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Andy Cross
05-14-2012, 05:06 AM
As I mentioned in a post some months ago I am rebuilding my trusty old 222 rem 700. Trued and sleeved action - HV NBRSA contour barrel - Already has a rem BR trigger - McMillan carbon fibre stock. It shouldn't be long now.

A friend told me oh don't spend that sort of money on a Rem just build a new one on a modern action. I questioned why. His reply was the resale value will be better.

May be I have a different thought process going on in my head but if I wanted to invest I wouldn't put the money into a rifle. Firearms are for the most part a bit like a car a liability. They are convenient but they will only cost you money. If a rifle built on a modern action can be resold for a few hundred bucks more so what. To my way of thinking if money is that tight then you probably couldn't afford to go shooting in the first place.

Does any one else on the forum think like my mate ?

Andy.

David Halblom
05-14-2012, 06:00 AM
Andy,

If you own a particular action already, and you are doing most or all the work yourself, use what you have. The re-sale value is of minimal significance.

BUT.... if you are building a NEW rifle, especially if you plan on or are thinking about playing the benchrest game, then you would be well advised to buy a custom action and start from scratch. If you should find that the sport does not interest you and you need to cash out, the custom actioned custom rifle will hold at least it's component value. Maybe not the added labor $$$, but a $1250 BAT will sell for $1250 at least even if you have shot it for 5 years. A Rem 700 action is only worth $300, no matter what you have had done to it. And what you had to have done to it ($$$$) to make it "kind of" run like the BAT is where you lose out using a factory action to start a target rifle project

None of us are looking at our toys as investments. But it really does not make sense to sink a whole bunch of money into a rifle that only a very small percentage of "value" can be re-claimed down the road.

ReedG
05-14-2012, 07:55 AM
David's advice is very good. If you have some sort of nostalgic "connection" to having a period rifle with a Rem. action, then go for it. I have one of those. But if you are in or thinking of getting into the BR game, my advice is to find a good used rifle with the action and stock you like. If necessary, refurb it with a new barrel and maybe refinish the stock and you should be all set. Other than normal barrel wear and stock dings a good custom rig should be good for who knows, 100,000 rounds. The used rig cuts through all the waiting time and lessens the original labor costs. If the BR game gets into your blood, there's plenty of time to "build a new one".

Just an added thought, as I also have one of those, but I don't believe you will ever be able to shoot competitively in today's BR world with a trusty old .222.

Andy Cross
05-14-2012, 08:54 AM
I am in the process of building a new 6 PPC switch gun on a drop port panda for BR shooting. Even when fitted with a March scope I don't think it is a lot of money. The reason I accurised the 222 Rem 700 is because I already own it and the rebuild is quite a lot less than building a new one. It seemed like throwing it away because the barrel got shot out.

The 222 is ten years old but I don't think in ten years or so the panda will be worth much more than three or four hundred bucks in any way. It's all nickel and dime stuff really and I couldn't really relate to what my mate was saying.

Andy.

Jerry W
05-14-2012, 10:04 AM
Coincidentally, I dusted off my old XP-100 in .222 last week. I converted it to a rifle and accurized it and it was my first bench gun 7 or 8 years ago. Since I started shooting my PPC, I hadn't fired it in maybe 6 years and it still shoots great. The lack of recoil, compared to the PPC, is a real pleasure too. I think I will restock it with something more up to date and shoot it in some of our local matches.

I would have to disagree about the Panda, though. Ten years from now it will still be worth nearly as much as today. It will just be broken in. You're right though, in the big scheme it's all nickel and dime. Have fun and don't worry about it.

Jerry

kansasvet
05-14-2012, 12:25 PM
There is nothing wrong with owning a rifle simply because you like it. I have heard the old story that it is an "investment" to the point of being tired of it. In my opinion, if it is an "investment" it must be kept in as bought condition, new or used, and most importantly it must be for sale if a reasonalble profit should present itself.
I have Remingtons that I have owned since the 70's which I could sell for much more than I paid for them, but I use them and like them and have the money to buy any additional rifles I want without the sale of a presently owned rifle.
When I set up a rifle it is designated varmint, big game, etc. I do not believe in the concept of having one rifle for mice to elephants.

