.
But, get on board with the 6PPC.
Kelbly's Range and Gun shop is the "HOME of Benchrest".
The Firearms Industry Super Shoot.
Get the books(I did), talk to Benchrest Shooters(NBRSA and IBS. I did.), make some friends(I did), Attend the Greg Walley/Kelbly's Benchrest School(I did not).
But, I am up here in the "Great White North".
I met Greg this year. At the Super Shoot. Nice Chap and all.
Greg really cuts the learning curve..............Should be fun........

82boy
07-03-2012, 09:38 PM
I have shot with Greg once or twice, He is a smart guy, and can teach you a lot of things. I have also shot with Hobie many times, both can teach the most experinced BR shooter a thing or two. Anyway, Kelbly's is the Benchrest shooters Mecca.
I highy recamend it.

Ian_Owen
07-04-2012, 06:31 AM
A good book to get and read that deals with reloading for different rifles is The Precision Shooting Reloading Guide, it's available from Precision shooting...........Ian

http://www.precisionshooting.com/books.html

GerryM
07-04-2012, 09:33 AM
The best way is to Join a club that has benchrest shooters . If you ask most will help you get started.

Chism G
07-04-2012, 10:17 AM
What is the best way for a person to learn and understand Benchrest shooting. Including shooting in general and all the components used, tools, etc.?? Are there threads already dedicated to this subject because I cannot find any. I do a TON of reading and research and i often find myself asking the question "why". I look at catalogs and look at all the tools used for case prep and reloading but I don't fully understand why the tools are used and how they affect accuracy. I acquired my first rifle which is a Sako .22-250 heavy barrel to be my first target practice rifle and I am already in the process of purchasing reloading equipment and brass prepping tools. I know this rifle won't be able to compete but i want to start reloading and prepping cases so that I can get this rifle to shoot it's best. This process will also give me a head start once I acquire my first benchrest rifle.

Any threads, links, advice would be great.

-Dave




Your first rifle and just getting into reloading. As you are aware,The first and most important consideration is safety,when it involves cartridge reloading. If possible,it may be beneficial to observe and talk to an experienced reloader. He/she can point out the Why's and why not's and how the tools are used to assemble safe ammo. The precision Shooting Reloading guide recommended by Ian Owen is a good reference source for beginners. I also recommend purchasing the most current reloading manual. I prefer Hogdon. Your Sako 22-250 rifle is kinda like a gateway drug to an Addiction to Benchrest Competition. Enjoy the journey.



Glenn

mike in co
07-04-2012, 01:48 PM
lots of good advice..
in case no one mentioned it, shooting off a bench is not COMPEITIVE BENCHREST shooting.

as far as reloading, read a couple of reloading books, get the basic idea of what you are GOING to be doing.
approach max loads slowly...
there is some decent info on your round...
consider some better quality bullets
bedding the action
lightened trigger
figure to put as much money into your optics as in the rifle..or more...

wind flags
always

a 10 mph wind will move a 150 gr bullet doing 2600 fps one full inch in 100 yds.....

dont think the wind is not a factor

go to a match, ask questions, have fun

like the man said its addictive

mike in co

Patrick R
07-04-2012, 11:04 PM
Hey Dave,

Check out Lowelleville Rod & Guns Match schedual.

http://www.lowellville-rod-gun.com/2012-LRGC-CALENDAR.pdf

We have several bench Rest matches including group.

Come on out & have some fun.

333smitty
07-05-2012, 12:58 AM
Dave ,

Try usin the search engine at the upper right hand corner of the page. For instance if your looking to see what the Benchrest crowd is usin for trimmers just type in trimmer in the box and click the click the icon to the right. Check it out.


http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?72670-Case-Trimmers&highlight=trimmers

Hope this helps

SmittySquared
07-05-2012, 12:59 PM
Tony Boyer's book might make a good start;

http://www.rifleaccuracybook.com/

I'm pretty new myself and if I had of read it first, could have saved some headaches.

Thanks Shelton, thats been on my list and your comment confirmed my thoughts.

SmittySquared
07-05-2012, 01:49 PM
Thanks for the update on the school, I just emailed Jim Kelby to request registration information. I had been to the kelby's website a few times and didn't see anything regarding this class. They must have just posted this. May not be a bad idea to post this somewhere else on the forum so others know. Regarding your comment on attending matches, I actually attended the Super Shoot this year and I did learn a lot. I actually left amazed. Thanks for your suggestions.

