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llogan7708
04-28-2012, 05:33 PM
I'm asking for opinions and experiences with various primers. I'm shooting a 6mmPPC and have used both Remington 7 1/2 BR's and CCI BR-4's. For the same accuracy, I have to drop my loads by 3/10's of a grain when I use the BR-4's instead of the 7 1/2 BR's. So obviously, the CCI's are hotter. I just picked up some Federal 205M's.

Where do the Federals fall into the comparison? Hotter that the CCI's, weaker, same as the 7 1/2's, whatever. And, why is the Federal so popular with the Benchrest crowd?

Les

David Halblom
04-28-2012, 07:59 PM
I'm asking for opinions and experiences with various primers. I'm shooting a 6mmPPC and have used both Remington 7 1/2 BR's and CCI BR-4's. For the same accuracy, I have to drop my loads by 3/10's of a grain when I use the BR-4's instead of the 7 1/2 BR's. So obviously, the CCI's are hotter. I just picked up some Federal 205M's.

Where do the Federals fall into the comparison? Hotter that the CCI's, weaker, same as the 7 1/2's, whatever. And, why is the Federal so popular with the Benchrest crowd?

Les
1) Remingtons are inconsistent
2) CCI-BR primers are the hottest of the bunch. BUT>>>> they also have the hardest cup. As a result, on a lot of BR actions, they are also inconsistent, due to the minimum springs on a lot of BR actions.
3) Feds and W-W tend to be relatively soft cups. They are as a result the choice of most BR shooters.

IF, and I must STRESS IF you have a strong firing pin and long falling firing pin, almost ANY primer will probably work. But most BR actions are sprung at a minimum spring weight and have a fall that JUST gets the job done. As a result, you need a soft primer cup to get consistent ignition.

llogan7708
04-28-2012, 11:43 PM
@David,

I was not aware of that. Thanks for the information!

Louis.J
04-29-2012, 12:41 AM
The below link might be helpful and as you will see from the Brisance pictures at the bottom of the page the CCI are definitely not the hottest by quite a margin.

http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2009/06/primers-small-rifle-primer-study.html

J.Louis

goodgrouper
04-29-2012, 01:30 AM
The below link might be helpful and as you will see from the Brisance pictures at the bottom of the page the CCI are definitely not the hottest by quite a margin.


That is the BR-4 primer shown which is the milder of the CCI primers. The CCI 450 primer is on par with the Rem and the 400 isn't much tamer. They're both hot when compared to the 205.
For more pics, check out the Benchrest Shooting Primer chapter on primer comparisons.

GerryM
04-29-2012, 08:40 AM
You notice the PMC? Hard cups Flash is between the Br4 and the federal.
Very consistant primers Now they are the Tula brand SR MAG . Try some .

ehkempf
04-29-2012, 09:34 AM
1) Remingtons are inconsistent
2) CCI-BR primers are the hottest of the bunch. BUT>>>> they also have the hardest cup. As a result, on a lot of BR actions, they are also inconsistent, due to the minimum springs on a lot of BR actions.
3) Feds and W-W tend to be relatively soft cups. They are as a result the choice of most BR shooters.

IF, and I must STRESS IF you have a strong firing pin and long falling firing pin, almost ANY primer will probably work. But most BR actions are sprung at a minimum spring weight and have a fall that JUST gets the job done. As a result, you need a soft primer cup to get consistent ignition.

David,

I am a little confused by your info above and the pictures in the Benchrest Shooting Primer and the link in one of the above posts. From both of those, it seems that the flame produced by the Fed 205M and the CCI BR4 are fairly close in size and intensity, and that the Rem. 7 1/2 is much larger flame, althought that may not indicate a higher intensity. As I learned in chemistry, far to many years ago, it is not the size of the flame that is important, but rather it's color, which you cannot make out from the black and white photos. I have also read on this site and others that the Rem 7 1/2 are know for their harder cup, when compaired to the Fed and CCI.


Ed Kempf

GerryM
04-29-2012, 10:04 AM
Ed what he said was 7.1/2 are incosistant. The flash brisence is very high on most lots of 7 1/2 primers and the cups are also hard. The 7 1/2 was really the rem Mag primer when it came out.
So far the best primer we have tried are CCI br 4 Fed 205 and 205 m {soft cups} The wolf, PMC, Tula Mag hard cups and very consistant. Those are the 3 I use and my own best results are with the CCIbR 4 and the wolf.
A lot of actions have been modified with a shorter spring, so they will cock easy for speed shooting.
I guess thats why a lot of the Br shooters use the 205 and 205M

caroby
04-29-2012, 11:07 AM
Not to be combative......

But I've had great success with >current< made Rem 7 1/2's From about 2009... Hotter than most but IMOP VERY consistent..
Several Grands from them... Older lotts... I don't know...

What I do know is the Wolf SRM are MILD.... In some cases too mild (ball powder).... Just fine for BR single base powders.
The BR4 are similar to Fed 205 / 205M but less sensitive.... IMOP...

My >Go Too< primers are FED 205 /205M and Rem 7 1/2..... The Win WSR and Wolf SRM... Are close second in BR...

cale

ehkempf
04-29-2012, 11:21 AM
Gerry,

So if I combine what you have said and what David was talking about the choice of primer is really an action specific choice. From my experience, I own only Remington 40X and 700 based actions, I seem to get better accuracy results with the Fed and CCI benchrest primers. But I also get cratering (not flattened), the Rem 7 Ĺ donít show this as much.

Ed

GerryM
04-29-2012, 03:12 PM
Feds are softer. Your Rem 700,s Ed are really pretty siff springed. You know I have several.
The primers aren't action specific''' Just that some rifles have been modified with lighter springs. some Rems too.
The result is less hit but it's ok just enough so the rifle doesn't jump when you dry fire it.
These are set up for benchrest speed shooting. Most of the actins come in with a pretty good springs they are modified later by the shooters, or a good smith The reason being Easier bolt lift when speed shooting or laying prone.

GerryM
04-29-2012, 03:18 PM
Not to defame Remington primer but from lot to lot they are inconsistant. I use them in rifles that aren't going to be used for that small group. The cups run hard to soft at times. (I cans say that wolf were mild actually they delivered more consistant groups and extreme spreads {less then 7 ft} Just by changing the primer.
Some people hate them because they are a tad bigger in diameter like the 7 1/2 . A crush fit is necessay to get performance. Some people compllained about mis fires with the wolf PMC Tulas But thats because they didn't crush seat the primer. Any primer may misfire if you don't seat it all of the way into the case.

llogan7708
05-02-2012, 12:10 AM
I always thought the BR-4 was hotter than the 7 1/2 BR. I base this opinon on the need of 3/10gr more powder required to get the same results as with the BR-4. Last weekend, I tested the 205m. It required 2/10gr more powder than the 7 1/2 BR, but shot a very low number......at least for me. I plan on confirming my results this week. If the results are the same, I'll be putting all the other primers in my AR-15 rounds to shoot up on Tactical Tuesdays (buddy and I play Army, although he is Green Beret).

Thanks everyone for all the information.