David Halblom
05-14-2012, 08:57 PM
The 222 is ten years old but I don't think in ten years or so the panda will be worth much more than three or four hundred bucks in any way. It's all nickel and dime stuff really and I couldn't really relate to what my mate was saying.

Andy.[/QUOTE]

In actuality Andy, the Panda will be worth about the same as what you paid for it. You really can't wear one out. The Rem on the otherhand would be worn out.

David

Andy Cross
05-14-2012, 10:56 PM
I guess if someone was to start building actions using some weird alloy that was twice as strong as steel and a similar weight to carbon fibre and helped reduce the aggs by another 20 thou then the pandas and the like would become redundant and worth as much as a remington. There might even be such an alloy but you probably need a military budget to buy a billet.
Andy.

Andy Cross
05-16-2012, 03:22 AM
[QUOTE=David Halblom;675592]Andy,

If you own a particular action already, and you are doing most or all the work yourself, use what you have. The re-sale value is of minimal significance.

BUT.... if you are building a NEW rifle, especially if you plan on or are thinking about playing the benchrest game, then you would be well advised to buy a custom action and start from scratch. If you should find that the sport does not interest you and you need to cash out, the custom actioned custom rifle will hold at least it's component value. Maybe not the added labor $$$, but a $1250 BAT will sell for $1250 at least even if you have shot it for 5 years. A Rem 700 action is only worth $300, no matter what you have had done to it. And what you had to have done to it ($$$$) to make it "kind of" run like the BAT is where you lose out using a factory action to start a target rifle project

QUOTE]

I was cleaning out one of the filing cabinets yesterday and found the receipt for the Rem 700 222 varmint special Brand new it cost me $380 back in 1978. If it's worth say $300 now it means that it has only depreciated 80 bucks in 34 years. By rights it should be worth nothing now. Why would some one interested in buying an action and trigger like this pay $300 for it if that's what you think it's worth ?
Andy.

JerrySharrett
05-16-2012, 06:19 AM
I am in the process of building a new 6 PPC switch gun on a drop port panda for BR shooting. Andy.

Andy, this is a minor aside, but a drop port Panda? Is his something new?

GerryM
05-16-2012, 07:11 AM
Something you should know'
Allie Euber won most of his points with a sleeved Remington 700.
Yes they are a bit outdated But done properly they will shoot right along side of a custom action.
The only draw back was Weight. It was tough makeing 10.1/2 pound with a sleeved action.
Now with the new super light weight stocks it shouldn't be a problem.
Some people just want to get into your wallet for $$$$$

chino69
05-16-2012, 08:01 AM
Andy,
I have several Remington actions that have been trued, bolt sleeved, firing pin hole bushed, etc. I could care less about the re-sale value because I don't view firearms as an investment. I also have several custom actions. Both actions shoot better than I am capable of shooting. When you consider the cost of what it takes to get a Remington action up to the standards and specs. of a custom action the money spent is nearly equal. The conventional school of thought is to buy the custom action from the beginning and should you choose to sell it, down the road, you'll be able to recoup some of your original money.

seblambang
05-16-2012, 09:29 AM
Andy, this is a minor aside, but a drop port Panda? Is his something new?

+1.

I asked James if he could make a drop port Panda for me several years ago but he said no. (I forgot the reason though).

seb.

JerrySharrett
05-16-2012, 12:09 PM
+1.

I asked James if he could make a drop port Panda for me several years ago but he said no. (I forgot the reason though).

seb.
The Pandas have vertical locking lugs when the bolt is closed. It would require a different bolt design to do a drop port I think.

Seb, you and the Mrs coming to the Super Shoot?

seblambang
05-16-2012, 01:03 PM
Jerry sir, how are you? It's been long time since I met you at the SS.... 2005?

Re; bolt head/locking lugs.
I suspect that Rem style extractor (with the claw' at 6 o'clock when the bolt is open) could do the job - with the current cone bolt head, but I might be wrong because I've never made experiment to build a drop port, until now.
James told me about 'speed' thing (related to bolt cycle), or something else(?), which unfortunately I forgot at this moment.

Too bad (again), that we can't make it to the SS this year! Sure I want, but Lily has been 'traumatic' with the temperature, LOL. (Sunny Ohio, eh!:D I really missed it!).
I will see if I can make it next year, or 2014. (I plan to build another gun, and it must be a Kelbly's).