SmittySquared
07-05-2012, 01:58 PM
Your first rifle and just getting into reloading. As you are aware,The first and most important consideration is safety,when it involves cartridge reloading. If possible,it may be beneficial to observe and talk to an experienced reloader. He/she can point out the Why's and why not's and how the tools are used to assemble safe ammo. The precision Shooting Reloading guide recommended by Ian Owen is a good reference source for beginners. I also recommend purchasing the most current reloading manual. I prefer Hogdon. Your Sako 22-250 rifle is kinda like a gateway drug to an Addiction to Benchrest Competition. Enjoy the journey.



Glenn

Glenn, thanks. I like your comment on the Sako! By the way, I do have a mentor right now that is teaching me the ropes and who i currently reload with, my father is also a benchrest shooter down in texas. You all know him as Vic Smith or 333Smitty.

SmittySquared
07-05-2012, 02:04 PM
lots of good advice..
in case no one mentioned it, shooting off a bench is not COMPEITIVE BENCHREST shooting.

as far as reloading, read a couple of reloading books, get the basic idea of what you are GOING to be doing.
approach max loads slowly...
there is some decent info on your round...
consider some better quality bullets
bedding the action
lightened trigger
figure to put as much money into your optics as in the rifle..or more...

wind flags
always

a 10 mph wind will move a 150 gr bullet doing 2600 fps one full inch in 100 yds.....

dont think the wind is not a factor

go to a match, ask questions, have fun

like the man said its addictive

mike in co

"shooting off a bench is not COMPEITIVE BENCHREST shooting", what exactly does that mean?

Right now I have a 20 power leupold scope on it and it's doing the job. I have not looked through something with a higher power yet so I can't say that this scope has to much effect on how I am shooting. I had a trigger job done on the rifle to 1 1/2# and clearanced the barrel, the stock was touching it. What exactly is bedding the action?

SmittySquared
07-05-2012, 02:07 PM
Hey Dave,

Check out Lowelleville Rod & Guns Match schedual.

http://www.lowellville-rod-gun.com/2012-LRGC-CALENDAR.pdf

We have several bench Rest matches including group.

Come on out & have some fun.

Wow, I drive by there everday and i've never really seen too much going on there. From the looks of it they have a lot of events and I will have to check it out. Are they open to the public? I've looked into joining but at the moment the high fee's just won't allow me to do it.

SGJennings
07-05-2012, 03:25 PM
Shooting off a bench is to benchrest competition as intramural flag football is to the NFL. There are no high school, college, arena football, or CFL. There is one big, flat league. You pay your money and you shoot against the best.

Competition benchrest is the crucible in which all the wallet groups, all the fudging, all the "fishing stories" are burned away. It's the score or the aggregate and the competition. That's it. No getting screwed by the referees, no one that got away, no mulligans. You end up where you end up.

You then go home and try to get better. Practice over wind flags. More attention to detail. Better equipment. The great thing is that, although you have to compete against the best, the best will talk to you and try to help.

It's terrible. It's ego crushing. It's a rush. Nothing like it.

ehparis
07-05-2012, 03:44 PM
A good book to get and read that deals with reloading for different rifles is The Precision Shooting Reloading Guide, it's available from Precision shooting...........Ian

http://www.precisionshooting.com/books.html

Here's a vote for the Benchrest Shooting Primer which is available at the same URL and contains a raft of articles on all aspects of benchrest shooting. This is also a fun read for those with benchrest experience.

mike in co
07-05-2012, 05:41 PM
( i see your dad is a br shooter so my comments are not needed....see what was said by jennings)

mike in co

mike in co
07-05-2012, 05:43 PM
not exactly true..
just not acknowledged by registered match shooters...
there is plenty of club level BENCHREST shooting around.
but other than that he is correct.
mike in co

Shooting off a bench is to benchrest competition as intramural flag football is to the NFL. There are no high school, college, arena football, or CFL. There is one big, flat league. You pay your money and you shoot against the best.

Competition benchrest is the crucible in which all the wallet groups, all the fudging, all the "fishing stories" are burned away. It's the score or the aggregate and the competition. That's it. No getting screwed by the referees, no one that got away, no mulligans. You end up where you end up.

You then go home and try to get better. Practice over wind flags. More attention to detail. Better equipment. The great thing is that, although you have to compete against the best, the best will talk to you and try to help.

It's terrible. It's ego crushing. It's a rush. Nothing like it.

Patrick R
07-05-2012, 07:40 PM
Wow, I drive by there everday and i've never really seen too much going on there. From the looks of it they have a lot of events and I will have to check it out. Are they open to the public? I've looked into joining but at the moment the high fee's just won't allow me to do it.

Lowelleville Rod & Gun is a private club.

The matches are open to the public.

July 8 is 22 LR ARA style bench Rest. 25 rounds + sighters. Starts12 noon.

July 14 is Score/modifide bench rest. 200 yard. 30 rounds + sighters. Starts 9am.

July 21 is Group bench rest. 100 & 200 yard. 20 rounds + sighters.Starts 9am.

We have 8 covered benches.

Come on out. Bring your gun. It is more fun to shoot then watch.

SmittySquared
07-06-2012, 09:47 AM
Great Explanation! However, I do have a question. You said "No getting screwed by referees". Is that really true? This has been one of my concerns that whoever is measuring your group can easily make a mistake because of how the normal process of measuring is done. I can measure a group and then someone else can measure the same group and say it's bigger or larger. From what I understand, you don't actually measure the hole, you measure a little bit outside of it.

I'm sure I just opened up a can of worms and that this has been discussed at great length before.

I see a lot of people from Ohio here!

SmittySquared
07-06-2012, 09:52 AM
I'm not sure I will be able to make it on the 8th but for sure the following weeks.

HFV
07-06-2012, 12:34 PM
In a competition or even a club (unregistered group match) you will have one person doing all group measuring. This person has his/her way of looking @ the group he is measuring. He may measure a group, he says is .209. You may measure the same group .203" What I'm getting at , is if the same person is measuring for all shooters, the scores shooters receive are pretty close. Some scorers measure (what I call ON THE BIG SIDE) b but another scorer, at a different club, may have the tendancy to measure (on THE SMALL SIDE) There are mistakes made, but I've never had a reason to believe mistakes were intentional. In a registered match, you the shooter has the option to protest a score/group size. A shooter must put up $5.00, for a re-measure. If the scorer has made an error of (over .009") your score will be ajusted (made right). The new score will be entered and the average (agg) of the targets will be re-posted. Your protest fee will be returned. If the score is not in error of .009" or more, the shooter's protest fee is kept by the range. At non-registered matches or club matches, the above will probably not be the case. In a nutshell, "getting screwed by the referees" is somethin I have not seen in benchrest, since 1986 when I started (or before).
Great Explanation! However, I do have a question. You said "No getting screwed by referees". Is that really true? This has been one of my concerns that whoever is measuring your group can easily make a mistake because of how the normal process of measuring is done. I can measure a group and then someone else can measure the same group and say it's bigger or larger. From what I understand, you don't actually measure the hole, you measure a little bit outside of it.

I'm sure I just opened up a can of worms and that this has been discussed at great length before.

I see a lot of people from Ohio here!

SmittySquared
07-10-2012, 07:28 AM
Thank you for explaining that to me



In a competition or even a club (unregistered group match) you will have one person doing all group measuring. This person has his/her way of looking @ the group he is measuring. He may measure a group, he says is .209. You may measure the same group .203" What I'm getting at , is if the same person is measuring for all shooters, the scores shooters receive are pretty close. Some scorers measure (what I call ON THE BIG SIDE) b but another scorer, at a different club, may have the tendancy to measure (on THE SMALL SIDE) There are mistakes made, but I've never had a reason to believe mistakes were intentional. In a registered match, you the shooter has the option to protest a score/group size. A shooter must put up $5.00, for a re-measure. If the scorer has made an error of (over .009") your score will be ajusted (made right). The new score will be entered and the average (agg) of the targets will be re-posted. Your protest fee will be returned. If the score is not in error of .009" or more, the shooter's protest fee is kept by the range. At non-registered matches or club matches, the above will probably not be the case. In a nutshell, "getting screwed by the referees" is somethin I have not seen in benchrest, since 1986 when I started (or before).