Good Luck at the SS sir!
seb.

ehparis
05-16-2012, 05:09 PM
There is nothing wrong with owning a rifle simply because you like it. I have heard the old story that it is an "investment" to the point of being tired of it. In my opinion, if it is an "investment" it must be kept in as bought condition, new or used, and most importantly it must be for sale if a reasonalble profit should present itself.
I have Remingtons that I have owned since the 70's which I could sell for much more than I paid for them, but I use them and like them and have the money to buy any additional rifles I want without the sale of a presently owned rifle.
When I set up a rifle it is designated varmint, big game, etc. I do not believe in the concept of having one rifle for mice to elephants.

Ditto this. I bought my Remington 700 5R in .223 just to play around with and I have more than 500 rounds of "experiments" down the barrel and am really enjoying myself making this thing shoot. The resale value (a 5R means it has a custom shop 5R barrel) is substantially less than what I paid for it but I bought it to shoot and have fun with not as an investment.

Andy Cross
05-16-2012, 10:53 PM
+1.

I asked James if he could make a drop port Panda for me several years ago but he said no. (I forgot the reason though).

seb.

The drop port panda is real and is in transit to me as I type. From what JK tells me they make the action up to a certain point and then send it to a guy named stick at S&S engineering to finish it. They have made several of these now and they work well on accounts from people who use them. I wanted to try out a drop port action on the new rig but I was told I may die from old age before I see a viper drop port.
Andy

seblambang
05-17-2012, 12:33 AM
Andy, thanks for the info. I'll contact James soon. Sure I want one, I plan to build a switch-barrel switch-caliber again in the near future for matches in the States.

Could you take & share some pics of the action, please? I would like to know about the bolt head & extractor detail and the cutout on the bottom.

seb.

Andy Cross
05-17-2012, 02:28 AM
The action will be delivered to the rifle smith because I don't have the permit to acquire yet. In fact I won't obtain it until the rifle is almost complete. The permit will only last 3 months.

But as soon as I can I will visit him and take a couple of shots of it.

Andy.

JerrySharrett
05-17-2012, 07:03 AM
The action will be delivered to the rifle smith because I don't have the permit to acquire yet. In fact I won't obtain it until the rifle is almost complete. The permit will only last 3 months.

But as soon as I can I will visit him and take a couple of shots of it.

Andy.
Sounds great. I'll be at Kelblys this afternoon and will see what a drop port Panda looks like, (I was told that I was wrong about the lug placement on a Viper).

Trouble is I bought two Pandas at Kelblys last year and I don't need another.....but I do have a Tucker stock that was made for a drop port.

RJM
05-17-2012, 07:36 AM
"because I don't have the permit to acquire yet. In fact I won't obtain it until the rifle is almost complete. The permit will only last 3 months."

Andy,
Don't have the permit & it lasts only 3 months? Where are you?
Regards,
Ron

Andy Cross
05-17-2012, 07:50 PM
In Australia the firearms laws are that if you want to own a firearm you have to get a licence. To get the licence you need to prove a genuine reason. e.g. I live on a ranch and need one for vermin destruction or I am a member of such and such a rifle gun club and I need a firearm to compete etc. Provided you pass the background check e.g. you don't have an arrest or conviction against you then you get the licence which needs to be renewed every 5 years again prooving you still have a genuine reason. Liceincing can take a couple of months and costs $.

Once the licence has been procured you need to apply for a permit to acquire. That can take about six weeks. You pay for each PTA as well. That permit is only good for 3 months. So you don't get that until the firearm is ready to pick up. But wait there's more. Once you submit the PTA to the rifle smith or dealer you have to wait for the two week cooling off period to elapse before you get your hands on it.

The laws vary from state to state with western australia being hardest of all. But all firearms need to be stored in an approved gun safe and in the atate Queensland the fireing mechanism cannot be stored with the firearm. A nusance when it isn't a bolt action. That's why you will never see a swap meet or be able to sell a rifle at a match. In fact all private sales need the owner of the firearm to fill out the disposal papers, the purchaser to acquire the PTA then the firearm has to be brokered by a licenced dealer. You pay a storage fee while the cooling off period elapses before the new owner can take it. I hate to think of what BR shooters had to go through when they held the world BR championships here in about 2001 and I think we have them again in 2013. I wouldn't even consider it.
Andy.